Praise the Lord | TBN

Praise the Lord

Watch Praise the Lord
February 5, 2016
1:27:01

Mark Rutland hosts Wayne Hilsden, Jentezen Franklin, Erwin McManus and music by Jentezen Franklin and Free Chapel

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Praise the Lord

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  • - male announcer: From coast
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  • to coast, and around the world,
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  • it's time to praise the Lord!
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  • Praise the Lord
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  • let every nation rejoice!
  • 00:00:10.130 --> 00:00:13.130
  • Praise the Lord
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  • with one mighty voice!
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  • - announcer: "Praise the Lord"
  • 00:00:19.150 --> 00:00:20.070
  • covers the major
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  • Christian events in America
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  • and across the world,
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  • from the heart of Europe...
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  • To the tip of Africa...
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  • Praise the Lord
  • 00:00:35.120 --> 00:00:36.250
  • Praise the Lord
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  • - announcer: From the centers
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  • of Asia...
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  • Gloria a Dios
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  • - announcer: Welcome to
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  • the number one Christian network
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  • in all the world.
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  • Joining us from Atlanta,
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  • Georgia, are President
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  • and Co-Founder of King of Kings
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  • Community in Jerusalem,
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  • Pastor Wayne Hilsden;
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  • Founder of Mosaic,
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  • Erwin McManus;
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  • Senior Pastor of Free Chapel,
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  • Pastor Jentezen Franklin.
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  • Ready to take your calls,
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  • prayer partners
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  • Praise the Lord
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  • let every nation rejoice!
  • 00:01:35.190 --> 00:01:38.190
  • Praise the Lord
  • 00:01:38.190 --> 00:01:41.050
  • with one mighty voice!
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  • Praise the Lord!
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  • Praise the Lord!
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  • Praise...
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  • - announcer: Now your host,
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  • Founder, President, and Senior
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  • Pastor of Global Servants,
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  • [audience applauding]
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  • - Dr. Mark Rutland: Welcome,
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  • welcome, welcome.
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  • And praise the Lord.
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  • It's not just the name of this
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  • show, it is actually that to
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  • which we are summoned by God
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  • himself, to praise the Lord.
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  • You're going to see some
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  • wonderful people tonight.
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  • I believe this is an array of
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  • some of the most creative and
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  • talented guests that you have
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  • ever seen on "Praise The Lord"
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  • and I'm delighted that you have
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  • chosen to join us for this.
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  • I have a Word for you now.
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  • I want you to listen to this
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  • passage of Scripture from
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  • the 8th verse.
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  • It's so eloquently worded.
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  • I love the creative beauty
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  • of the Word of God.
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  • Listen to this verse.
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  • "The one who made the Pleiades
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  • and Orion, who turns the deep
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  • darkness into dawn, who turns
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  • the waters of the sea and pours
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  • them out on the land."
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  • What a wonderful, wonderful
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  • passage of Scripture,
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  • so beautifully written.
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  • But listen to the heart of it.
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  • "The one who turns
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  • the deep darkness into dawn."
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  • I don't know what kind of
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  • darkness you may be facing.
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  • I don't know what you're going
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  • through right now but I know
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  • the one who turns darkness
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  • into dawn.
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  • I believe that God himself is
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  • the one that's going to bless
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  • you in this program tonight.
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  • And that passage ends, Daniel
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  • chapter 2, verse 8, it ends
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  • with this, "He is the Lord."
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  • And he's going to turn your
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  • darkness into dawn, amen?
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  • We have some wonderful pastors
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  • who have brought many of their
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  • congregations.
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  • Now, I'm gonna introduce them
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  • to you.
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  • We have with us, Bishop Charles
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  • and Pastor Lori Mackie from
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  • Keepin' It Real Lighthouse
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  • in Alpharetta, Georgia.
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  • Pastor Jimmy and Karen Copeland
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  • from Mustard Seed Faith
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  • Ministries in Covington,
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  • Georgia.
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  • Pastor Leela Brown Waller from
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  • Bethel African Methodist
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  • Episcopal in Acworth, Georgia.
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  • And Dr. Deborah and Minister
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  • Vernon Isom from Begin Again
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  • Ministries and Aaron's Beard
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  • School of the Prophetic in
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  • Fairburn, Georgia.
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  • Pastor Kurt and Treisa Lee from
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  • Kingdom Covenant Family
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  • Ministries in Fayetteville,
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  • Georgia.
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  • Pastor Herman and Lashunda
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  • Ellison, Temple of Faith
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  • Ministries, Decatur, Georgia.
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  • And Pastor Ross Heath,
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  • Faith Tabernacle East in
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  • Stone Mountain, Georgia.
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  • One of my very favorite people
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  • in all the world is here with
  • 00:05:01.060 --> 00:05:02.150
  • not only the music.
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  • In a few moments, I'm gonna be
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  • interviewing him and it's an
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  • honor to do so.
  • 00:05:06.020 --> 00:05:07.070
  • But right now, will you please
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  • greet Jentezen Franklin
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  • with "Oh, Happy Day."
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  • [music]
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  • [music]
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  • [music]
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  • [music]
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  • Oh, happy day.
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  • [music]
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  • Oh, happy day.
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  • Oh, happy day.
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  • He taught me how
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  • to watch,
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  • watch and pray,
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  • watch and pray,
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  • and live rejoicing
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  • every, every day,
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  • every day.
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  • He taught me how
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  • to watch,
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  • watch and pray,
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  • watch and pray,
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  • and live rejoicing
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  • every, every day,
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  • every, every day,
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  • [music]
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  • [music]
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  • [music]
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  • [music]
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  • [music]
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  • [music]
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  • Oh, happy day.
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  • Oh, happy day.
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  • When Jesus comes.
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  • When Jesus comes.
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  • When Jesus washed.
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  • Oh, happy day.
  • 00:09:09.170 --> 00:09:12.170
  • Oh, happy day.
  • 00:09:12.170 --> 00:09:15.210
  • [music]
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  • [audience applauding]
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  • - Mark: "Oh Happy Day."
  • 00:09:29.020 --> 00:09:30.220
  • What a wonderfully
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  • talented person.
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  • I tell you, I--every time
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  • I see Jentezen, every time
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  • I watch him, he's so articulate,
  • 00:09:36.070 --> 00:09:38.230
  • such a great preacher,
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  • such a musician, slim, handsome,
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  • it just makes me wanna slap him.
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  • Jentezen, welcome.
  • 00:09:46.270 --> 00:09:48.000
  • So glad to see you.
  • 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:49.090
  • - Jentezen Franklin: You're not
  • 00:09:49.090 --> 00:09:50.010
  • supposed to lie on Christian TV.
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  • Thank you.
  • 00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:52.140
  • I'm catching my breath.
  • 00:09:52.140 --> 00:09:53.230
  • I'm getting old.
  • 00:09:53.230 --> 00:09:54.250
  • I need a oxygen tank.
  • 00:09:54.250 --> 00:09:56.150
  • - Mark: Well, this is great.
  • 00:09:56.150 --> 00:09:57.090
  • I get to interview you for
  • 00:09:57.090 --> 00:09:58.090
  • a change.
  • 00:09:58.090 --> 00:09:59.070
  • - Jentezen: I'm so honored to
  • 00:09:59.070 --> 00:09:59.280
  • be here with you.
  • 00:09:59.280 --> 00:10:00.260
  • - Mark: I'm glad to see you,
  • 00:10:00.260 --> 00:10:01.210
  • man.
  • 00:10:01.210 --> 00:10:02.090
  • Jentezen and I persecute the
  • 00:10:02.090 --> 00:10:04.030
  • saints together at Free Chapel
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  • and we're having a blast up
  • 00:10:05.140 --> 00:10:07.080
  • there.
  • 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:08.050
  • - Jentezen: We really are.
  • 00:10:08.050 --> 00:10:09.180
  • You know, we're on a, with many
  • 00:10:09.180 --> 00:10:11.090
  • people, a corporate fast, a
  • 00:10:11.090 --> 00:10:12.280
  • 21-day fast.
  • 00:10:12.280 --> 00:10:14.280
  • And we heard a message that
  • 00:10:14.280 --> 00:10:17.120
  • Dr. Rutland preached actually
  • 00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:19.040
  • and the Lord's Prayer but,
  • 00:10:21.190 --> 00:10:22.290
  • specifically, your end of it,
  • 00:10:22.290 --> 00:10:24.270
  • the Lord's Prayer that
  • 00:10:24.270 --> 00:10:26.040
  • impacted us.
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  • I prayed that prayer today and
  • 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:28.220
  • I know all of us, that book,
  • 00:10:28.220 --> 00:10:30.270
  • "21 Seconds That
  • 00:10:30.270 --> 00:10:32.070
  • Can Change Your World,"
  • 00:10:32.070 --> 00:10:33.170
  • is changing so many lives.
  • 00:10:33.170 --> 00:10:35.170
  • And you never know what a day
  • 00:10:35.170 --> 00:10:36.290
  • will bring but when we pray that
  • 00:10:36.290 --> 00:10:38.170
  • prayer and I know many people
  • 00:10:38.170 --> 00:10:40.050
  • are fasting and praying on the
  • 00:10:40.050 --> 00:10:41.250
  • We're hearing, Dr. Rutland,
  • 00:10:43.270 --> 00:10:44.230
  • reports from all over the world.
  • 00:10:44.230 --> 00:10:46.080
  • - Mark: Praise God.
  • 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:47.010
  • - Jentezen: Of what God is
  • 00:10:47.010 --> 00:10:47.250
  • doing in people.
  • 00:10:47.250 --> 00:10:48.270
  • I did a little text yesterday
  • 00:10:48.270 --> 00:10:51.100
  • and just put on social media,
  • 00:10:51.100 --> 00:10:53.140
  • "If you're fasting, let us hear
  • 00:10:53.140 --> 00:10:54.260
  • from you in a foreign nation."
  • 00:10:54.260 --> 00:10:56.120
  • And we heard from about 60
  • 00:10:56.120 --> 00:10:58.170
  • nations of people who were on
  • 00:10:58.170 --> 00:11:01.000
  • the 21-day fast, praying the
  • 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:02.160
  • Lord's Prayer.
  • 00:11:02.160 --> 00:11:04.000
  • - Mark: That's wonderful.
  • 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:05.040
  • Praise God.
  • 00:11:05.040 --> 00:11:07.060
  • Wonderful.
  • 00:11:07.060 --> 00:11:08.120
  • this will show everybody, this
  • 00:11:08.120 --> 00:11:09.210
  • will prove to everybody, that I
  • 00:11:09.210 --> 00:11:11.010
  • have absolutely no control over
  • 00:11:11.010 --> 00:11:13.000
  • Jentezen Franklin because in the
  • 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:14.160
  • green room we just discussed
  • 00:11:14.160 --> 00:11:16.130
  • this and he said, "I'm gonna
  • 00:11:16.130 --> 00:11:17.220
  • bring your book up."
  • 00:11:17.220 --> 00:11:18.220
  • And I said, "This is about you.
  • 00:11:18.220 --> 00:11:19.290
  • It's not about my book."
  • 00:11:19.290 --> 00:11:21.170
  • And immediately, he disobeyed
  • 00:11:21.170 --> 00:11:22.290
  • me, right on camera.
  • 00:11:22.290 --> 00:11:25.220
  • Well, Jentezen, how long have
  • 00:11:25.220 --> 00:11:27.010
  • you been at Free Chapel?
  • 00:11:27.010 --> 00:11:28.070
  • You're the Senior Pastor there.
  • 00:11:28.070 --> 00:11:29.080
  • You've been there how many
  • 00:11:29.080 --> 00:11:30.140
  • years?
  • 00:11:30.140 --> 00:11:31.020
  • - Jentezen: I think about 26
  • 00:11:31.020 --> 00:11:32.220
  • years, something like that.
  • 00:11:32.220 --> 00:11:34.140
  • Twenty-six, twenty-seven years.
  • 00:11:34.140 --> 00:11:35.120
  • - Mark: Wow, what a ride, what
  • 00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:36.040
  • a ride.
  • 00:11:36.040 --> 00:11:36.270
  • It's unbelievable what's
  • 00:11:36.270 --> 00:11:37.250
  • happened there now.
  • 00:11:37.250 --> 00:11:38.190
  • - Jentezen: It really is, you
  • 00:11:38.190 --> 00:11:39.170
  • know.
  • 00:11:39.170 --> 00:11:40.190
  • "Despise not the day of small
  • 00:11:40.190 --> 00:11:42.000
  • beginnings."
  • 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:43.010
  • I know when we went there, we
  • 00:11:43.010 --> 00:11:45.040
  • just had just a real vision to
  • 00:11:45.180 --> 00:11:48.180
  • believe that God could raise up
  • 00:11:48.180 --> 00:11:50.130
  • a local church that could impact
  • 00:11:50.130 --> 00:11:51.280
  • that region.
  • 00:11:51.280 --> 00:11:53.030
  • And it's almost like the
  • 00:11:53.030 --> 00:11:54.030
  • community has grown around us
  • 00:11:54.030 --> 00:11:55.240
  • 'cause there wasn't a lot in
  • 00:11:55.240 --> 00:11:56.200
  • Gainesville but, you know, it
  • 00:11:56.200 --> 00:11:58.050
  • seems like all of Atlanta has
  • 00:11:58.050 --> 00:11:59.130
  • gone North and we were just so
  • 00:11:59.130 --> 00:12:01.240
  • thankful and so humbled that God
  • 00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:04.010
  • has used that church and given
  • 00:12:04.010 --> 00:12:05.270
  • us a platform to reach a lot of
  • 00:12:05.270 --> 00:12:07.190
  • people.
  • 00:12:07.190 --> 00:12:09.010
  • - Mark: Really?
  • 00:12:09.010 --> 00:12:09.190
  • A worldwide footprint.
  • 00:12:09.190 --> 00:12:10.190
  • Not just the out--you have
  • 00:12:10.190 --> 00:12:12.030
  • the campus in Orange County,
  • 00:12:12.030 --> 00:12:14.070
  • California, in Irvine, you have
  • 00:12:14.070 --> 00:12:16.130
  • the campus in Spartanburg, South
  • 00:12:16.130 --> 00:12:17.270
  • Carolina, the campus in Gwynedd
  • 00:12:17.270 --> 00:12:19.210
  • County, Georgia, and of course,
  • 00:12:19.210 --> 00:12:21.020
  • the headquarters church there in
  • 00:12:21.020 --> 00:12:22.070
  • Gainesville, and a worldwide
  • 00:12:22.070 --> 00:12:24.030
  • television outreach.
  • 00:12:24.030 --> 00:12:25.100
  • It's amazing what God has done.
  • 00:12:25.100 --> 00:12:26.280
  • - Jentezen: Well, we're so
  • 00:12:26.280 --> 00:12:27.260
  • thankful to TBN for giving us
  • 00:12:27.260 --> 00:12:29.160
  • that opportunity, you know.
  • 00:12:29.160 --> 00:12:30.280
  • I actually, I'm playing the sax
  • 00:12:30.280 --> 00:12:32.220
  • tonight and people maybe--some
  • 00:12:32.220 --> 00:12:34.160
  • people don't even know I play
  • 00:12:34.160 --> 00:12:36.120
  • music.
  • 00:12:36.120 --> 00:12:37.160
  • But I was a musician before I
  • 00:12:37.160 --> 00:12:38.240
  • was a preacher.
  • 00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:39.180
  • I used to play piano for my dad
  • 00:12:39.180 --> 00:12:41.170
  • in his church.
  • 00:12:41.170 --> 00:12:42.190
  • I used to play--I started on the
  • 00:12:42.190 --> 00:12:43.230
  • drums.
  • 00:12:43.230 --> 00:12:44.270
  • And then I went to bass guitar.
  • 00:12:44.270 --> 00:12:47.250
  • Played bass for a little while,
  • 00:12:47.250 --> 00:12:49.020
  • believe it or not, then I went
  • 00:12:49.020 --> 00:12:50.040
  • and played piano.
  • 00:12:50.040 --> 00:12:52.080
  • And then my mother bought me a
  • 00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:53.090
  • saxophone.
  • 00:12:53.090 --> 00:12:54.170
  • And my dad said I sounded like a
  • 00:12:54.170 --> 00:12:56.140
  • dying goose when I first got the
  • 00:12:56.140 --> 00:12:58.140
  • saxophone.
  • 00:12:58.140 --> 00:12:59.030
  • So all of you parents who have
  • 00:12:59.030 --> 00:13:01.030
  • kids in band, don't give up on
  • 00:13:01.030 --> 00:13:03.040
  • 'em.
  • 00:13:03.040 --> 00:13:03.240
  • They may end up hitting some
  • 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:05.110
  • good notes for Jesus one of
  • 00:13:05.110 --> 00:13:06.260
  • these days.
  • 00:13:06.260 --> 00:13:08.040
  • But it has a rough beginning.
  • 00:13:08.040 --> 00:13:09.220
  • And you know, and I took lessons
  • 00:13:09.250 --> 00:13:12.250
  • all my life for about 12 years,
  • 00:13:12.250 --> 00:13:15.010
  • all the way up, and always loved
  • 00:13:15.010 --> 00:13:17.010
  • music, though, Dr. Rutland.
  • 00:13:17.010 --> 00:13:18.120
  • You know, I think if you're a
  • 00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:19.160
  • private worshiper, you'll be a
  • 00:13:19.160 --> 00:13:21.140
  • good public worshiper and leader
  • 00:13:21.140 --> 00:13:24.090
  • in worship.
  • 00:13:24.090 --> 00:13:25.040
  • - Mark: What a good word.
  • 00:13:25.040 --> 00:13:26.060
  • - Jentezen: A lot of people
  • 00:13:26.060 --> 00:13:27.020
  • don't worship in private.
  • 00:13:27.020 --> 00:13:28.150
  • And some of the greatest times
  • 00:13:28.150 --> 00:13:29.120
  • of worship that I have
  • 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:30.190
  • personally is when I'm at home
  • 00:13:30.190 --> 00:13:32.110
  • by myself and I've got a piano
  • 00:13:32.110 --> 00:13:34.200
  • there and I'll just sit down and
  • 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:36.020
  • start playing and singing and
  • 00:13:36.020 --> 00:13:37.170
  • sometimes just an expression
  • 00:13:37.170 --> 00:13:39.190
  • from my heart and it's amazing
  • 00:13:39.190 --> 00:13:41.280
  • how God's presence, you know,
  • 00:13:41.280 --> 00:13:43.170
  • when it's done, like, not out of
  • 00:13:43.170 --> 00:13:45.180
  • performance but out of, "I
  • 00:13:45.180 --> 00:13:47.030
  • really love you and I wanna sing
  • 00:13:47.030 --> 00:13:49.040
  • this song to you."
  • 00:13:49.040 --> 00:13:50.010
  • And so we did a--I had a desire
  • 00:13:50.010 --> 00:13:52.110
  • to do a CD and grab some of the
  • 00:13:52.110 --> 00:13:55.100
  • old hymns, great hymns, of the
  • 00:13:55.100 --> 00:13:57.160
  • church, songs of the church,
  • 00:13:57.160 --> 00:13:59.020
  • songs by people like
  • 00:13:59.020 --> 00:14:00.280
  • Andraé Crouch who, in my era,
  • 00:14:00.280 --> 00:14:02.240
  • is Elvis.
  • 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:03.120
  • Do you remember Andraé?
  • 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:04.070
  • - Mark: Oh, man.
  • 00:14:04.070 --> 00:14:04.260
  • - Jentezen: I loved
  • 00:14:04.260 --> 00:14:05.190
  • Andraé Crouch.
  • 00:14:05.190 --> 00:14:06.110
  • He's gone to be with the Lord
  • 00:14:06.110 --> 00:14:07.220
  • but his music just messed me up,
  • 00:14:07.220 --> 00:14:09.240
  • you know, "The Blood Will Never
  • 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:11.050
  • Lose Its Power," "Through It
  • 00:14:11.050 --> 00:14:12.180
  • All," "To God Be the Glory," "My
  • 00:14:12.180 --> 00:14:14.180
  • Tribute."
  • 00:14:14.180 --> 00:14:17.180
  • I mean, we could go on and on.
  • 00:14:17.180 --> 00:14:19.090
  • And so we grabbed some of his
  • 00:14:19.090 --> 00:14:20.150
  • songs and we put it on this CD
  • 00:14:20.150 --> 00:14:23.090
  • and I wanted to get some of the
  • 00:14:23.090 --> 00:14:24.220
  • traditional hymns like, "At
  • 00:14:24.220 --> 00:14:26.220
  • the Cross," and--
  • 00:14:26.220 --> 00:14:27.290
  • - Mark: Beautiful, beautiful.
  • 00:14:27.290 --> 00:14:28.260
  • - Jentezen: Then at--we
  • 00:14:28.260 --> 00:14:29.180
  • recorded it live at Free Chapel
  • 00:14:29.180 --> 00:14:31.150
  • and I'm playing the sax on all
  • 00:14:31.150 --> 00:14:32.180
  • of 'em and then we went in
  • 00:14:32.180 --> 00:14:35.010
  • studio in Nashville and had a
  • 00:14:35.010 --> 00:14:36.200
  • 40-piece orchestra come in and
  • 00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:39.080
  • really fatten it up.
  • 00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:41.120
  • - Mark: Spike it up.
  • 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:42.000
  • - Jentezen: Yeah, exactly.
  • 00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:42.210
  • And it was a beautiful
  • 00:14:42.210 --> 00:14:43.110
  • experience.
  • 00:14:43.110 --> 00:14:44.020
  • I really enjoyed it and, if
  • 00:14:44.020 --> 00:14:45.010
  • nobody else likes this CD, I
  • 00:14:45.010 --> 00:14:46.060
  • really like it 'cause--
  • 00:14:46.060 --> 00:14:48.010
  • - Mark: It's gonna be
  • 00:14:48.010 --> 00:14:48.280
  • beautiful.
  • 00:14:48.280 --> 00:14:49.170
  • - Jentezen: I love all the new
  • 00:14:49.170 --> 00:14:50.090
  • stuff.
  • 00:14:50.090 --> 00:14:50.240
  • You know, we're a contemporary
  • 00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:51.220
  • ministry and we, you know,
  • 00:14:51.220 --> 00:14:53.130
  • our--this is not in any way like
  • 00:14:53.130 --> 00:14:55.270
  • a representation of our praise
  • 00:14:56.180 --> 00:14:59.180
  • and worship at our church.
  • 00:14:59.180 --> 00:15:01.100
  • We do, you know, contemporary
  • 00:15:01.100 --> 00:15:03.170
  • worship with Hillsong and all
  • 00:15:03.170 --> 00:15:05.100
  • the great, Bethel, and all that
  • 00:15:05.100 --> 00:15:07.120
  • great music and some of our own.
  • 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:09.220
  • But I wanted to go back and say
  • 00:15:09.220 --> 00:15:11.020
  • to our pastors and leaders that
  • 00:15:11.020 --> 00:15:13.210
  • it's okay to mix the new with
  • 00:15:13.210 --> 00:15:16.040
  • the old.
  • 00:15:16.040 --> 00:15:17.040
  • That there's something about
  • 00:15:17.040 --> 00:15:18.100
  • Granny needs some of her music
  • 00:15:18.100 --> 00:15:19.260
  • too, you know, and, beyond that,
  • 00:15:19.260 --> 00:15:22.090
  • the younger generation gets in
  • 00:15:22.090 --> 00:15:24.100
  • to some of these great hymns
  • 00:15:24.100 --> 00:15:25.260
  • when they hear the lyrics and
  • 00:15:25.260 --> 00:15:28.000
  • the power that's in these words,
  • 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:30.130
  • you know, "At the cross, at the
  • 00:15:30.130 --> 00:15:32.090
  • cross where I first saw the
  • 00:15:32.090 --> 00:15:33.190
  • light.
  • 00:15:33.190 --> 00:15:34.170
  • And the burdens of my heart were
  • 00:15:34.170 --> 00:15:36.070
  • rolled away."
  • 00:15:36.070 --> 00:15:37.030
  • And this music is timeless.
  • 00:15:37.030 --> 00:15:38.220
  • - Mark: It is timeless.
  • 00:15:38.220 --> 00:15:40.000
  • I was looking at some of
  • 00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:40.240
  • the--before the show, was
  • 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:42.060
  • looking at some of the titles on
  • 00:15:42.060 --> 00:15:43.170
  • here.
  • 00:15:43.170 --> 00:15:44.200
  • "Oh Happy Day," which you opened
  • 00:15:44.200 --> 00:15:45.180
  • with.
  • 00:15:45.180 --> 00:15:46.150
  • That was fantastic.
  • 00:15:46.150 --> 00:15:47.240
  • - Jentezen: Thank you.
  • 00:15:47.240 --> 00:15:48.190
  • - Mark: "I've Got a Feeling,"
  • 00:15:48.190 --> 00:15:49.130
  • "There's Something About That
  • 00:15:49.130 --> 00:15:50.100
  • Name," that's a--and it ends,
  • 00:15:50.100 --> 00:15:52.220
  • the whole thing ends with
  • 00:15:52.220 --> 00:15:53.210
  • "Because He Lives."
  • 00:15:53.210 --> 00:15:54.240
  • - Jentezen: You could sing,
  • 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:55.210
  • "There's Something About That
  • 00:15:55.210 --> 00:15:56.140
  • Name," Dr. Rutland, that's such
  • 00:15:56.140 --> 00:15:57.180
  • a beautiful song.
  • 00:15:57.180 --> 00:15:58.280
  • Do you wanna sing it right now?
  • 00:15:58.280 --> 00:16:00.040
  • - Mark: Nobody would recognize
  • 00:16:00.040 --> 00:16:01.040
  • it if I sang it.
  • 00:16:01.040 --> 00:16:02.190
  • I couldn't hit those notes
  • 00:16:02.190 --> 00:16:04.280
  • if my hand was caught
  • 00:16:04.280 --> 00:16:06.030
  • in a meat grinder.
  • 00:16:06.030 --> 00:16:07.150
  • - Jentezen: Ohh.
  • 00:16:07.150 --> 00:16:08.260
  • - Mark: It's wonderful.
  • 00:16:08.260 --> 00:16:10.040
  • This is great.
  • 00:16:10.040 --> 00:16:11.060
  • I'm absolute--
  • 00:16:11.060 --> 00:16:12.080
  • - Jentezen: That's quite
  • 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:12.280
  • a mental picture,
  • 00:16:12.280 --> 00:16:13.220
  • isn't it?
  • 00:16:13.220 --> 00:16:15.280
  • - Mark: This is gonna be
  • 00:16:15.280 --> 00:16:16.230
  • fantastic.
  • 00:16:16.230 --> 00:16:17.130
  • "I Hear the Sound--"
  • 00:16:17.130 --> 00:16:18.130
  • - Jentezen: Well, at any point
  • 00:16:18.130 --> 00:16:19.050
  • tonight when I'm playing, if you
  • 00:16:19.050 --> 00:16:20.070
  • just wanna jump in.
  • 00:16:20.070 --> 00:16:21.030
  • - Mark: I'll walk over there
  • 00:16:21.030 --> 00:16:21.240
  • and join in.
  • 00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:22.140
  • - Jentezen: Yeah, just hit that
  • 00:16:22.140 --> 00:16:23.060
  • meat-grinder high C.
  • 00:16:23.060 --> 00:16:24.100
  • - Mark: Then I want it to go on
  • 00:16:24.100 --> 00:16:26.060
  • record that I sang a duet with
  • 00:16:26.060 --> 00:16:28.080
  • Jentezen Franklin.
  • 00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:29.210
  • - Jentezen: Well, that's not
  • 00:16:29.210 --> 00:16:30.230
  • saying much but we can do it, we
  • 00:16:30.230 --> 00:16:32.080
  • can do it.
  • 00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:33.140
  • - Mark: The title is, "I Hear
  • 00:16:33.140 --> 00:16:35.200
  • the Sound: Songs That Matter."
  • 00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:37.150
  • I love it.
  • 00:16:37.150 --> 00:16:38.110
  • And it's recorded live at Free
  • 00:16:38.110 --> 00:16:39.220
  • Chapel and it's a
  • 00:16:39.220 --> 00:16:41.110
  • beautiful--many, many people are
  • 00:16:41.110 --> 00:16:43.120
  • gonna get this.
  • 00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:44.080
  • - Jentezen: Thank you.
  • 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:45.030
  • - Mark: This is a gorgeous,
  • 00:16:45.030 --> 00:16:45.270
  • gorgeous album.
  • 00:16:45.270 --> 00:16:46.230
  • Thank you so much for taking the
  • 00:16:46.230 --> 00:16:47.230
  • time to do this and to produce
  • 00:16:47.230 --> 00:16:50.170
  • this.
  • 00:16:50.170 --> 00:16:51.080
  • A lot of people need to hear
  • 00:16:51.080 --> 00:16:52.080
  • this music and it'll be a
  • 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:53.140
  • comfort to a lot of people.
  • 00:16:53.140 --> 00:16:54.200
  • - Jentezen: You know, I think
  • 00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:55.130
  • atmosphere matters.
  • 00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:58.240
  • It's funny how restaurants and
  • 00:16:58.280 --> 00:17:02.000
  • even clubs and things, they
  • 00:17:02.090 --> 00:17:05.090
  • understand the power of
  • 00:17:05.090 --> 00:17:06.070
  • atmosphere.
  • 00:17:06.070 --> 00:17:07.260
  • And I think sometimes we fail to
  • 00:17:07.260 --> 00:17:09.100
  • remember that the Holy Spirit
  • 00:17:09.100 --> 00:17:11.150
  • responds to atmospheres.
  • 00:17:11.150 --> 00:17:13.150
  • And what we capture on this, a
  • 00:17:13.150 --> 00:17:15.260
  • lot of the songs--some of the
  • 00:17:15.260 --> 00:17:17.080
  • songs, once we get past the
  • 00:17:17.080 --> 00:17:18.070
  • upbeat stuff like you just
  • 00:17:18.070 --> 00:17:19.280
  • heard, we just basically go into
  • 00:17:19.280 --> 00:17:22.100
  • a mode of worship that you could
  • 00:17:22.100 --> 00:17:23.250
  • put on when you really wanna
  • 00:17:23.250 --> 00:17:25.030
  • pray and really wanna just be
  • 00:17:25.030 --> 00:17:26.110
  • with the Lord or meditate and
  • 00:17:26.110 --> 00:17:27.280
  • I'd encourage people this year,
  • 00:17:27.280 --> 00:17:30.050
  • early this year, you know, to
  • 00:17:30.050 --> 00:17:31.230
  • just make up your mind you're
  • 00:17:31.230 --> 00:17:33.080
  • gonna be a worshipper because if
  • 00:17:33.080 --> 00:17:34.190
  • you'll worship, you'll get
  • 00:17:34.190 --> 00:17:36.040
  • through any trial life will
  • 00:17:36.040 --> 00:17:37.020
  • bring.
  • 00:17:37.020 --> 00:17:38.040
  • And sometimes, you know, the
  • 00:17:38.040 --> 00:17:39.270
  • praise that costs the most
  • 00:17:39.270 --> 00:17:41.170
  • counts the most.
  • 00:17:41.170 --> 00:17:43.190
  • It's easy to praise God when
  • 00:17:43.190 --> 00:17:45.210
  • you're on top of everything but
  • 00:17:45.210 --> 00:17:46.270
  • when you're going through the
  • 00:17:46.270 --> 00:17:49.020
  • struggle, when you're going
  • 00:17:49.020 --> 00:17:51.140
  • through loss, when you're going
  • 00:17:51.140 --> 00:17:53.000
  • through pain and life comes to
  • 00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:54.290
  • all of us and I've found that I
  • 00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:00.260
  • can put on the garment of praise
  • 00:18:00.260 --> 00:18:03.240
  • for the spirit of heaviness.
  • 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:05.140
  • Life gets heavy but you--if you
  • 00:18:05.140 --> 00:18:08.050
  • will begin to say, "But, Lord,
  • 00:18:08.050 --> 00:18:10.200
  • you're good and I choose to
  • 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:12.160
  • worship you, and I even turn
  • 00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:14.150
  • this season, because it's not
  • 00:18:14.150 --> 00:18:16.270
  • gonna last forever."
  • 00:18:16.270 --> 00:18:19.190
  • Whatever you're going through,
  • 00:18:19.190 --> 00:18:21.220
  • it's not gonna last forever.
  • 00:18:21.220 --> 00:18:23.040
  • The sun will shine again.
  • 00:18:23.040 --> 00:18:24.250
  • God'll give you another miracle.
  • 00:18:24.250 --> 00:18:27.060
  • Maybe the thing didn't work out
  • 00:18:27.060 --> 00:18:29.010
  • like you wanted it to.
  • 00:18:29.010 --> 00:18:30.200
  • The door you thought opened and
  • 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:32.030
  • it closed or some thing that
  • 00:18:32.030 --> 00:18:34.080
  • you--Bible said, "Hope deferred
  • 00:18:34.080 --> 00:18:35.150
  • makes the heart sick."
  • 00:18:35.150 --> 00:18:37.210
  • When something you really dream
  • 00:18:37.210 --> 00:18:38.230
  • for and it just collapses and
  • 00:18:38.230 --> 00:18:40.180
  • you feel like your world's caved
  • 00:18:40.180 --> 00:18:42.120
  • in.
  • 00:18:42.120 --> 00:18:43.110
  • I've learned that in those
  • 00:18:43.110 --> 00:18:45.030
  • times, that if I will worship,
  • 00:18:45.030 --> 00:18:47.070
  • you know, and just meditate on
  • 00:18:47.070 --> 00:18:49.050
  • the Word of God and fill my
  • 00:18:49.050 --> 00:18:50.250
  • heart with--remind myself that
  • 00:18:52.060 --> 00:18:55.060
  • he's for me, he's not against
  • 00:18:55.060 --> 00:18:57.210
  • me.
  • 00:18:57.210 --> 00:18:58.150
  • It's nothing you've done that's
  • 00:18:58.150 --> 00:18:59.160
  • made a tragedy or something
  • 00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:01.190
  • tough hit your life.
  • 00:19:01.190 --> 00:19:03.090
  • I don't believe that.
  • 00:19:03.090 --> 00:19:04.140
  • I don't believe we have a God up
  • 00:19:04.140 --> 00:19:05.130
  • there who's throwing hate balls
  • 00:19:05.130 --> 00:19:07.240
  • at us and I believe he loves us.
  • 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:10.110
  • I believe life just happens
  • 00:19:10.110 --> 00:19:12.060
  • sometimes.
  • 00:19:12.060 --> 00:19:12.280
  • Things just happen.
  • 00:19:12.280 --> 00:19:14.100
  • And in those times, you have to
  • 00:19:14.100 --> 00:19:15.110
  • do what David did.
  • 00:19:15.110 --> 00:19:17.050
  • David encouraged himself in the
  • 00:19:17.050 --> 00:19:19.060
  • Lord.
  • 00:19:19.060 --> 00:19:19.240
  • And I believe he did it through
  • 00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:20.160
  • praise.
  • 00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:21.110
  • - Mark: I do too.
  • 00:19:21.110 --> 00:19:21.280
  • I think it's critical.
  • 00:19:21.280 --> 00:19:23.040
  • And I appreciate the balance you
  • 00:19:23.040 --> 00:19:25.010
  • bring, Jentezen.
  • 00:19:25.010 --> 00:19:26.210
  • Sometimes, it seems like we send
  • 00:19:26.210 --> 00:19:29.040
  • the message in the Spirit-filled
  • 00:19:29.050 --> 00:19:32.050
  • realm that if you're right with
  • 00:19:32.050 --> 00:19:34.100
  • God and living right and
  • 00:19:34.100 --> 00:19:35.240
  • believing right, nothing bad
  • 00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:37.150
  • will ever happen to you.
  • 00:19:37.150 --> 00:19:38.160
  • But sometimes, life collides
  • 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:40.080
  • with us.
  • 00:19:40.080 --> 00:19:42.050
  • - Jentezen: All you need to do
  • 00:19:42.050 --> 00:19:43.040
  • is get you some children and
  • 00:19:43.040 --> 00:19:44.270
  • it'll balance you out real
  • 00:19:44.270 --> 00:19:47.050
  • quick.
  • 00:19:47.050 --> 00:19:48.120
  • - Mark: It'll put your feet on
  • 00:19:48.120 --> 00:19:49.070
  • the ground.
  • 00:19:49.070 --> 00:19:49.220
  • - Jentezen: Get you some
  • 00:19:49.220 --> 00:19:50.130
  • teenagers in your house.
  • 00:19:50.130 --> 00:19:52.030
  • Get you some--because people,
  • 00:19:52.230 --> 00:19:55.230
  • you know, it's gotta be real or
  • 00:19:55.230 --> 00:19:57.250
  • if it doesn't work in everyday
  • 00:19:57.250 --> 00:19:59.130
  • life, if it doesn't work in the
  • 00:19:59.130 --> 00:20:01.010
  • times when, you know, our heart
  • 00:20:02.180 --> 00:20:05.180
  • is broken.
  • 00:20:05.180 --> 00:20:06.150
  • And I just think that one of the
  • 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:09.240
  • greatest ways that we can
  • 00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:11.080
  • maintain our joy, and it's
  • 00:20:11.080 --> 00:20:13.270
  • really something you need to do,
  • 00:20:13.270 --> 00:20:16.050
  • is to remind ourselves that God
  • 00:20:16.050 --> 00:20:18.000
  • loves us and do it through song
  • 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:19.150
  • and do it through worship.
  • 00:20:19.150 --> 00:20:20.270
  • I love to do it.
  • 00:20:20.270 --> 00:20:21.270
  • - Mark: One of the things that
  • 00:20:21.270 --> 00:20:22.240
  • music does and, like, a CD like
  • 00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:24.220
  • this can do for us, it seems to
  • 00:20:24.220 --> 00:20:27.220
  • me, is just to create
  • 00:20:27.220 --> 00:20:30.000
  • that--where I listen most is in
  • 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:31.210
  • my car.
  • 00:20:31.210 --> 00:20:33.060
  • And I think most people do.
  • 00:20:33.060 --> 00:20:34.180
  • And you know, you just turn that
  • 00:20:34.180 --> 00:20:36.000
  • car into a sanctuary of worship
  • 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:38.190
  • and it--I wanna praise God but
  • 00:20:38.190 --> 00:20:40.270
  • sometimes I need to prime the
  • 00:20:40.270 --> 00:20:42.150
  • pump.
  • 00:20:42.150 --> 00:20:43.090
  • - Jentezen: That's good.
  • 00:20:43.090 --> 00:20:43.280
  • - Mark: Sometimes, I just need
  • 00:20:43.280 --> 00:20:44.270
  • to surround myself and I find
  • 00:20:44.270 --> 00:20:47.030
  • myself caught up in the streams
  • 00:20:47.030 --> 00:20:49.160
  • of what somebody else is singing
  • 00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:51.010
  • or the music, whatever, and
  • 00:20:51.010 --> 00:20:52.290
  • that's one of the purposes of
  • 00:20:52.290 --> 00:20:54.230
  • recorded music.
  • 00:20:54.230 --> 00:20:56.220
  • To help people get started with
  • 00:20:56.220 --> 00:20:58.210
  • worship.
  • 00:20:58.210 --> 00:20:59.270
  • - Jentezen: It really is.
  • 00:20:59.270 --> 00:21:00.240
  • I, one time, read a book and
  • 00:21:01.130 --> 00:21:04.130
  • this author who wrote it was a
  • 00:21:04.130 --> 00:21:07.060
  • praise and worship leader.
  • 00:21:07.060 --> 00:21:08.220
  • He said that music is mentioned
  • 00:21:08.220 --> 00:21:10.150
  • 839 times in the Bible.
  • 00:21:10.150 --> 00:21:12.230
  • Over 200 verses instruct us to
  • 00:21:13.280 --> 00:21:16.280
  • come into God's presence with
  • 00:21:16.280 --> 00:21:18.100
  • singing.
  • 00:21:18.100 --> 00:21:19.060
  • And so it's not a light small
  • 00:21:19.060 --> 00:21:20.220
  • topic to God.
  • 00:21:22.030 --> 00:21:25.030
  • And when we do it, he says that
  • 00:21:25.030 --> 00:21:26.020
  • he will inhabit our praises.
  • 00:21:26.020 --> 00:21:27.230
  • And sometimes we need to get
  • 00:21:27.230 --> 00:21:29.090
  • broken too in God's presence
  • 00:21:29.090 --> 00:21:31.110
  • and, if your eyes are always
  • 00:21:31.110 --> 00:21:32.280
  • dry, it's probably a sign your
  • 00:21:32.280 --> 00:21:34.150
  • soul is dry.
  • 00:21:34.150 --> 00:21:35.230
  • You know, if you lose your
  • 00:21:35.230 --> 00:21:38.080
  • emotions, I'm not overly
  • 00:21:38.080 --> 00:21:40.050
  • emotional but I do believe that
  • 00:21:40.070 --> 00:21:43.070
  • we ought to exhibit our worship
  • 00:21:43.070 --> 00:21:45.270
  • in God in times even with
  • 00:21:45.270 --> 00:21:47.060
  • emotion.
  • 00:21:47.060 --> 00:21:48.210
  • The emotion we're feeling in
  • 00:21:48.210 --> 00:21:50.050
  • life in that different--in that
  • 00:21:50.050 --> 00:21:51.270
  • particular season.
  • 00:21:51.270 --> 00:21:53.030
  • And I think sometimes, people
  • 00:21:53.030 --> 00:21:56.000
  • just let their heart grow cold
  • 00:21:56.090 --> 00:21:59.090
  • even though they love the Lord
  • 00:21:59.090 --> 00:22:01.030
  • and we need expressions of
  • 00:22:01.030 --> 00:22:02.200
  • worship and expressions of
  • 00:22:03.010 --> 00:22:06.010
  • praise.
  • 00:22:06.010 --> 00:22:06.280
  • And there are certain songs that
  • 00:22:06.280 --> 00:22:08.100
  • I've heard, you know, that just
  • 00:22:08.100 --> 00:22:09.060
  • hit me at a certain time in my
  • 00:22:09.060 --> 00:22:10.210
  • life and the tears would just
  • 00:22:10.210 --> 00:22:12.050
  • flow and that's all right.
  • 00:22:12.050 --> 00:22:13.230
  • It's all right because there's
  • 00:22:13.230 --> 00:22:15.160
  • healing in that and there's
  • 00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:16.190
  • power in that and there's
  • 00:22:16.190 --> 00:22:17.160
  • worship in that.
  • 00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:18.160
  • - Mark: Amen.
  • 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:19.090
  • Jentezen, I would be remiss if I
  • 00:22:19.090 --> 00:22:21.230
  • don't ask you a question.
  • 00:22:21.230 --> 00:22:22.230
  • I told someone I was gonna be
  • 00:22:22.230 --> 00:22:23.270
  • interviewing you on this program
  • 00:22:23.270 --> 00:22:26.020
  • and they said, "Look, I've got
  • 00:22:26.020 --> 00:22:28.060
  • something I've always wanted to
  • 00:22:28.060 --> 00:22:29.110
  • ask him."
  • 00:22:29.110 --> 00:22:30.070
  • You've probably written as much
  • 00:22:30.070 --> 00:22:31.250
  • and practiced as much
  • 00:22:31.250 --> 00:22:33.120
  • as--fasting, as anybody in the
  • 00:22:33.120 --> 00:22:35.080
  • contemporary church.
  • 00:22:35.080 --> 00:22:36.240
  • And they said, "Ask him this.
  • 00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:38.270
  • 'What is the number one benefit
  • 00:22:38.270 --> 00:22:41.190
  • of fasting?
  • 00:22:41.190 --> 00:22:42.200
  • What is it supposed to do for
  • 00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:43.130
  • me?'"
  • 00:22:43.130 --> 00:22:44.080
  • This person asked.
  • 00:22:44.080 --> 00:22:46.060
  • - Jentezen: For me, it is the
  • 00:22:46.060 --> 00:22:48.240
  • quickest way that I can go back
  • 00:22:49.260 --> 00:22:52.260
  • to the basics of just loving
  • 00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:57.160
  • Jesus.
  • 00:22:57.160 --> 00:22:58.190
  • Sometimes it can--we can get
  • 00:22:58.190 --> 00:23:00.140
  • cluttered.
  • 00:23:00.140 --> 00:23:01.100
  • We can--you just accumulate
  • 00:23:01.160 --> 00:23:04.160
  • things in your soul, in your
  • 00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:06.100
  • Spirit, in your heart.
  • 00:23:06.100 --> 00:23:08.040
  • And if you want a quick way into
  • 00:23:08.040 --> 00:23:11.020
  • the presence of God, a quick way
  • 00:23:11.020 --> 00:23:13.170
  • to, you know, like the old song,
  • 00:23:13.170 --> 00:23:15.210
  • I think Andraé wrote it,
  • 00:23:15.210 --> 00:23:17.090
  • "Take Me Back."
  • 00:23:17.090 --> 00:23:18.100
  • Take me back to the place where
  • 00:23:18.100 --> 00:23:20.020
  • I first believed.
  • 00:23:20.020 --> 00:23:21.150
  • And there's something about
  • 00:23:21.150 --> 00:23:22.150
  • fasting that makes you extremely
  • 00:23:22.150 --> 00:23:23.240
  • sensitive.
  • 00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:25.090
  • And when I feel myself getting
  • 00:23:25.090 --> 00:23:26.120
  • cold, when I feel myself
  • 00:23:26.120 --> 00:23:28.080
  • becoming mechanical, when I feel
  • 00:23:28.080 --> 00:23:30.050
  • myself praying but, you know,
  • 00:23:30.050 --> 00:23:32.220
  • just doing it because and I
  • 00:23:33.090 --> 00:23:36.090
  • understand that it's a
  • 00:23:36.090 --> 00:23:37.140
  • discipline to prayer, but at
  • 00:23:37.140 --> 00:23:39.100
  • some point we need to say,
  • 00:23:40.150 --> 00:23:43.150
  • again, Lord, come and be near to
  • 00:23:43.150 --> 00:23:46.150
  • me.
  • 00:23:46.150 --> 00:23:47.070
  • And, you know, in--Naomi said to
  • 00:23:47.130 --> 00:23:50.130
  • Ruth when she was about to go
  • 00:23:50.130 --> 00:23:53.010
  • to her kinsman redeemer, Boaz,
  • 00:23:53.100 --> 00:23:56.100
  • she said--she told him to do
  • 00:23:56.100 --> 00:23:58.130
  • five things real quick.
  • 00:23:58.130 --> 00:24:00.020
  • And I think it's the five things
  • 00:24:00.020 --> 00:24:00.290
  • that fasting does.
  • 00:24:00.290 --> 00:24:02.160
  • She said to her, giving good
  • 00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:04.160
  • advice to this young girl, Ruth,
  • 00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:06.250
  • who was about to be married to
  • 00:24:06.250 --> 00:24:08.290
  • Boaz.
  • 00:24:08.290 --> 00:24:09.290
  • She said, number one, cleanse
  • 00:24:09.290 --> 00:24:11.120
  • yourself.
  • 00:24:11.120 --> 00:24:12.170
  • When you fast, it's like taking
  • 00:24:12.170 --> 00:24:14.000
  • a spiritual bath.
  • 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:15.150
  • You know, James said, "Cleanse
  • 00:24:15.150 --> 00:24:18.070
  • your hands, you sinners,
  • 00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:21.160
  • and purify your heart,
  • 00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:23.260
  • you double-minded."
  • 00:24:23.260 --> 00:24:25.180
  • God says, "I don't want you to
  • 00:24:25.180 --> 00:24:26.090
  • have dirty hands and defiled
  • 00:24:26.090 --> 00:24:28.150
  • hearts and double minds.
  • 00:24:28.150 --> 00:24:30.180
  • Cleanse yourself."
  • 00:24:30.180 --> 00:24:32.100
  • So when you fast, you're taking
  • 00:24:32.100 --> 00:24:33.160
  • the garbage out.
  • 00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:35.200
  • You're saying, "I need a fresh
  • 00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:36.140
  • start.
  • 00:24:36.140 --> 00:24:37.190
  • I want you to get all my--I
  • 00:24:37.190 --> 00:24:38.250
  • wanna come before you and I want
  • 00:24:38.250 --> 00:24:40.280
  • you to just cleanse me."
  • 00:24:40.280 --> 00:24:42.070
  • And then secondly, she said,
  • 00:24:42.070 --> 00:24:43.250
  • "And anoint yourself with oil."
  • 00:24:43.250 --> 00:24:46.120
  • So be fragrantly anointed.
  • 00:24:46.120 --> 00:24:47.280
  • "Put perfume on, girl," that's
  • 00:24:47.280 --> 00:24:49.140
  • what she was saying.
  • 00:24:49.140 --> 00:24:50.180
  • You don't--God doesn't want--so
  • 00:24:50.180 --> 00:24:52.190
  • when you fast, you're being
  • 00:24:52.190 --> 00:24:55.100
  • freshly anointed.
  • 00:24:55.100 --> 00:24:56.130
  • We're in a new year.
  • 00:24:56.130 --> 00:24:57.060
  • We need a fresh--you can't fight
  • 00:24:57.060 --> 00:24:58.160
  • today's battles off yesterday's
  • 00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:00.040
  • anointing.
  • 00:25:00.040 --> 00:25:01.080
  • - Mark: Ah, that's so true, so
  • 00:25:01.080 --> 00:25:02.000
  • true.
  • 00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:02.150
  • - Jentezen: So be freshly
  • 00:25:02.150 --> 00:25:03.050
  • anointed.
  • 00:25:03.050 --> 00:25:03.270
  • You can't fast and God not
  • 00:25:03.270 --> 00:25:05.020
  • freshly anoint you so you're
  • 00:25:05.020 --> 00:25:06.160
  • freshly cleansed, you're freshly
  • 00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:08.240
  • anointed.
  • 00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:09.180
  • Then he said--then she said,
  • 00:25:09.180 --> 00:25:10.160
  • Ain't that amazing?
  • 00:25:13.030 --> 00:25:14.290
  • You know, in other words, she
  • 00:25:14.290 --> 00:25:15.290
  • had been mourning.
  • 00:25:15.290 --> 00:25:16.210
  • She had lost her husband and she
  • 00:25:16.210 --> 00:25:18.050
  • had her mourning clothes on.
  • 00:25:18.050 --> 00:25:19.190
  • And he said, "It's time to put
  • 00:25:19.190 --> 00:25:20.270
  • on the garment of praise.
  • 00:25:20.270 --> 00:25:22.070
  • It's time to put on a new
  • 00:25:22.070 --> 00:25:23.000
  • out--be fitly clothed.
  • 00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:24.160
  • Be clothed in righteousness,
  • 00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:26.180
  • the robes of righteousness.
  • 00:25:26.180 --> 00:25:28.240
  • Put it on."
  • 00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:29.180
  • And so when you are fasting, one
  • 00:25:29.180 --> 00:25:32.050
  • of the things that'll happen is
  • 00:25:32.050 --> 00:25:33.170
  • you'll put a new robe on.
  • 00:25:33.170 --> 00:25:35.020
  • Your praise and worship will
  • 00:25:35.020 --> 00:25:36.120
  • come alive.
  • 00:25:36.120 --> 00:25:37.150
  • You know, if you've been going
  • 00:25:37.150 --> 00:25:38.080
  • to church and just kind of
  • 00:25:38.080 --> 00:25:39.110
  • clapping when they said, "Clap,"
  • 00:25:39.110 --> 00:25:40.210
  • into church and you--the next
  • 00:25:42.230 --> 00:25:44.170
  • day and, boy, when they're
  • 00:25:44.170 --> 00:25:45.200
  • singing those songs about Jesus,
  • 00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:47.090
  • you'll have a new wardrobe on,
  • 00:25:47.090 --> 00:25:49.220
  • the garment of praise.
  • 00:25:49.220 --> 00:25:50.290
  • And then lastly, you know, she
  • 00:25:50.290 --> 00:25:52.260
  • said to him or she said to her,
  • 00:25:52.260 --> 00:25:54.210
  • she said, "You know, after
  • 00:25:54.210 --> 00:25:56.120
  • you've done that, then bow down
  • 00:25:56.120 --> 00:25:58.130
  • at his feet, uncover his feet
  • 00:25:58.130 --> 00:25:59.250
  • and bow down at his feet."
  • 00:25:59.250 --> 00:26:02.090
  • And there's something about
  • 00:26:02.090 --> 00:26:03.140
  • worship that is an act of
  • 00:26:03.140 --> 00:26:05.080
  • consecration.
  • 00:26:05.080 --> 00:26:06.150
  • He's saying, "I fully commit
  • 00:26:06.150 --> 00:26:08.240
  • to you.
  • 00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:09.140
  • I submit to you," and the most
  • 00:26:09.140 --> 00:26:11.040
  • wonderful place on earth is at
  • 00:26:11.040 --> 00:26:13.000
  • the feet of Jesus.
  • 00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:14.200
  • And the quickest way that you
  • 00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:16.050
  • can get in the presence of God
  • 00:26:16.050 --> 00:26:18.160
  • is at his feet.
  • 00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:20.090
  • And there's something about
  • 00:26:20.090 --> 00:26:21.080
  • fasting that it is humbling.
  • 00:26:21.080 --> 00:26:23.130
  • It's saying, "I relinquish
  • 00:26:23.130 --> 00:26:25.100
  • myself and I want to be at
  • 00:26:25.100 --> 00:26:27.250
  • your feet."
  • 00:26:27.250 --> 00:26:28.280
  • And then lastly, she said, "When
  • 00:26:28.280 --> 00:26:30.160
  • he ask you, tell him, 'Whatever
  • 00:26:30.210 --> 00:26:33.210
  • you ask me to do, I will do.'"
  • 00:26:33.210 --> 00:26:35.290
  • So it's being fully compliant.
  • 00:26:35.290 --> 00:26:37.280
  • When I fast, I don't come and
  • 00:26:37.280 --> 00:26:39.180
  • say, "I want you to do this,
  • 00:26:39.180 --> 00:26:41.030
  • God, and I'm fasting.
  • 00:26:41.030 --> 00:26:42.060
  • I'm on a hunger strike and if
  • 00:26:42.060 --> 00:26:43.090
  • you don't do this."
  • 00:26:43.090 --> 00:26:44.050
  • I ask big.
  • 00:26:44.050 --> 00:26:45.130
  • I ask God for things.
  • 00:26:45.130 --> 00:26:46.290
  • But I'm really saying on a fast,
  • 00:26:47.040 --> 00:26:50.040
  • "This is what I think I need but
  • 00:26:50.040 --> 00:26:52.010
  • I really don't know what I need
  • 00:26:52.010 --> 00:26:54.230
  • but I'm willing to put it before
  • 00:26:54.230 --> 00:26:56.250
  • you and say, "Not my will but
  • 00:26:56.250 --> 00:26:58.170
  • thine be done."
  • 00:26:58.170 --> 00:27:00.110
  • I'll only want what you want me
  • 00:27:00.110 --> 00:27:01.150
  • to have."
  • 00:27:01.150 --> 00:27:02.090
  • - Mark: Beautiful.
  • 00:27:02.090 --> 00:27:03.010
  • - Jentezen: And that's what
  • 00:27:03.010 --> 00:27:03.210
  • fasting will do for you.
  • 00:27:03.210 --> 00:27:04.180
  • - Mark: Oh, that's fabulous.
  • 00:27:04.180 --> 00:27:06.050
  • You know, I've now participated
  • 00:27:06.050 --> 00:27:08.150
  • through 3 years in the fasting
  • 00:27:08.150 --> 00:27:10.060
  • at Free Chapel.
  • 00:27:10.060 --> 00:27:11.210
  • I mean, fasting has been a part
  • 00:27:11.210 --> 00:27:12.280
  • of my life but the real
  • 00:27:12.280 --> 00:27:14.070
  • intensity of it at Free Chapel,
  • 00:27:14.250 --> 00:27:17.250
  • this is--I now finish the third
  • 00:27:17.250 --> 00:27:19.280
  • year with the fasting there.
  • 00:27:19.280 --> 00:27:22.020
  • And I'll tell you, it's been a
  • 00:27:22.020 --> 00:27:24.050
  • tremendous blessing in my life.
  • 00:27:24.050 --> 00:27:26.050
  • I've never experienced it at
  • 00:27:26.050 --> 00:27:28.170
  • the level of intensity and, of
  • 00:27:28.170 --> 00:27:30.050
  • course, I wrote a whole book
  • 00:27:30.050 --> 00:27:31.150
  • during one of the fasts.
  • 00:27:31.150 --> 00:27:32.270
  • And it poured out.
  • 00:27:32.270 --> 00:27:34.170
  • I've struggled with books and
  • 00:27:34.170 --> 00:27:36.080
  • that book, while I was fasting,
  • 00:27:36.080 --> 00:27:37.260
  • I couldn't--Jentezen, I almost
  • 00:27:37.260 --> 00:27:40.010
  • couldn't write fast enough.
  • 00:27:40.010 --> 00:27:41.010
  • It was like it was just pouring
  • 00:27:41.010 --> 00:27:41.280
  • out of me.
  • 00:27:41.280 --> 00:27:42.270
  • And I love the fast and I love
  • 00:27:42.270 --> 00:27:45.090
  • what you've--how you've touched
  • 00:27:45.090 --> 00:27:47.000
  • so many lives with the summons
  • 00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:49.040
  • to fasting.
  • 00:27:49.040 --> 00:27:50.160
  • It's an ancient discipline, an
  • 00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:52.100
  • ancient pathway to holiness, and
  • 00:27:52.230 --> 00:27:55.230
  • you've really awakened a new
  • 00:27:55.230 --> 00:27:57.070
  • generation for it.
  • 00:27:57.070 --> 00:27:58.140
  • - Jentezen: You know, back to
  • 00:27:58.140 --> 00:27:59.080
  • your question.
  • 00:27:59.080 --> 00:28:00.180
  • What will fasting do.
  • 00:28:00.180 --> 00:28:02.210
  • Here's the bottom line on it and
  • 00:28:02.210 --> 00:28:04.290
  • I'll close with this.
  • 00:28:04.290 --> 00:28:06.240
  • But here's the bottom line is he
  • 00:28:07.040 --> 00:28:10.040
  • said in three different places
  • 00:28:10.040 --> 00:28:11.160
  • in Matthew 6, "When you pray in
  • 00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:13.160
  • secret, I'll reward you openly.
  • 00:28:13.160 --> 00:28:16.060
  • When you give your charitable
  • 00:28:16.060 --> 00:28:18.070
  • deeds secretly--don't do it
  • 00:28:18.070 --> 00:28:20.040
  • before people, do it secretly,
  • 00:28:20.040 --> 00:28:22.020
  • I'll reward you openly.
  • 00:28:22.020 --> 00:28:24.190
  • And when you fast secretly,
  • 00:28:24.190 --> 00:28:25.260
  • I'll reward you openly."
  • 00:28:25.260 --> 00:28:27.280
  • Point is this.
  • 00:28:27.280 --> 00:28:28.240
  • God says, "I can't keep a
  • 00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:29.220
  • secret.
  • 00:28:29.220 --> 00:28:32.110
  • And any time I see you win in
  • 00:28:32.110 --> 00:28:33.190
  • secret, I will reward you
  • 00:28:33.190 --> 00:28:36.110
  • openly."
  • 00:28:36.110 --> 00:28:37.100
  • But everybody thinks
  • 00:28:37.100 --> 00:28:38.160
  • Samson--Samson thought his
  • 00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:39.280
  • strength was in his ability to
  • 00:28:39.280 --> 00:28:42.280
  • fight.
  • 00:28:42.280 --> 00:28:43.220
  • His strength, his secret to
  • 00:28:44.050 --> 00:28:47.050
  • his--the secret source of power
  • 00:28:47.050 --> 00:28:49.110
  • was his secret vow.
  • 00:28:49.110 --> 00:28:51.100
  • It's what he vowed to God and
  • 00:28:51.100 --> 00:28:52.210
  • kept secret--
  • 00:28:52.210 --> 00:28:53.170
  • - Mark: The Nazirite.
  • 00:28:53.170 --> 00:28:54.050
  • - Jentezen: Between him and
  • 00:28:54.050 --> 00:28:54.250
  • God.
  • 00:28:54.250 --> 00:28:55.150
  • Yeah, he said, "I won't cut my
  • 00:28:55.150 --> 00:28:56.060
  • hair."
  • 00:28:56.060 --> 00:28:57.130
  • And when we win and do things,
  • 00:28:57.130 --> 00:28:59.240
  • you know, it's a public fast
  • 00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:01.140
  • we're on but we're fasting
  • 00:29:01.140 --> 00:29:02.200
  • secretly.
  • 00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:04.100
  • We don't go around--meaning we
  • 00:29:04.100 --> 00:29:05.100
  • don't go around announcing it
  • 00:29:05.100 --> 00:29:06.150
  • and are sad and anything, you
  • 00:29:06.150 --> 00:29:07.200
  • know.
  • 00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:08.120
  • We're doing it unto the Lord.
  • 00:29:08.120 --> 00:29:09.220
  • And God says, "You'll never do
  • 00:29:09.220 --> 00:29:11.100
  • anything--" God just can't keep
  • 00:29:11.100 --> 00:29:12.240
  • a good secret.
  • 00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:13.190
  • - Mark: Amen.
  • 00:29:13.190 --> 00:29:14.210
  • Beautiful.
  • 00:29:14.210 --> 00:29:15.130
  • - Jentezen: And he says, "I'll
  • 00:29:15.130 --> 00:29:16.050
  • go open and I'll go public.
  • 00:29:16.050 --> 00:29:18.290
  • If you have private discipline,
  • 00:29:18.290 --> 00:29:21.170
  • I'll give you public rewards."
  • 00:29:21.170 --> 00:29:23.150
  • - Mark: Praise God.
  • 00:29:23.150 --> 00:29:24.060
  • I love it, I love it.
  • 00:29:24.060 --> 00:29:25.170
  • Beautiful.
  • 00:29:25.170 --> 00:29:26.080
  • - Jentezen: And he's done that
  • 00:29:26.080 --> 00:29:27.030
  • for us, I know that.
  • 00:29:27.030 --> 00:29:27.230
  • And I have unexplainable
  • 00:29:27.230 --> 00:29:29.070
  • blessings that have hit our
  • 00:29:29.070 --> 00:29:30.280
  • church.
  • 00:29:30.280 --> 00:29:31.260
  • You were part of one last year,
  • 00:29:31.260 --> 00:29:34.190
  • you know, with the Spartanburg
  • 00:29:34.190 --> 00:29:36.030
  • campus that God gave us during
  • 00:29:36.030 --> 00:29:38.010
  • that fast.
  • 00:29:38.010 --> 00:29:39.090
  • You know, the connection
  • 00:29:39.090 --> 00:29:40.190
  • happened and I could go on and
  • 00:29:40.190 --> 00:29:41.240
  • on and, even in my family, when
  • 00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:43.260
  • you begin to fast and pray,
  • 00:29:43.260 --> 00:29:46.200
  • things happen that I cannot
  • 00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:49.050
  • explain it but I'm telling you,
  • 00:29:49.050 --> 00:29:50.260
  • doors open.
  • 00:29:50.260 --> 00:29:52.110
  • - Mark: Supernatural.
  • 00:29:52.110 --> 00:29:53.150
  • - Jentezen: It is.
  • 00:29:53.150 --> 00:29:54.040
  • - Mark: It is.
  • 00:29:54.040 --> 00:29:54.240
  • - Jentezen: It really is.
  • 00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:55.130
  • - Mark: Thank you, Jentezen.
  • 00:29:55.130 --> 00:29:56.040
  • Thank you so much.
  • 00:29:56.040 --> 00:29:56.210
  • Listen, you're gonna move back
  • 00:29:56.210 --> 00:29:57.170
  • over there for a moment.
  • 00:29:57.170 --> 00:29:58.160
  • What are you gonna choose out of
  • 00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:00.030
  • here this time?
  • 00:30:00.030 --> 00:30:00.290
  • - Jentezen: I'm gonna do,
  • 00:30:00.290 --> 00:30:02.050
  • "There's Something About That
  • 00:30:02.050 --> 00:30:03.000
  • Name," and, again, you can come
  • 00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:04.180
  • over and sing at any time you
  • 00:30:04.180 --> 00:30:05.260
  • feel the leading.
  • 00:30:05.260 --> 00:30:07.130
  • - Mark: I'll be right there.
  • 00:30:07.130 --> 00:30:08.050
  • I'll be right there.
  • 00:30:08.050 --> 00:30:10.160
  • Jentezen Franklin and some of
  • 00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:12.040
  • the music team from Free Chapel,
  • 00:30:12.040 --> 00:30:14.120
  • out of his beautiful new CD and
  • 00:30:14.120 --> 00:30:17.040
  • one of my favorites, "There's
  • 00:30:17.040 --> 00:30:19.190
  • [music]
  • 00:30:30.120 --> 00:30:37.230
  • [music]
  • 00:30:37.230 --> 00:30:45.100
  • [music]
  • 00:30:45.120 --> 00:30:52.230
  • [music]
  • 00:30:52.230 --> 00:31:00.120
  • [music]
  • 00:31:00.140 --> 00:31:07.250
  • [music]
  • 00:31:07.250 --> 00:31:15.120
  • [music]
  • 00:31:15.140 --> 00:31:22.250
  • [music]
  • 00:31:22.250 --> 00:31:30.120
  • [music]
  • 00:31:30.140 --> 00:31:37.250
  • [music]
  • 00:31:37.250 --> 00:31:45.120
  • [music]
  • 00:31:45.140 --> 00:31:52.250
  • [music]
  • 00:31:52.250 --> 00:32:00.140
  • [music]
  • 00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:07.270
  • [music]
  • 00:32:07.270 --> 00:32:15.140
  • [music]
  • 00:32:15.160 --> 00:32:22.270
  • [music]
  • 00:32:22.270 --> 00:32:30.140
  • [music]
  • 00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:37.270
  • [music]
  • 00:32:37.270 --> 00:32:45.140
  • [music]
  • 00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:52.270
  • [music]
  • 00:32:52.270 --> 00:33:00.160
  • [music]
  • 00:33:00.180 --> 00:33:07.290
  • [music]
  • 00:33:07.290 --> 00:33:15.160
  • [music]
  • 00:33:15.180 --> 00:33:22.290
  • [music]
  • 00:33:22.290 --> 00:33:30.160
  • [music]
  • 00:33:30.180 --> 00:33:37.290
  • [music]
  • 00:33:37.290 --> 00:33:45.160
  • [music]
  • 00:33:45.180 --> 00:33:52.290
  • [music]
  • 00:33:52.290 --> 00:34:00.180
  • [music]
  • 00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:11.230
  • [audience applauding]
  • 00:34:17.240 --> 00:34:20.240
  • - Mark: "Like the fragrance
  • 00:34:20.240 --> 00:34:22.180
  • after the rain," there is,
  • 00:34:22.180 --> 00:34:24.110
  • indeed, just something about
  • 00:34:24.110 --> 00:34:26.090
  • that name.
  • 00:34:26.090 --> 00:34:26.290
  • That's the one and only
  • 00:34:26.290 --> 00:34:28.050
  • Jentezen Franklin from his new
  • 00:34:28.050 --> 00:34:30.130
  • CD, "I Hear the Sound:
  • 00:34:30.130 --> 00:34:31.240
  • Songs That Matter."
  • 00:34:31.240 --> 00:34:33.040
  • I know you'll wanna get it.
  • 00:34:33.040 --> 00:34:33.290
  • And right now, I want you to sit
  • 00:34:33.290 --> 00:34:36.000
  • favorite guests and one of my
  • 00:34:38.110 --> 00:34:39.220
  • great friends, somebody whose
  • 00:34:39.220 --> 00:34:41.240
  • intellect and creativity and
  • 00:34:41.240 --> 00:34:43.080
  • walk with God I've admired for
  • 00:34:43.080 --> 00:34:44.190
  • some time, and a friend of mine.
  • 00:34:44.190 --> 00:34:46.090
  • - Erwin McManus: It's so good
  • 00:34:48.290 --> 00:34:49.200
  • to see you.
  • 00:34:49.200 --> 00:34:50.050
  • - Mark: So glad you're here.
  • 00:34:50.050 --> 00:34:50.260
  • Thank you for being here.
  • 00:34:50.260 --> 00:34:51.240
  • - Erwin: I feel at a huge
  • 00:34:51.240 --> 00:34:53.150
  • deficit, coming on after
  • 00:34:53.150 --> 00:34:54.280
  • Jentezen.
  • 00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:55.230
  • I mean, I--
  • 00:34:55.230 --> 00:34:56.170
  • - Mark: Oh, we can do a duet,
  • 00:34:56.170 --> 00:34:57.090
  • you and I.
  • 00:34:57.090 --> 00:34:58.020
  • - Erwin: I forgot my sax,
  • 00:34:58.020 --> 00:34:59.070
  • my piano, my bass, my drums.
  • 00:34:59.100 --> 00:35:02.120
  • I forgot my talent.
  • 00:35:02.120 --> 00:35:03.190
  • - Mark: Isn't that infuriating?
  • 00:35:03.190 --> 00:35:05.160
  • Yes, I know what you mean.
  • 00:35:05.160 --> 00:35:06.130
  • - Erwin: And that hair.
  • 00:35:06.130 --> 00:35:07.120
  • - Mark: Yeah.
  • 00:35:07.120 --> 00:35:08.080
  • - Erwin: I know.
  • 00:35:08.080 --> 00:35:09.100
  • - Mark: Well, you look good,
  • 00:35:09.100 --> 00:35:10.010
  • though, man.
  • 00:35:10.010 --> 00:35:10.240
  • You look wonderful.
  • 00:35:10.240 --> 00:35:11.180
  • - Erwin: Oh, thanks.
  • 00:35:11.180 --> 00:35:12.250
  • - Mark: Great to see you.
  • 00:35:12.250 --> 00:35:13.150
  • Listen, Erwin is the founder of
  • 00:35:13.150 --> 00:35:15.020
  • Mosaic in Los Angeles,
  • 00:35:15.020 --> 00:35:16.180
  • California.
  • 00:35:16.180 --> 00:35:17.160
  • And the author, among other
  • 00:35:17.160 --> 00:35:18.250
  • things, of "The Artisan Soul,"
  • 00:35:18.250 --> 00:35:21.040
  • a terrific book.
  • 00:35:21.040 --> 00:35:23.000
  • I wanna talk to you about this
  • 00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:24.090
  • book some and then I wanna talk
  • 00:35:24.090 --> 00:35:25.220
  • to you about Erwin McManus.
  • 00:35:25.220 --> 00:35:27.020
  • Why did you--what made you write
  • 00:35:27.020 --> 00:35:29.060
  • this book?
  • 00:35:29.060 --> 00:35:29.270
  • Why did you write "The Artisan
  • 00:35:29.270 --> 00:35:30.290
  • Soul"?
  • 00:35:30.290 --> 00:35:31.250
  • It's a very different book for a
  • 00:35:31.250 --> 00:35:32.270
  • Christian pastor.
  • 00:35:32.270 --> 00:35:34.040
  • - Erwin: It is.
  • 00:35:34.040 --> 00:35:35.190
  • I used to write a lot of books
  • 00:35:35.190 --> 00:35:36.290
  • and I stopped for about 5 or 6
  • 00:35:36.290 --> 00:35:38.070
  • years.
  • 00:35:38.070 --> 00:35:39.080
  • And my wife kept asking me to
  • 00:35:39.080 --> 00:35:41.060
  • write a book.
  • 00:35:41.060 --> 00:35:42.030
  • And she felt like it's something
  • 00:35:42.030 --> 00:35:43.140
  • I was supposed to be doing with
  • 00:35:43.140 --> 00:35:44.220
  • my life and I kind of tabled it
  • 00:35:44.220 --> 00:35:46.000
  • for a long time.
  • 00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:47.070
  • And, frankly, living in Los
  • 00:35:47.070 --> 00:35:49.000
  • Angeles, you have so many people
  • 00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:50.130
  • who come from all over the world
  • 00:35:50.130 --> 00:35:51.170
  • with huge dreams and huge
  • 00:35:51.170 --> 00:35:53.090
  • ambitions and all this
  • 00:35:53.090 --> 00:35:54.170
  • aspiration and they come from
  • 00:35:54.170 --> 00:35:56.090
  • all over the world but they're
  • 00:35:56.090 --> 00:35:57.280
  • the most talented person where
  • 00:35:57.280 --> 00:35:59.120
  • they're from.
  • 00:35:59.120 --> 00:36:00.180
  • Then they come to a city where
  • 00:36:00.180 --> 00:36:02.020
  • their talent is matched by
  • 00:36:02.020 --> 00:36:03.260
  • 10.000 other people.
  • 00:36:03.260 --> 00:36:05.160
  • And I watched their dreams
  • 00:36:05.160 --> 00:36:07.110
  • collapse, their worlds fall
  • 00:36:07.110 --> 00:36:08.210
  • apart, and I just saw life just
  • 00:36:09.010 --> 00:36:12.010
  • drain out of people.
  • 00:36:12.010 --> 00:36:13.290
  • And I began realizing that
  • 00:36:13.290 --> 00:36:15.110
  • there's a small percentage of
  • 00:36:15.110 --> 00:36:16.180
  • people who actually believe that
  • 00:36:16.180 --> 00:36:17.200
  • they're creative but most people
  • 00:36:17.200 --> 00:36:19.100
  • do not believe they're creative.
  • 00:36:19.100 --> 00:36:21.150
  • Most people would say, "Oh, I
  • 00:36:21.150 --> 00:36:23.050
  • admire creativity or I admire
  • 00:36:23.050 --> 00:36:25.000
  • artistic people."
  • 00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:26.200
  • When I was writing this book, my
  • 00:36:26.200 --> 00:36:27.280
  • wife said, "What's it called?"
  • 00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:29.050
  • And I told her it was called
  • 00:36:29.050 --> 00:36:30.040
  • "The Artisan Soul," and she
  • 00:36:30.040 --> 00:36:31.150
  • said, "Oh great, a book for
  • 00:36:31.150 --> 00:36:33.170
  • people like you but not people
  • 00:36:33.170 --> 00:36:35.030
  • like me."
  • 00:36:35.030 --> 00:36:36.140
  • And when she said that, it made
  • 00:36:36.140 --> 00:36:37.230
  • me so angry, I said, "No, this
  • 00:36:37.230 --> 00:36:38.200
  • book is for people like you who
  • 00:36:38.200 --> 00:36:40.050
  • believe the lie that only some
  • 00:36:40.050 --> 00:36:42.230
  • people are creative."
  • 00:36:42.230 --> 00:36:44.030
  • See, if we're created by God,
  • 00:36:44.030 --> 00:36:46.180
  • who is creative, then we are a
  • 00:36:46.180 --> 00:36:49.120
  • reflection of his creativity.
  • 00:36:49.120 --> 00:36:51.230
  • We're created in the image and
  • 00:36:51.230 --> 00:36:52.200
  • likeness of God.
  • 00:36:52.200 --> 00:36:53.210
  • I wrote this book because I
  • 00:36:53.210 --> 00:36:54.210
  • think we have a wrong
  • 00:36:54.210 --> 00:36:55.150
  • understanding of being human.
  • 00:36:55.150 --> 00:36:57.110
  • We don't understand that human
  • 00:36:57.110 --> 00:36:59.030
  • beings are created to create.
  • 00:36:59.030 --> 00:37:01.020
  • We're imagined to imagine.
  • 00:37:01.020 --> 00:37:03.070
  • That our lives are supposed to
  • 00:37:03.070 --> 00:37:05.080
  • be a creative enterprise.
  • 00:37:05.080 --> 00:37:08.030
  • That we are works of art and
  • 00:37:08.030 --> 00:37:09.070
  • artists at work.
  • 00:37:09.070 --> 00:37:10.210
  • And so I wrote this because I
  • 00:37:10.210 --> 00:37:12.000
  • felt like we focus so much on
  • 00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:13.160
  • sin, so much on our weaknesses,
  • 00:37:13.160 --> 00:37:16.070
  • so much on everything that's
  • 00:37:16.070 --> 00:37:17.180
  • wrong with being human, and we
  • 00:37:17.180 --> 00:37:19.200
  • forget that God put his Spirit
  • 00:37:19.200 --> 00:37:21.040
  • in us, he put his image in us,
  • 00:37:21.040 --> 00:37:22.190
  • and every time a human being
  • 00:37:22.190 --> 00:37:24.060
  • imagines something and then does
  • 00:37:24.060 --> 00:37:25.280
  • it, that's a creative act.
  • 00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:27.140
  • - Mark: I love this book
  • 00:37:27.140 --> 00:37:28.290
  • because I thought it made clear
  • 00:37:28.290 --> 00:37:30.110
  • the distinction between talent,
  • 00:37:30.110 --> 00:37:32.290
  • okay, somebody that can play the
  • 00:37:32.290 --> 00:37:34.060
  • saxophone or paint a great
  • 00:37:34.060 --> 00:37:36.000
  • picture, and the inner
  • 00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:38.000
  • creativity that is in every
  • 00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:40.120
  • single person, and that's a very
  • 00:37:40.120 --> 00:37:42.080
  • sharp distinction, isn't it?
  • 00:37:42.080 --> 00:37:44.210
  • - Erwin: It is.
  • 00:37:44.210 --> 00:37:45.140
  • It's--one of the things I have
  • 00:37:45.140 --> 00:37:46.220
  • done as I've traveled the world
  • 00:37:46.220 --> 00:37:48.000
  • is I've asked people, "How many
  • 00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:48.290
  • of you consider yourself
  • 00:37:48.290 --> 00:37:49.230
  • creative?"
  • 00:37:49.230 --> 00:37:51.000
  • Maybe 1% of people, top: 5%.
  • 00:37:51.010 --> 00:37:54.010
  • And so I'll throw a different
  • 00:37:54.010 --> 00:37:55.180
  • question.
  • 00:37:55.180 --> 00:37:56.080
  • I'll say, "How many of you would
  • 00:37:56.080 --> 00:37:57.160
  • consider yourself a linguistic
  • 00:37:57.160 --> 00:37:58.220
  • savant?"
  • 00:37:58.220 --> 00:37:59.180
  • Now you actually are
  • 00:37:59.180 --> 00:38:00.160
  • a linguistic savant.
  • 00:38:00.160 --> 00:38:02.060
  • But I would say maybe 1 out of
  • 00:38:02.060 --> 00:38:04.180
  • 1.000 people will say they're
  • 00:38:04.180 --> 00:38:05.240
  • a linguistic savant.
  • 00:38:05.240 --> 00:38:07.060
  • But the truth is that everyone
  • 00:38:07.060 --> 00:38:09.150
  • who learned English learned it
  • 00:38:09.150 --> 00:38:11.040
  • when they were 18 months old, 2
  • 00:38:11.040 --> 00:38:12.230
  • years old.
  • 00:38:12.230 --> 00:38:13.230
  • You learned how to speak one of
  • 00:38:13.230 --> 00:38:14.290
  • the most difficult languages in
  • 00:38:14.290 --> 00:38:15.210
  • the world when you couldn't even
  • 00:38:15.210 --> 00:38:16.280
  • walk, talk, change your own
  • 00:38:16.280 --> 00:38:18.240
  • diaper, or feed yourself.
  • 00:38:18.240 --> 00:38:21.040
  • And if they had moved you from
  • 00:38:21.040 --> 00:38:22.160
  • the United States to Tokyo,
  • 00:38:22.160 --> 00:38:25.060
  • you'd have learned Japanese.
  • 00:38:25.060 --> 00:38:26.230
  • If they had moved you to the
  • 00:38:26.230 --> 00:38:27.130
  • Philippines, you'd have learned
  • 00:38:27.130 --> 00:38:28.050
  • Tagalog.
  • 00:38:28.050 --> 00:38:28.240
  • If they'd moved you to Germany,
  • 00:38:28.240 --> 00:38:29.180
  • you'd have learned German.
  • 00:38:29.180 --> 00:38:30.260
  • If they'd moved you to England,
  • 00:38:30.260 --> 00:38:31.180
  • you would have finally learned
  • 00:38:31.180 --> 00:38:32.180
  • how to speak English.
  • 00:38:32.180 --> 00:38:33.120
  • - Mark: Learned real English.
  • 00:38:33.120 --> 00:38:34.160
  • - Erwin: That's right.
  • 00:38:34.160 --> 00:38:35.070
  • Because the human being is so
  • 00:38:35.070 --> 00:38:36.120
  • creative, has such huge capacity
  • 00:38:36.120 --> 00:38:38.180
  • that every human being is a
  • 00:38:38.180 --> 00:38:40.020
  • linguistic savant.
  • 00:38:40.020 --> 00:38:41.080
  • But what happens is that this
  • 00:38:41.080 --> 00:38:42.270
  • creative essence that's in all
  • 00:38:42.270 --> 00:38:44.060
  • of us when we're children,
  • 00:38:44.060 --> 00:38:45.190
  • because we learn how to conform.
  • 00:38:47.210 --> 00:38:49.070
  • We learn how to become
  • 00:38:49.070 --> 00:38:50.170
  • standardized.
  • 00:38:50.170 --> 00:38:51.140
  • We learn how to become like
  • 00:38:51.140 --> 00:38:52.070
  • everyone else.
  • 00:38:52.070 --> 00:38:53.110
  • And I love the passage where it
  • 00:38:53.110 --> 00:38:54.230
  • says, "Do not conform to
  • 00:38:54.230 --> 00:38:56.010
  • the pattern of this world."
  • 00:38:56.010 --> 00:38:57.100
  • See, I love flipping that over
  • 00:38:57.100 --> 00:38:58.230
  • and going, "See, the world
  • 00:38:58.230 --> 00:39:00.020
  • will conform you."
  • 00:39:00.020 --> 00:39:01.260
  • God actually unleashes you,
  • 00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:04.280
  • "but be transformed by
  • 00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:06.080
  • the renewing of your minds."
  • 00:39:06.080 --> 00:39:07.130
  • I love the fact that
  • 00:39:07.130 --> 00:39:08.080
  • when you connect to God,
  • 00:39:08.080 --> 00:39:09.030
  • You are now created.
  • 00:39:11.150 --> 00:39:14.020
  • You are recreated and you become
  • 00:39:14.020 --> 00:39:15.210
  • a creative human being.
  • 00:39:15.210 --> 00:39:16.240
  • - Mark: Praise God.
  • 00:39:16.240 --> 00:39:17.260
  • I always--when I'm interviewed
  • 00:39:17.260 --> 00:39:20.100
  • about my books, there's
  • 00:39:20.100 --> 00:39:21.130
  • something that always makes me
  • 00:39:21.130 --> 00:39:22.080
  • nervous when somebody asks me
  • 00:39:22.080 --> 00:39:23.030
  • about a passage.
  • 00:39:23.030 --> 00:39:24.010
  • I'm always afraid I won't be
  • 00:39:24.010 --> 00:39:25.040
  • able to remember.
  • 00:39:25.040 --> 00:39:25.250
  • - Erwin: Yeah, I always tell
  • 00:39:25.250 --> 00:39:26.160
  • 'em, "I don't have the book
  • 00:39:26.160 --> 00:39:27.060
  • memorized.
  • 00:39:27.060 --> 00:39:27.170
  • I haven't even read it."
  • 00:39:27.170 --> 00:39:28.050
  • No, no.
  • 00:39:28.050 --> 00:39:29.020
  • - Mark: Well, I read it.
  • 00:39:29.020 --> 00:39:29.290
  • I read it and there was
  • 00:39:29.290 --> 00:39:31.160
  • a passage in it I found very
  • 00:39:31.160 --> 00:39:33.200
  • intriguing and I just wanna ask
  • 00:39:33.200 --> 00:39:35.190
  • you about it.
  • 00:39:35.190 --> 00:39:36.200
  • You talked about when you took
  • 00:39:36.200 --> 00:39:37.260
  • your degree in art in college
  • 00:39:37.260 --> 00:39:40.030
  • and they would force you to use
  • 00:39:40.030 --> 00:39:42.180
  • a medium that you weren't used
  • 00:39:42.180 --> 00:39:45.010
  • to.
  • 00:39:45.010 --> 00:39:45.190
  • And you talked about the
  • 00:39:45.190 --> 00:39:46.150
  • limiting factor of shifting to a
  • 00:39:46.250 --> 00:39:49.250
  • new medium.
  • 00:39:49.250 --> 00:39:51.060
  • And I found that intriguing in
  • 00:39:51.060 --> 00:39:53.050
  • talking about how you had to
  • 00:39:53.050 --> 00:39:54.090
  • press yourself to move beyond
  • 00:39:54.090 --> 00:39:56.000
  • the limits of your lack of
  • 00:39:56.000 --> 00:39:58.090
  • facility with that medium.
  • 00:39:58.090 --> 00:40:00.110
  • And I found that very
  • 00:40:00.110 --> 00:40:01.120
  • interesting.
  • 00:40:01.120 --> 00:40:02.080
  • - Erwin: Well, I think one of
  • 00:40:02.080 --> 00:40:02.290
  • the misconceptions is that to be
  • 00:40:02.290 --> 00:40:04.090
  • creative means that you have no
  • 00:40:04.090 --> 00:40:05.100
  • boundaries.
  • 00:40:05.100 --> 00:40:06.190
  • But the reality is all
  • 00:40:06.190 --> 00:40:07.250
  • creativity has boundaries.
  • 00:40:07.250 --> 00:40:09.270
  • There are only three primary
  • 00:40:09.270 --> 00:40:11.010
  • colors.
  • 00:40:11.010 --> 00:40:12.080
  • There are only nine digits.
  • 00:40:12.080 --> 00:40:14.200
  • There are only 12 notes on the
  • 00:40:14.200 --> 00:40:16.210
  • piano.
  • 00:40:16.210 --> 00:40:17.110
  • When Jentezen is playing the
  • 00:40:17.110 --> 00:40:18.150
  • sax, there's--he's only playing
  • 00:40:18.150 --> 00:40:19.200
  • 12 notes.
  • 00:40:19.200 --> 00:40:20.120
  • And he'll never be so creative
  • 00:40:20.120 --> 00:40:23.090
  • he'll invent the 13th note.
  • 00:40:23.090 --> 00:40:25.180
  • But human beings can be so
  • 00:40:25.180 --> 00:40:27.170
  • creative they can play those 12
  • 00:40:27.170 --> 00:40:28.270
  • notes in a way that they have
  • 00:40:28.270 --> 00:40:30.060
  • never been played before.
  • 00:40:30.060 --> 00:40:32.220
  • I think the reality is whenever
  • 00:40:32.220 --> 00:40:34.120
  • you're moving from one genre to
  • 00:40:34.120 --> 00:40:35.040
  • another, and you have to learn
  • 00:40:35.040 --> 00:40:37.190
  • the rules of the game.
  • 00:40:37.190 --> 00:40:39.000
  • And you can't allow the
  • 00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:40.170
  • limitations to be an excuse
  • 00:40:40.170 --> 00:40:43.170
  • to limit you.
  • 00:40:43.170 --> 00:40:44.190
  • The boundaries give you the
  • 00:40:44.190 --> 00:40:47.040
  • context for the limitless.
  • 00:40:47.230 --> 00:40:50.230
  • And, you know, so we're human
  • 00:40:50.230 --> 00:40:52.270
  • beings and we have so many
  • 00:40:52.270 --> 00:40:55.030
  • limitations and yet the reality
  • 00:40:55.030 --> 00:40:56.250
  • is that we have this incredible
  • 00:40:56.250 --> 00:40:59.070
  • gift called the imagination.
  • 00:40:59.070 --> 00:41:00.230
  • We can dream things we've never
  • 00:41:00.230 --> 00:41:02.120
  • dreamed, we can become someone
  • 00:41:02.120 --> 00:41:03.190
  • we've never become.
  • 00:41:03.190 --> 00:41:05.070
  • We can do things we've never
  • 00:41:05.070 --> 00:41:05.280
  • done.
  • 00:41:05.280 --> 00:41:06.170
  • We can go places we've never
  • 00:41:06.170 --> 00:41:07.070
  • been.
  • 00:41:07.070 --> 00:41:08.140
  • Only human beings can do that.
  • 00:41:08.140 --> 00:41:09.280
  • Gazelles can't do that.
  • 00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:10.220
  • Beavers can't do that.
  • 00:41:10.220 --> 00:41:11.220
  • Squirrels can't do that.
  • 00:41:11.220 --> 00:41:12.270
  • Human beings imagine a future
  • 00:41:12.270 --> 00:41:15.070
  • and then we create it.
  • 00:41:15.070 --> 00:41:16.060
  • And that's one of the, I think,
  • 00:41:16.060 --> 00:41:17.110
  • things that is so important in
  • 00:41:17.110 --> 00:41:18.140
  • the book, is that in the same
  • 00:41:18.140 --> 00:41:20.040
  • way that bees create hives
  • 00:41:20.040 --> 00:41:22.000
  • and ants create colonies,
  • 00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:23.020
  • humans create futures.
  • 00:41:23.020 --> 00:41:25.060
  • And that this is a part of the
  • 00:41:25.060 --> 00:41:27.090
  • human process.
  • 00:41:27.090 --> 00:41:29.010
  • We actually begin to dream, to
  • 00:41:29.010 --> 00:41:30.120
  • imagine, have visions of the
  • 00:41:30.120 --> 00:41:32.060
  • future.
  • 00:41:32.060 --> 00:41:33.090
  • And then if we find the courage
  • 00:41:33.090 --> 00:41:35.030
  • and passion to do it, we will
  • 00:41:35.030 --> 00:41:36.230
  • actually create the future
  • 00:41:36.230 --> 00:41:38.030
  • that's in our imagination.
  • 00:41:38.030 --> 00:41:39.090
  • - Mark: You reminded me,
  • 00:41:39.090 --> 00:41:40.130
  • I remember a quote by
  • 00:41:40.130 --> 00:41:42.080
  • Oswald Chambers and it's quite
  • 00:41:42.080 --> 00:41:44.170
  • a shocking quote, actually.
  • 00:41:44.170 --> 00:41:46.070
  • He said, "Only after our
  • 00:41:46.070 --> 00:41:48.190
  • salvation in the Holy Spirit,
  • 00:41:48.190 --> 00:41:50.210
  • the greatest gift of God to
  • 00:41:50.210 --> 00:41:52.200
  • humanity, is imagination."
  • 00:41:52.200 --> 00:41:54.160
  • - Erwin: Absolutely.
  • 00:41:54.160 --> 00:41:55.160
  • - Mark: That's a remarkable
  • 00:41:55.160 --> 00:41:56.210
  • statement, isn't it?
  • 00:41:56.210 --> 00:41:57.220
  • - Erwin: And you--when I became
  • 00:41:57.220 --> 00:41:59.000
  • a follower of Christ, I was told
  • 00:41:59.000 --> 00:41:59.290
  • not to use my imagination.
  • 00:41:59.290 --> 00:42:01.070
  • - Mark: Hmm.
  • 00:42:01.070 --> 00:42:02.020
  • - Erwin: They could say, "No,
  • 00:42:02.020 --> 00:42:03.030
  • you're not supposed to do that
  • 00:42:03.030 --> 00:42:03.290
  • because that's New Age."
  • 00:42:03.290 --> 00:42:05.080
  • I'd never even heard of New Age
  • 00:42:05.080 --> 00:42:06.090
  • but they kept telling me it was
  • 00:42:06.090 --> 00:42:07.100
  • New Age.
  • 00:42:07.100 --> 00:42:08.110
  • And I thought, "How could this
  • 00:42:08.110 --> 00:42:09.040
  • be wrong when God gave us the
  • 00:42:09.040 --> 00:42:10.270
  • imagination?"
  • 00:42:10.270 --> 00:42:11.240
  • I had this Chinese engineer come
  • 00:42:12.010 --> 00:42:15.010
  • up to me and he said, "I'm an
  • 00:42:15.010 --> 00:42:16.210
  • atheist and you keep talking
  • 00:42:16.210 --> 00:42:17.280
  • about hearing the voice of God.
  • 00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:19.040
  • What does God's voice sound
  • 00:42:19.040 --> 00:42:20.110
  • like?"
  • 00:42:20.110 --> 00:42:21.080
  • And I said, "Well, you're an
  • 00:42:21.080 --> 00:42:22.170
  • atheist, right?"
  • 00:42:22.170 --> 00:42:23.090
  • He said, "Yes."
  • 00:42:23.090 --> 00:42:23.270
  • "Well, it doesn't sound like
  • 00:42:23.270 --> 00:42:24.170
  • anything 'cause you're an
  • 00:42:24.170 --> 00:42:25.090
  • atheist so he doesn't exist."
  • 00:42:25.090 --> 00:42:26.050
  • - Mark: I love it.
  • 00:42:26.050 --> 00:42:26.280
  • - Erwin: He goes, "What does it
  • 00:42:26.280 --> 00:42:28.160
  • sound like to you?"
  • 00:42:28.160 --> 00:42:30.200
  • And I told him, I said, "You
  • 00:42:30.200 --> 00:42:31.250
  • ever had all these voices in
  • 00:42:31.250 --> 00:42:33.280
  • your head?
  • 00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:34.250
  • Voices, you don't even know how
  • 00:42:34.250 --> 00:42:36.000
  • they got there?
  • 00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:37.090
  • Some voices that tell you, 'Yes,
  • 00:42:37.090 --> 00:42:38.180
  • you can,' other voices that,
  • 00:42:38.180 --> 00:42:39.190
  • 'No, you can't'?"
  • 00:42:39.190 --> 00:42:40.200
  • He goes, "Yeah."
  • 00:42:40.200 --> 00:42:41.120
  • And I said, "Do you have a voice
  • 00:42:41.120 --> 00:42:42.080
  • inside your head, it's like a
  • 00:42:42.080 --> 00:42:43.010
  • parasite that eats away at your
  • 00:42:43.010 --> 00:42:44.010
  • brain, saying, 'There is a God,
  • 00:42:44.010 --> 00:42:45.090
  • there is a God.'
  • 00:42:45.090 --> 00:42:46.190
  • Even though you know there is no
  • 00:42:46.190 --> 00:42:47.110
  • God, you can't shut that little
  • 00:42:47.110 --> 00:42:48.100
  • voice off.
  • 00:42:48.100 --> 00:42:49.180
  • You don't even know how it got
  • 00:42:49.180 --> 00:42:50.090
  • there 'cause inside of your
  • 00:42:50.090 --> 00:42:50.290
  • brain, all those voices are
  • 00:42:50.290 --> 00:42:52.010
  • supposed to be you.
  • 00:42:52.010 --> 00:42:53.190
  • Is it like a parasite, eating
  • 00:42:53.190 --> 00:42:54.150
  • away at your head?"
  • 00:42:54.150 --> 00:42:55.150
  • And he goes, "Yes!
  • 00:42:55.150 --> 00:42:56.140
  • There's a parasite in my head
  • 00:42:56.140 --> 00:42:57.140
  • that keeps saying,
  • 00:42:57.140 --> 00:42:58.030
  • 'There's a God.'"
  • 00:42:58.030 --> 00:42:58.250
  • I said, "See, that's God."
  • 00:42:58.250 --> 00:43:00.270
  • And, see, I am convinced
  • 00:43:01.190 --> 00:43:04.190
  • that the imagination
  • 00:43:04.190 --> 00:43:05.290
  • is God's playground.
  • 00:43:05.290 --> 00:43:07.030
  • That he gave us the imagination
  • 00:43:07.030 --> 00:43:08.250
  • because there's no place else
  • 00:43:08.250 --> 00:43:10.030
  • that he could meet us, this
  • 00:43:10.030 --> 00:43:11.170
  • God who was all powerful,
  • 00:43:11.170 --> 00:43:12.240
  • all present, all knowing.
  • 00:43:12.240 --> 00:43:14.070
  • This God who is beyond time
  • 00:43:14.070 --> 00:43:15.240
  • and space.
  • 00:43:15.240 --> 00:43:16.280
  • How in the world could he meet
  • 00:43:16.280 --> 00:43:18.000
  • us anywhere else except for
  • 00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:19.120
  • this material that we know is
  • 00:43:19.120 --> 00:43:20.230
  • the imagination?
  • 00:43:20.230 --> 00:43:22.010
  • - Mark: Wow.
  • 00:43:22.010 --> 00:43:23.010
  • All right, let's go back to that
  • 00:43:23.010 --> 00:43:23.250
  • one statement.
  • 00:43:23.250 --> 00:43:24.230
  • You're talking about the rules
  • 00:43:24.230 --> 00:43:26.260
  • of the medium, that there's--the
  • 00:43:26.260 --> 00:43:28.240
  • limits, that these limits of the
  • 00:43:28.240 --> 00:43:30.200
  • medium.
  • 00:43:30.200 --> 00:43:31.110
  • That being true, then, life and
  • 00:43:31.110 --> 00:43:33.280
  • art collide when we don't have
  • 00:43:33.280 --> 00:43:36.140
  • any limits on our lives, right?
  • 00:43:36.140 --> 00:43:39.000
  • So say, for example, a guy
  • 00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:40.290
  • like--take Mozart who probably
  • 00:43:40.290 --> 00:43:43.080
  • was as great--had as great an
  • 00:43:43.080 --> 00:43:45.130
  • imagination by music as
  • 00:43:45.130 --> 00:43:46.180
  • possible, but his life wouldn't
  • 00:43:46.180 --> 00:43:48.220
  • accept the limits and it
  • 00:43:48.220 --> 00:43:49.290
  • corrupted his art, which some
  • 00:43:49.290 --> 00:43:52.020
  • people say, "Well, he's so--he
  • 00:43:52.020 --> 00:43:52.240
  • was so creative," but what might
  • 00:43:52.240 --> 00:43:54.110
  • he have created if he had lived
  • 00:43:54.110 --> 00:43:56.210
  • beyond the age that he lived in
  • 00:43:56.210 --> 00:43:57.230
  • so stoned out of his skull.
  • 00:43:57.230 --> 00:44:00.070
  • What might he--what symphony did
  • 00:44:00.070 --> 00:44:01.240
  • we miss because he wouldn't
  • 00:44:01.240 --> 00:44:03.100
  • accept the limits?
  • 00:44:03.100 --> 00:44:04.150
  • - Erwin: Absolutely.
  • 00:44:04.150 --> 00:44:05.090
  • And the reality is, the material
  • 00:44:05.090 --> 00:44:06.220
  • from which we create is our
  • 00:44:06.220 --> 00:44:08.050
  • soul.
  • 00:44:08.050 --> 00:44:10.060
  • Everything that humans create is
  • 00:44:10.060 --> 00:44:12.120
  • an extension of the human
  • 00:44:12.120 --> 00:44:14.070
  • spirit.
  • 00:44:14.070 --> 00:44:15.050
  • The furniture that you see, the
  • 00:44:15.050 --> 00:44:17.000
  • glass, the books, everything,
  • 00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:19.050
  • the cameras, the lights,
  • 00:44:19.050 --> 00:44:20.250
  • everything has been created by
  • 00:44:20.250 --> 00:44:21.220
  • human being actually began in
  • 00:44:21.220 --> 00:44:23.000
  • the human imagination.
  • 00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:24.160
  • And so everything that we see in
  • 00:44:24.160 --> 00:44:26.100
  • the material world is actually
  • 00:44:26.100 --> 00:44:27.240
  • the externalization
  • 00:44:27.240 --> 00:44:29.080
  • of the human imagination.
  • 00:44:29.080 --> 00:44:32.000
  • And so if you do not take care
  • 00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:33.140
  • of your soul, then your soul
  • 00:44:33.140 --> 00:44:36.050
  • informs your imagination and
  • 00:44:36.050 --> 00:44:37.210
  • you begin to have dark thoughts
  • 00:44:37.210 --> 00:44:39.200
  • and dark universes and you begin
  • 00:44:39.200 --> 00:44:41.030
  • to create a world that's
  • 00:44:41.030 --> 00:44:42.130
  • filled with pain and brokenness
  • 00:44:42.130 --> 00:44:43.120
  • and darkness.
  • 00:44:43.120 --> 00:44:44.140
  • And I'm so convinced that's
  • 00:44:44.140 --> 00:44:46.040
  • why the Scriptures tell us to
  • 00:44:46.040 --> 00:44:47.010
  • guard our hearts, because what's
  • 00:44:47.010 --> 00:44:48.270
  • in our hearts is the material
  • 00:44:48.270 --> 00:44:50.170
  • from which we will create
  • 00:44:50.170 --> 00:44:51.200
  • the future that humanity
  • 00:44:51.200 --> 00:44:53.180
  • will have to deal with.
  • 00:44:53.180 --> 00:44:54.240
  • And I love the fact,
  • 00:44:54.240 --> 00:44:56.130
  • though, that God can speak
  • 00:44:56.130 --> 00:44:58.190
  • into our lives and take us
  • 00:44:58.190 --> 00:45:00.260
  • beyond our capacity,
  • 00:45:00.260 --> 00:45:02.120
  • beyond our imagination.
  • 00:45:02.120 --> 00:45:03.140
  • You know, I can't do what
  • 00:45:03.140 --> 00:45:05.130
  • Jentezen does because I never
  • 00:45:05.130 --> 00:45:06.160
  • had the discipline to learn
  • 00:45:06.160 --> 00:45:08.050
  • what Jentezen learned.
  • 00:45:08.050 --> 00:45:09.260
  • And a lot of people wanna play
  • 00:45:09.260 --> 00:45:11.010
  • like Mozart but they don't wanna
  • 00:45:11.010 --> 00:45:12.120
  • discipline their lives like
  • 00:45:12.120 --> 00:45:13.110
  • Mozart.
  • 00:45:13.110 --> 00:45:14.100
  • And we have a mythology of
  • 00:45:14.100 --> 00:45:15.200
  • greatness.
  • 00:45:15.200 --> 00:45:16.110
  • We wanna be as great as
  • 00:45:16.110 --> 00:45:17.190
  • Michael Jordan without ever
  • 00:45:17.190 --> 00:45:18.270
  • doing the work.
  • 00:45:18.270 --> 00:45:19.230
  • You know, we wanna be able to,
  • 00:45:19.230 --> 00:45:21.030
  • you know, to be like Einstein
  • 00:45:21.030 --> 00:45:22.210
  • without really digging into
  • 00:45:22.210 --> 00:45:23.180
  • the math.
  • 00:45:23.180 --> 00:45:24.110
  • And the reality is that
  • 00:45:24.110 --> 00:45:25.290
  • every great endeavor requires
  • 00:45:25.290 --> 00:45:27.070
  • great discipline.
  • 00:45:27.070 --> 00:45:28.200
  • That eventually, hard work,
  • 00:45:28.200 --> 00:45:31.010
  • it gets mistaken as talent.
  • 00:45:31.010 --> 00:45:33.290
  • And perseverance
  • 00:45:33.290 --> 00:45:35.060
  • is mistaken as genius.
  • 00:45:35.060 --> 00:45:37.040
  • So when you look at someone like
  • 00:45:37.040 --> 00:45:38.000
  • Mozart, this is, I think, the
  • 00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:39.110
  • complexity of being human.
  • 00:45:39.110 --> 00:45:40.250
  • You can be brilliant and you can
  • 00:45:40.250 --> 00:45:42.270
  • solve all kinds of math
  • 00:45:42.270 --> 00:45:44.000
  • problems.
  • 00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:44.280
  • You can become a genius at
  • 00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:45.210
  • physics but if you don't deal
  • 00:45:45.210 --> 00:45:47.030
  • with the character issues of
  • 00:45:47.030 --> 00:45:48.050
  • your life, you will actually
  • 00:45:48.050 --> 00:45:49.170
  • create a destructive end for
  • 00:45:49.170 --> 00:45:52.010
  • yourself and for others.
  • 00:45:52.010 --> 00:45:53.100
  • Because I might create a
  • 00:45:53.100 --> 00:45:55.050
  • beautiful work of art but my
  • 00:45:55.050 --> 00:45:56.280
  • life ends up being a disaster.
  • 00:45:56.280 --> 00:45:59.000
  • And our lives are supposed to be
  • 00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:00.220
  • our greatest work of art.
  • 00:46:00.220 --> 00:46:02.070
  • - Mark: Wow, and as a man
  • 00:46:02.070 --> 00:46:04.000
  • thinketh in his heart, so is he.
  • 00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:05.260
  • - Erwin: Absolutely.
  • 00:46:05.260 --> 00:46:07.120
  • - Mark: So let's suppose I'm
  • 00:46:07.120 --> 00:46:09.210
  • sitting at home watching
  • 00:46:09.210 --> 00:46:11.150
  • Erwin McManus right now and
  • 00:46:11.150 --> 00:46:13.010
  • he's talking and I think,
  • 00:46:13.010 --> 00:46:14.230
  • "Wow, this is--this guy is
  • 00:46:14.230 --> 00:46:16.190
  • really a thinker.
  • 00:46:16.190 --> 00:46:18.090
  • This is a--he's outside the box.
  • 00:46:18.090 --> 00:46:20.050
  • But this book is not for me.
  • 00:46:20.050 --> 00:46:22.140
  • I don't--I'm not an artisan
  • 00:46:22.140 --> 00:46:23.270
  • soul.
  • 00:46:23.270 --> 00:46:24.120
  • I don't create--I work in a shoe
  • 00:46:24.270 --> 00:46:27.270
  • factory.
  • 00:46:27.270 --> 00:46:28.270
  • All I do all day is stitch the
  • 00:46:28.270 --> 00:46:30.000
  • same nine stitches every day,
  • 00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:31.180
  • all day.
  • 00:46:31.180 --> 00:46:32.120
  • This book just isn't for me."
  • 00:46:32.120 --> 00:46:33.120
  • What do you say to that guy?
  • 00:46:33.120 --> 00:46:34.230
  • - Erwin: Yeah, the title of the
  • 00:46:34.230 --> 00:46:36.280
  • book is probably it's greatest
  • 00:46:36.280 --> 00:46:39.010
  • obstacle because when I wrote
  • 00:46:39.010 --> 00:46:41.020
  • "The Artisan Soul," I was
  • 00:46:41.020 --> 00:46:42.160
  • writing it for everyone who
  • 00:46:42.160 --> 00:46:43.270
  • doesn't believe they're an
  • 00:46:43.270 --> 00:46:44.240
  • artist.
  • 00:46:44.240 --> 00:46:45.160
  • I was writing it for everyone
  • 00:46:45.160 --> 00:46:46.270
  • who doesn't believe they're
  • 00:46:46.270 --> 00:46:47.210
  • creative.
  • 00:46:47.210 --> 00:46:48.210
  • But I was also writing it for
  • 00:46:48.210 --> 00:46:49.230
  • everyone who knows there's
  • 00:46:49.230 --> 00:46:51.020
  • something inside of them that's
  • 00:46:51.020 --> 00:46:52.250
  • waiting to be awakened but they
  • 00:46:52.250 --> 00:46:54.100
  • can't figure out how to wake it
  • 00:46:54.100 --> 00:46:55.240
  • up.
  • 00:46:55.240 --> 00:46:57.060
  • It's almost as if their soul is
  • 00:46:57.060 --> 00:46:58.060
  • asleep, that their talent is in
  • 00:46:58.060 --> 00:47:00.020
  • a deep state of status, and
  • 00:47:01.220 --> 00:47:04.220
  • they cannot unleash all that
  • 00:47:04.220 --> 00:47:06.240
  • creative potential in their
  • 00:47:06.240 --> 00:47:08.060
  • life.
  • 00:47:08.060 --> 00:47:08.290
  • So what I would say is that this
  • 00:47:08.290 --> 00:47:09.250
  • book is not written for the
  • 00:47:09.250 --> 00:47:10.260
  • person who's saying, "I wake up
  • 00:47:10.260 --> 00:47:12.050
  • every day, full of my creative
  • 00:47:12.050 --> 00:47:14.180
  • essence.
  • 00:47:14.180 --> 00:47:15.050
  • I know I'm creative.
  • 00:47:15.050 --> 00:47:16.060
  • I know I'm artistic.
  • 00:47:16.060 --> 00:47:17.060
  • I am bringing everything to
  • 00:47:17.060 --> 00:47:18.080
  • every day."
  • 00:47:18.080 --> 00:47:19.050
  • This is for the person who's
  • 00:47:19.050 --> 00:47:20.090
  • sitting at home, going, "There
  • 00:47:20.090 --> 00:47:21.200
  • has to be more to my life than
  • 00:47:21.200 --> 00:47:23.110
  • what I'm living."
  • 00:47:23.110 --> 00:47:24.130
  • - Mark: Wow. Great.
  • 00:47:24.130 --> 00:47:25.130
  • - Erwin: "I feel like I'm
  • 00:47:25.130 --> 00:47:26.100
  • existing and I'm not thriving.
  • 00:47:26.100 --> 00:47:28.160
  • I'm conforming but I'm not
  • 00:47:28.160 --> 00:47:30.090
  • creating."
  • 00:47:30.090 --> 00:47:31.080
  • I wrote this book because I want
  • 00:47:31.080 --> 00:47:32.200
  • to set people free from
  • 00:47:32.200 --> 00:47:34.280
  • believing that they are just
  • 00:47:34.280 --> 00:47:36.070
  • cogs in a machine and that we
  • 00:47:36.070 --> 00:47:38.180
  • are created by God to create
  • 00:47:38.180 --> 00:47:41.030
  • something beautiful.
  • 00:47:41.030 --> 00:47:41.270
  • To me, the great tragedy is that
  • 00:47:41.270 --> 00:47:43.170
  • there is something beautiful
  • 00:47:43.170 --> 00:47:44.210
  • that's supposed to be created by
  • 00:47:44.210 --> 00:47:45.230
  • every human being.
  • 00:47:45.230 --> 00:47:47.040
  • There's a work of art that their
  • 00:47:47.040 --> 00:47:49.050
  • life is supposed to become.
  • 00:47:49.050 --> 00:47:50.160
  • And the tragedy is if you live
  • 00:47:50.160 --> 00:47:52.120
  • and die and never give that
  • 00:47:52.120 --> 00:47:54.230
  • masterpiece to the world.
  • 00:47:54.230 --> 00:47:56.070
  • - Mark: Praise God.
  • 00:47:56.070 --> 00:47:57.070
  • That's wonderful.
  • 00:47:57.070 --> 00:47:58.040
  • I love it.
  • 00:47:58.040 --> 00:47:59.050
  • I love it.
  • 00:47:59.050 --> 00:48:00.150
  • I wanna come back to the book in
  • 00:48:00.150 --> 00:48:03.080
  • a minute but, right now, I wanna
  • 00:48:03.080 --> 00:48:04.110
  • ask you something about Mosaic.
  • 00:48:04.110 --> 00:48:05.180
  • It's--Mosaic's been quite
  • 00:48:05.180 --> 00:48:07.090
  • a fixture in the Los Angeles
  • 00:48:07.090 --> 00:48:09.270
  • community for a while but it's
  • 00:48:09.270 --> 00:48:10.280
  • gone through some transitions,
  • 00:48:10.280 --> 00:48:12.210
  • hasn't it?
  • 00:48:12.210 --> 00:48:13.170
  • You've really kind of
  • 00:48:13.170 --> 00:48:14.260
  • experienced some ups and downs
  • 00:48:14.260 --> 00:48:17.070
  • there.
  • 00:48:17.070 --> 00:48:18.010
  • Tell us something about what's
  • 00:48:18.010 --> 00:48:18.220
  • going on with Mosaic.
  • 00:48:18.220 --> 00:48:19.220
  • - Erwin: Well, Mosaic is our
  • 00:48:19.220 --> 00:48:20.220
  • church.
  • 00:48:20.220 --> 00:48:21.200
  • And I love Mosaic.
  • 00:48:21.200 --> 00:48:23.130
  • Mosaic has saved my life.
  • 00:48:23.130 --> 00:48:25.090
  • If it's saved anyone's life, it
  • 00:48:25.090 --> 00:48:26.180
  • has saved mine over the years.
  • 00:48:26.180 --> 00:48:28.040
  • I think one of the unique things
  • 00:48:28.040 --> 00:48:29.130
  • about Mosaic is that Mosaic has
  • 00:48:29.130 --> 00:48:30.140
  • thousands and thousands of
  • 00:48:30.140 --> 00:48:32.110
  • artists who come, people
  • 00:48:32.110 --> 00:48:34.140
  • who--their core essence is to
  • 00:48:34.140 --> 00:48:36.140
  • create, to imagine, to dream.
  • 00:48:36.150 --> 00:48:39.150
  • And at the same time, that means
  • 00:48:39.150 --> 00:48:40.260
  • there's a lot of dysfunction, a
  • 00:48:40.260 --> 00:48:42.140
  • lot of brokenness, a lot of
  • 00:48:42.140 --> 00:48:43.190
  • pain.
  • 00:48:43.190 --> 00:48:44.190
  • And--but in the midst of that,
  • 00:48:44.190 --> 00:48:47.140
  • you have all of this creative
  • 00:48:47.140 --> 00:48:49.100
  • potential.
  • 00:48:49.100 --> 00:48:50.090
  • The average age of our church is
  • 00:48:50.090 --> 00:48:51.180
  • 26 years old.
  • 00:48:51.180 --> 00:48:52.210
  • - Mark: Ohh.
  • 00:48:52.210 --> 00:48:53.160
  • - Erwin: And it's so much fun
  • 00:48:53.160 --> 00:48:55.020
  • to watch people come at this
  • 00:48:55.020 --> 00:48:57.070
  • early stage in their life
  • 00:48:57.070 --> 00:48:58.120
  • but can--imagine this.
  • 00:48:58.120 --> 00:49:00.020
  • Imagine a 26-year-old who's
  • 00:49:00.020 --> 00:49:01.250
  • already had the core dream of
  • 00:49:01.250 --> 00:49:03.230
  • their life crushed.
  • 00:49:03.230 --> 00:49:05.120
  • And we named the church Mosaic
  • 00:49:05.120 --> 00:49:07.080
  • because a mosaic is an art form
  • 00:49:07.080 --> 00:49:08.100
  • of broken and fragmented pieces
  • 00:49:08.100 --> 00:49:10.140
  • that are brought together to
  • 00:49:10.140 --> 00:49:11.130
  • create something beautiful,
  • 00:49:11.130 --> 00:49:13.000
  • especially when light strikes
  • 00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:14.000
  • through it.
  • 00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:14.280
  • And we wanted to say, "Look,
  • 00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:15.270
  • we're all mosaics.
  • 00:49:15.270 --> 00:49:17.070
  • We're all broken and fragmented
  • 00:49:17.070 --> 00:49:18.080
  • pieces, but God can bring us
  • 00:49:18.080 --> 00:49:19.230
  • together to create something
  • 00:49:19.230 --> 00:49:20.240
  • beautiful, especially when his
  • 00:49:20.240 --> 00:49:22.000
  • light strikes through us."
  • 00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:23.270
  • So we're right on the corner of
  • 00:49:23.270 --> 00:49:24.290
  • Hollywood Boulevard and Le Brea.
  • 00:49:24.290 --> 00:49:26.250
  • It's an insane corner.
  • 00:49:26.250 --> 00:49:29.040
  • I mean, people run up to me, go,
  • 00:49:29.040 --> 00:49:30.220
  • "Michael Jackson's in
  • 00:49:30.220 --> 00:49:31.200
  • the building," and I go,
  • 00:49:31.200 --> 00:49:32.170
  • "Michael Jackson is dead."
  • 00:49:32.170 --> 00:49:34.220
  • And you know,
  • 00:49:34.220 --> 00:49:36.050
  • but we are the church
  • 00:49:36.050 --> 00:49:37.040
  • where Darth Vader will walk in
  • 00:49:37.040 --> 00:49:38.100
  • and Spiderman will walk in.
  • 00:49:38.100 --> 00:49:40.220
  • We're also the church that's had
  • 00:49:40.220 --> 00:49:42.010
  • 3 bomb threats over the last 6
  • 00:49:42.010 --> 00:49:43.090
  • months and, you know, the bomb
  • 00:49:43.090 --> 00:49:45.180
  • squads have shut down our
  • 00:49:45.180 --> 00:49:46.280
  • worship services on Sundays
  • 00:49:46.280 --> 00:49:48.090
  • because of the threat of human
  • 00:49:48.120 --> 00:49:51.120
  • life.
  • 00:49:51.120 --> 00:49:52.220
  • I mean, it's in the center of--I
  • 00:49:52.220 --> 00:49:54.150
  • think it's in the center of
  • 00:49:54.150 --> 00:49:57.090
  • the human conflict.
  • 00:49:57.090 --> 00:49:59.010
  • Los Angeles inhales the world
  • 00:49:59.010 --> 00:50:02.010
  • and it can exhale the gospel.
  • 00:50:02.010 --> 00:50:04.070
  • And if you took this planet and
  • 00:50:04.230 --> 00:50:07.230
  • looked at it as a human body,
  • 00:50:07.230 --> 00:50:10.020
  • Los Angeles is the lungs.
  • 00:50:10.020 --> 00:50:13.010
  • It may not be the heart of the
  • 00:50:13.010 --> 00:50:14.150
  • world but it definitely is the
  • 00:50:14.150 --> 00:50:15.250
  • lungs.
  • 00:50:15.250 --> 00:50:16.240
  • And if we can get the life of
  • 00:50:16.240 --> 00:50:18.210
  • Jesus into that city, it will
  • 00:50:18.210 --> 00:50:20.270
  • exhale Jesus across the world.
  • 00:50:20.270 --> 00:50:23.090
  • - Mark: Praise God.
  • 00:50:23.090 --> 00:50:24.030
  • Praise God.
  • 00:50:24.030 --> 00:50:25.040
  • You know, you told me one time,
  • 00:50:25.220 --> 00:50:28.220
  • you did a survey--just got a
  • 00:50:28.220 --> 00:50:30.270
  • couple of minutes here, but you
  • 00:50:30.270 --> 00:50:32.210
  • did a survey one--on a Sunday
  • 00:50:32.210 --> 00:50:34.050
  • morning and several thousand
  • 00:50:34.050 --> 00:50:35.110
  • people there.
  • 00:50:35.110 --> 00:50:36.020
  • I don't remember, 8.000 people,
  • 00:50:36.020 --> 00:50:37.070
  • whatever it was.
  • 00:50:37.070 --> 00:50:38.030
  • And you asked how many are
  • 00:50:38.030 --> 00:50:39.230
  • atheists.
  • 00:50:39.230 --> 00:50:40.130
  • I don't know how you did the
  • 00:50:40.130 --> 00:50:41.050
  • survey.
  • 00:50:41.050 --> 00:50:42.000
  • Tell us about that.
  • 00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:42.260
  • I wanna hear about that survey
  • 00:50:42.260 --> 00:50:43.210
  • again.
  • 00:50:43.210 --> 00:50:44.110
  • - Erwin: Yeah, we have an
  • 00:50:44.110 --> 00:50:45.100
  • unusual number of atheists that
  • 00:50:45.100 --> 00:50:46.050
  • come to Mosaic.
  • 00:50:46.050 --> 00:50:47.210
  • And a part of it is we actually
  • 00:50:47.210 --> 00:50:48.130
  • went out and recruited them.
  • 00:50:48.130 --> 00:50:50.110
  • We just tried saying, "You don't
  • 00:50:50.110 --> 00:50:51.200
  • have to believe with us to be
  • 00:50:51.200 --> 00:50:53.210
  • with us."
  • 00:50:53.210 --> 00:50:54.220
  • Say, "We're gonna love you."
  • 00:50:54.220 --> 00:50:56.190
  • And I would tell--I would just
  • 00:50:56.190 --> 00:50:57.140
  • start saying to all the atheists
  • 00:50:57.140 --> 00:50:58.160
  • who started coming, "Tell your
  • 00:50:58.160 --> 00:50:59.200
  • friends, 'cause atheists are
  • 00:50:59.200 --> 00:51:01.060
  • great at science and math but
  • 00:51:01.060 --> 00:51:02.210
  • you're terrible at creating
  • 00:51:02.210 --> 00:51:03.140
  • community.
  • 00:51:03.140 --> 00:51:04.140
  • And so why don't you borrow
  • 00:51:04.140 --> 00:51:05.170
  • community from us?
  • 00:51:05.170 --> 00:51:06.160
  • We're really good at creating
  • 00:51:06.160 --> 00:51:07.070
  • it."
  • 00:51:07.070 --> 00:51:07.260
  • So on Easter, we had about 8.000
  • 00:51:07.260 --> 00:51:09.170
  • people and I did an invitation
  • 00:51:09.170 --> 00:51:12.100
  • time and we had these little
  • 00:51:12.100 --> 00:51:13.140
  • lights and I said, "All right,
  • 00:51:13.140 --> 00:51:14.220
  • if you're here and you're an
  • 00:51:14.220 --> 00:51:15.210
  • atheist and you would say, 'I am
  • 00:51:15.210 --> 00:51:16.280
  • an atheist but if God were out
  • 00:51:16.280 --> 00:51:19.200
  • there, I'd love for him to find
  • 00:51:19.200 --> 00:51:21.010
  • me.'"
  • 00:51:21.010 --> 00:51:22.020
  • We had over 1.000 atheists
  • 00:51:22.020 --> 00:51:24.120
  • respond that day.
  • 00:51:24.120 --> 00:51:26.060
  • And what I love about our
  • 00:51:27.010 --> 00:51:30.010
  • community is, it's one of those
  • 00:51:30.010 --> 00:51:32.290
  • strange places that Christians
  • 00:51:32.290 --> 00:51:34.190
  • come up to me and tell me, "I
  • 00:51:34.190 --> 00:51:35.130
  • didn't feel comfortable at your
  • 00:51:35.130 --> 00:51:36.290
  • church because I was
  • 00:51:36.290 --> 00:51:37.270
  • outnumbered."
  • 00:51:37.270 --> 00:51:39.010
  • - Mark: That's interesting.
  • 00:51:39.010 --> 00:51:40.200
  • - Erwin: It's one of those rare
  • 00:51:40.200 --> 00:51:41.160
  • places that if you actually come
  • 00:51:41.160 --> 00:51:43.020
  • from a church and you're a
  • 00:51:43.020 --> 00:51:44.170
  • Christian, you may actually feel
  • 00:51:44.170 --> 00:51:46.010
  • like you're in a minority
  • 00:51:46.010 --> 00:51:47.110
  • because there's so many people
  • 00:51:47.110 --> 00:51:48.280
  • who come who don't know God.
  • 00:51:48.280 --> 00:51:50.100
  • In fact, I was in Australia and
  • 00:51:50.100 --> 00:51:52.000
  • talking to some friends of ours
  • 00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:53.140
  • at a church and they said,
  • 00:51:53.140 --> 00:51:54.180
  • "We recommended your church to
  • 00:51:54.180 --> 00:51:55.290
  • a friend of ours.
  • 00:51:55.290 --> 00:51:56.290
  • And he said, 'Oh, no, I don't
  • 00:51:56.290 --> 00:51:58.090
  • want to go there.
  • 00:51:58.090 --> 00:51:59.040
  • It must be a cult.'"
  • 00:51:59.040 --> 00:52:00.140
  • And they said, "Why?"
  • 00:52:00.140 --> 00:52:02.060
  • And he said, "Because every
  • 00:52:02.060 --> 00:52:03.140
  • non-Christian I know goes
  • 00:52:03.140 --> 00:52:04.200
  • there."
  • 00:52:04.200 --> 00:52:06.120
  • - Mark: So that makes it
  • 00:52:06.120 --> 00:52:07.150
  • a cult?
  • 00:52:07.150 --> 00:52:08.050
  • - Erwin: That's right.
  • 00:52:08.050 --> 00:52:09.030
  • It sounds like what Jesus did.
  • 00:52:09.030 --> 00:52:10.050
  • - Mark: But that is a
  • 00:52:10.050 --> 00:52:11.070
  • remarkable--
  • 00:52:11.070 --> 00:52:11.270
  • - Erwin: And I love the fact
  • 00:52:11.270 --> 00:52:13.170
  • that, you know, every week we
  • 00:52:13.170 --> 00:52:14.080
  • open up the Scriptures.
  • 00:52:14.080 --> 00:52:15.010
  • I mean, we teach Jesus.
  • 00:52:15.010 --> 00:52:16.290
  • We're really intense.
  • 00:52:16.290 --> 00:52:18.100
  • There's nothing soft, really, or
  • 00:52:18.100 --> 00:52:20.000
  • light about our message.
  • 00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:21.180
  • It's a very intense--
  • 00:52:21.180 --> 00:52:22.190
  • - Mark: Not watered-down
  • 00:52:22.190 --> 00:52:23.130
  • Christianity to make an atheist
  • 00:52:23.130 --> 00:52:24.180
  • feel comfortable?
  • 00:52:24.180 --> 00:52:25.090
  • - Erwin: No.
  • 00:52:25.090 --> 00:52:26.140
  • Why would an atheist want to
  • 00:52:26.140 --> 00:52:28.220
  • turn to God if he only made him
  • 00:52:28.220 --> 00:52:30.110
  • comfortable?
  • 00:52:30.110 --> 00:52:31.160
  • You see, you're not gonna have
  • 00:52:31.160 --> 00:52:33.230
  • Buddhists and Hindus and Muslims
  • 00:52:33.230 --> 00:52:35.160
  • and atheists come to Jesus if
  • 00:52:35.160 --> 00:52:37.010
  • Jesus just looks like he's milk
  • 00:52:37.010 --> 00:52:38.220
  • toast.
  • 00:52:38.220 --> 00:52:40.060
  • It has to be an extreme,
  • 00:52:40.060 --> 00:52:41.290
  • passionate, intense,
  • 00:52:41.290 --> 00:52:44.080
  • revolutionary message that Jesus
  • 00:52:44.080 --> 00:52:45.270
  • changes everything.
  • 00:52:45.270 --> 00:52:47.030
  • And so a lot of times, what I do
  • 00:52:47.030 --> 00:52:48.270
  • on Sundays is I just--I say,
  • 00:52:48.270 --> 00:52:50.220
  • "If--" This is the way I will do
  • 00:52:50.220 --> 00:52:51.240
  • the invitation.
  • 00:52:51.240 --> 00:52:52.200
  • I'll say, "If you're here and
  • 00:52:52.200 --> 00:52:53.130
  • you came in as an atheist and
  • 00:52:53.130 --> 00:52:54.230
  • you knew there was no God when
  • 00:52:54.230 --> 00:52:56.010
  • you came in, but God has spoken
  • 00:52:56.010 --> 00:52:57.160
  • to you and told you that Jesus
  • 00:52:57.160 --> 00:52:59.060
  • is his name, I want you to stand
  • 00:52:59.060 --> 00:53:00.220
  • up," and people just start
  • 00:53:00.220 --> 00:53:01.270
  • standing up everywhere.
  • 00:53:01.270 --> 00:53:03.100
  • - Mark: Praise God.
  • 00:53:03.100 --> 00:53:04.050
  • - Erwin: And so I don't do this
  • 00:53:04.050 --> 00:53:05.060
  • whole thing, "Hey, I finally
  • 00:53:05.060 --> 00:53:06.040
  • answered your questions.
  • 00:53:06.040 --> 00:53:07.040
  • I finally won the argument."
  • 00:53:07.040 --> 00:53:08.110
  • We just say, "Look, God spoke to
  • 00:53:08.110 --> 00:53:10.080
  • you and told you that Jesus is
  • 00:53:10.080 --> 00:53:11.140
  • his name."
  • 00:53:11.140 --> 00:53:12.170
  • It's amazing how many atheists
  • 00:53:12.170 --> 00:53:14.080
  • stand up.
  • 00:53:14.080 --> 00:53:15.160
  • And I've realized that the human
  • 00:53:15.160 --> 00:53:17.110
  • brain doesn't move as fast as
  • 00:53:17.110 --> 00:53:18.260
  • the soul.
  • 00:53:18.260 --> 00:53:20.080
  • And our brains are just trying
  • 00:53:20.080 --> 00:53:21.290
  • to catch up to what our souls
  • 00:53:21.290 --> 00:53:23.010
  • know.
  • 00:53:23.010 --> 00:53:24.000
  • That your soul knows that God is
  • 00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:25.190
  • there.
  • 00:53:25.190 --> 00:53:26.120
  • Your soul knows that God is
  • 00:53:26.120 --> 00:53:27.170
  • speaking to you.
  • 00:53:27.170 --> 00:53:28.240
  • And your soul even knows that
  • 00:53:28.240 --> 00:53:29.290
  • Jesus is his name.
  • 00:53:29.290 --> 00:53:31.110
  • It's your brain that's telling
  • 00:53:31.110 --> 00:53:32.080
  • you, "I don't know how I know
  • 00:53:32.080 --> 00:53:33.030
  • this and I'm very uncomfortable
  • 00:53:33.030 --> 00:53:34.120
  • with this."
  • 00:53:34.120 --> 00:53:35.170
  • And I love being in a space
  • 00:53:35.170 --> 00:53:38.120
  • where we can usher people into
  • 00:53:38.120 --> 00:53:39.210
  • the presence of God and they
  • 00:53:39.210 --> 00:53:41.020
  • just come to believe God because
  • 00:53:41.020 --> 00:53:43.010
  • he overwhelms them, not because
  • 00:53:43.010 --> 00:53:44.180
  • we answered the right question.
  • 00:53:44.180 --> 00:53:46.090
  • - Mark: They get that touch
  • 00:53:46.090 --> 00:53:48.160
  • from God.
  • 00:53:48.160 --> 00:53:49.190
  • That's a different thing.
  • 00:53:49.190 --> 00:53:50.280
  • There's no way to argue anybody
  • 00:53:50.280 --> 00:53:53.110
  • and to beat 'em with--I'm not
  • 00:53:53.110 --> 00:53:55.100
  • opposed to dogmatics or to
  • 00:53:55.100 --> 00:53:56.230
  • apologetics but there's not
  • 00:53:56.230 --> 00:53:58.240
  • really any way to beat somebody
  • 00:53:58.240 --> 00:54:00.250
  • into being a Christian,
  • 00:54:00.250 --> 00:54:02.020
  • is there?
  • 00:54:02.020 --> 00:54:02.190
  • - Erwin: You cannot argue
  • 00:54:02.190 --> 00:54:03.120
  • a person into love.
  • 00:54:03.120 --> 00:54:04.130
  • And our faith is about love.
  • 00:54:06.220 --> 00:54:09.220
  • It's a relationship of love.
  • 00:54:09.220 --> 00:54:11.130
  • Jesus connects to us
  • 00:54:11.130 --> 00:54:13.080
  • through love.
  • 00:54:13.080 --> 00:54:14.010
  • And we keep thinking that Jesus
  • 00:54:14.010 --> 00:54:15.150
  • is two plus two equals four and
  • 00:54:15.150 --> 00:54:17.020
  • he's not.
  • 00:54:17.020 --> 00:54:19.100
  • And--but when you fall in love,
  • 00:54:19.100 --> 00:54:21.190
  • all reason goes out the window
  • 00:54:21.190 --> 00:54:24.150
  • 'cause when--once you're in
  • 00:54:24.150 --> 00:54:25.160
  • love, it doesn't have to make
  • 00:54:25.160 --> 00:54:27.040
  • sense.
  • 00:54:27.040 --> 00:54:27.290
  • It's love that makes it make
  • 00:54:27.290 --> 00:54:29.020
  • sense.
  • 00:54:29.020 --> 00:54:29.220
  • - Mark: Praise God.
  • 00:54:29.220 --> 00:54:31.010
  • That's so true, isn't it?
  • 00:54:31.010 --> 00:54:32.050
  • - Erwin: Yeah.
  • 00:54:32.200 --> 00:54:35.200
  • - Mark: I'm not 100% sure that
  • 00:54:35.200 --> 00:54:38.050
  • you can take the--just the words
  • 00:54:38.050 --> 00:54:40.110
  • of Christ out of
  • 00:54:40.110 --> 00:54:41.270
  • the New Testament and build an
  • 00:54:41.270 --> 00:54:43.210
  • apologetic scheme out of that.
  • 00:54:43.210 --> 00:54:46.080
  • What those people encountered
  • 00:54:46.080 --> 00:54:49.010
  • was his presence, was him, was
  • 00:54:49.010 --> 00:54:51.130
  • Jesus.
  • 00:54:51.130 --> 00:54:52.210
  • That's what touched them.
  • 00:54:52.210 --> 00:54:53.240
  • That's what changed 'em.
  • 00:54:53.240 --> 00:54:54.180
  • And that's what's changing 'em
  • 00:54:54.180 --> 00:54:56.000
  • at Mosaic in downtown
  • 00:54:56.000 --> 00:54:57.080
  • Los Angeles.
  • 00:54:57.080 --> 00:54:57.290
  • - Erwin: It is.
  • 00:54:57.290 --> 00:54:58.180
  • You know, I was meeting with
  • 00:54:58.180 --> 00:54:59.130
  • this investor for a movie and
  • 00:54:59.130 --> 00:55:01.180
  • I didn't want to--I'm gonna be
  • 00:55:01.180 --> 00:55:03.120
  • honest, I--he knew--he didn't
  • 00:55:03.120 --> 00:55:04.200
  • know I was a pastor.
  • 00:55:04.200 --> 00:55:05.190
  • He didn't know I was a Christian
  • 00:55:05.190 --> 00:55:06.110
  • so I was gonna not mention that.
  • 00:55:06.110 --> 00:55:07.210
  • I just wanted to direct a film.
  • 00:55:07.210 --> 00:55:08.290
  • And I'm talking about these
  • 00:55:08.290 --> 00:55:11.270
  • films, everything like that, and
  • 00:55:11.270 --> 00:55:13.020
  • these projects, and he asked
  • 00:55:13.020 --> 00:55:15.040
  • me--a 40-acre house in
  • 00:55:15.040 --> 00:55:16.230
  • Beverly Hills.
  • 00:55:16.230 --> 00:55:17.270
  • And he said, "Hey, could we talk
  • 00:55:17.270 --> 00:55:19.070
  • some more?"
  • 00:55:19.070 --> 00:55:21.250
  • And I went back to his place
  • 00:55:21.250 --> 00:55:23.220
  • the next day and I said, "Why
  • 00:55:23.220 --> 00:55:24.290
  • do you wanna talk some more?"
  • 00:55:24.290 --> 00:55:25.280
  • He goes, "There's this
  • 00:55:25.280 --> 00:55:26.180
  • unexplainable peace that entered
  • 00:55:26.180 --> 00:55:29.010
  • the room when you walked in."
  • 00:55:29.010 --> 00:55:30.240
  • And in 24 hours, I had an
  • 00:55:31.020 --> 00:55:34.020
  • opportunity to help him know who
  • 00:55:34.020 --> 00:55:35.230
  • Jesus was and within weeks he
  • 00:55:35.230 --> 00:55:36.270
  • came to faith in him.
  • 00:55:36.270 --> 00:55:37.270
  • And I thought that's so funny.
  • 00:55:37.270 --> 00:55:38.290
  • I didn't wanna say anything but,
  • 00:55:38.290 --> 00:55:40.130
  • you know, if God is with you,
  • 00:55:40.130 --> 00:55:41.190
  • God's already speaking.
  • 00:55:41.190 --> 00:55:42.230
  • - Mark: Praise God.
  • 00:55:42.230 --> 00:55:43.210
  • Isn't that--
  • 00:55:43.210 --> 00:55:44.230
  • - Erwin: And so it's
  • 00:55:44.230 --> 00:55:45.110
  • embarrassing to be quiet if
  • 00:55:45.110 --> 00:55:46.020
  • God's talking.
  • 00:55:46.020 --> 00:55:47.210
  • - Mark: It's also embarrassing
  • 00:55:47.210 --> 00:55:49.200
  • to talk when God is saying
  • 00:55:49.200 --> 00:55:51.100
  • everybody needs to be quiet.
  • 00:55:51.100 --> 00:55:52.180
  • - Erwin: That's right.
  • 00:55:52.180 --> 00:55:54.080
  • - Mark: Erwin, thank you so
  • 00:55:54.080 --> 00:55:54.280
  • much for being here.
  • 00:55:54.280 --> 00:55:55.200
  • I tell you, it's great to see
  • 00:55:55.200 --> 00:55:56.230
  • you again.
  • 00:55:56.230 --> 00:55:57.190
  • - Erwin: It's great to be here
  • 00:55:57.190 --> 00:55:58.110
  • with you guys.
  • 00:55:58.110 --> 00:55:58.250
  • - Mark: God bless you.
  • 00:55:58.250 --> 00:55:59.130
  • God bless Mosaic and I pray that
  • 00:55:59.130 --> 00:56:01.170
  • a lot of people will receive
  • 00:56:01.170 --> 00:56:03.080
  • this book, "The Artisan Soul,"
  • 00:56:03.080 --> 00:56:04.190
  • by Erwin McManus, one of God's
  • 00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:08.000
  • richest thinkers.
  • 00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:09.020
  • God bless you.
  • 00:56:09.020 --> 00:56:10.090
  • Thank you for being here.
  • 00:56:10.090 --> 00:56:11.020
  • - Erwin: Thank you so much.
  • 00:56:11.020 --> 00:56:11.220
  • - Mark: Thank you, thank you.
  • 00:56:13.080 --> 00:56:16.080
  • - Mark: You know, life is not
  • 00:56:16.080 --> 00:56:17.040
  • always smooth and plastic.
  • 00:56:17.040 --> 00:56:18.170
  • Sometimes, there's challenges.
  • 00:56:18.170 --> 00:56:19.220
  • There's valleys and hills and
  • 00:56:19.220 --> 00:56:21.100
  • mountains to climb.
  • 00:56:21.100 --> 00:56:22.230
  • And sometimes,
  • 00:56:22.230 --> 00:56:23.130
  • some tough things.
  • 00:56:23.130 --> 00:56:24.110
  • But here's Jentezen Franklin to
  • 00:56:24.110 --> 00:56:25.190
  • tell you that "Through It All,"
  • 00:56:25.190 --> 00:56:26.200
  • God can make the victory ours.
  • 00:56:27.090 --> 00:56:30.090
  • I've had many tears
  • 00:56:34.250 --> 00:56:36.050
  • and sorrows.
  • 00:56:36.050 --> 00:56:38.210
  • I've had questions
  • 00:56:38.210 --> 00:56:39.180
  • about tomorrow.
  • 00:56:39.180 --> 00:56:42.170
  • There've been times
  • 00:56:42.170 --> 00:56:44.070
  • But in every situation,
  • 00:56:51.210 --> 00:56:54.210
  • God gave me that
  • 00:56:54.210 --> 00:56:56.020
  • blessed consolation.
  • 00:56:56.170 --> 00:56:59.170
  • He let me know
  • 00:56:59.170 --> 00:57:01.290
  • I've been to lots of places.
  • 00:57:09.040 --> 00:57:12.040
  • I've seen lots of faces.
  • 00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:16.000
  • But still there've been
  • 00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:18.060
  • times I just felt all alone
  • 00:57:21.040 --> 00:57:24.040
  • But in my lonely hours,
  • 00:57:25.110 --> 00:57:28.110
  • he made them
  • 00:57:28.110 --> 00:57:29.090
  • precious lonely hours.
  • 00:57:29.110 --> 00:57:32.110
  • He let me know that
  • 00:57:32.110 --> 00:57:34.190
  • I was his own.
  • 00:57:35.150 --> 00:57:38.150
  • Oh, and through it all,
  • 00:57:41.000 --> 00:57:44.000
  • through it all,
  • 00:57:44.210 --> 00:57:47.210
  • I've learned to trust in
  • 00:57:47.210 --> 00:57:49.250
  • Jesus and I've learned
  • 00:57:49.250 --> 00:57:52.160
  • to trust in God.
  • 00:57:53.060 --> 00:57:56.060
  • Oh, through it all,
  • 00:57:56.140 --> 00:57:59.140
  • Yes, through it all,
  • 00:58:01.010 --> 00:58:04.010
  • I've learned to
  • 00:58:04.010 --> 00:58:06.100
  • depend upon his Word.
  • 00:58:08.270 --> 00:58:11.270
  • So I thank God for
  • 00:58:11.270 --> 00:58:14.200
  • the mountains, and I thank
  • 00:58:14.200 --> 00:58:17.120
  • him for the low valleys.
  • 00:58:17.120 --> 00:58:20.070
  • I even thank him
  • 00:58:20.070 --> 00:58:22.100
  • for the storms
  • 00:58:22.100 --> 00:58:24.010
  • he's brought me through.
  • 00:58:25.080 --> 00:58:28.080
  • For if I'd never had
  • 00:58:28.260 --> 00:58:31.260
  • all those problems,
  • 00:58:31.260 --> 00:58:33.130
  • I'd never know that
  • 00:58:33.130 --> 00:58:34.280
  • my God can solve them.
  • 00:58:34.280 --> 00:58:37.040
  • I'd never know what faith
  • 00:58:37.040 --> 00:58:39.030
  • in his Word can do.
  • 00:58:39.030 --> 00:58:41.210
  • If you know it,
  • 00:58:41.210 --> 00:58:42.160
  • sing it right where you are.
  • 00:58:42.160 --> 00:58:44.280
  • So through it all,
  • 00:58:44.280 --> 00:58:47.240
  • oh, through it all,
  • 00:58:49.040 --> 00:58:52.040
  • I've learned
  • 00:58:52.040 --> 00:58:54.010
  • I can really trust in Jesus
  • 00:58:54.010 --> 00:58:56.160
  • I've learned
  • 00:58:56.160 --> 00:58:57.250
  • to trust in God.
  • 00:58:57.250 --> 00:58:59.270
  • Sometimes,
  • 00:58:59.270 --> 00:59:01.060
  • through the fire,
  • 00:59:01.060 --> 00:59:03.140
  • sometimes,
  • 00:59:03.140 --> 00:59:04.200
  • through the storm.
  • 00:59:04.260 --> 00:59:07.260
  • Oh, I've learned just
  • 00:59:07.260 --> 00:59:10.160
  • [music]
  • 00:59:17.250 --> 00:59:25.060
  • [music]
  • 00:59:25.060 --> 00:59:32.230
  • [music]
  • 00:59:32.250 --> 00:59:40.020
  • [music]
  • 00:59:40.020 --> 00:59:47.190
  • Through it all,
  • 00:59:49.210 --> 00:59:52.210
  • through it all,
  • 00:59:53.120 --> 00:59:56.120
  • I've learned
  • 00:59:56.120 --> 00:59:58.160
  • to trust in Jesus.
  • 00:59:58.160 --> 01:00:00.120
  • I've learned
  • 01:00:00.120 --> 01:00:01.170
  • to trust in God.
  • 01:00:01.170 --> 01:00:04.060
  • And through it all,
  • 01:00:05.080 --> 01:00:08.080
  • I've learned
  • 01:00:18.200 --> 01:00:21.200
  • I've learned
  • 01:00:21.200 --> 01:00:30.280
  • [music]
  • 01:00:31.000 --> 01:00:38.110
  • [music]
  • 01:00:38.110 --> 01:00:46.000
  • [audience applauding]
  • 01:01:05.000 --> 01:01:08.000
  • - Mark: That's Jentezen
  • 01:01:08.000 --> 01:01:09.020
  • Franklin with "Through It All"
  • 01:01:09.020 --> 01:01:11.050
  • from his beautiful new CD,
  • 01:01:11.050 --> 01:01:13.030
  • "I Hear the Sound:
  • 01:01:13.030 --> 01:01:14.150
  • Songs That Matter."
  • 01:01:14.150 --> 01:01:15.220
  • I know you're gonna wanna get
  • 01:01:15.220 --> 01:01:16.130
  • this CD and enjoy every song
  • 01:01:16.130 --> 01:01:18.180
  • that's on there.
  • 01:01:18.180 --> 01:01:19.130
  • Now listen to me for just
  • 01:01:19.130 --> 01:01:20.160
  • a moment.
  • 01:01:20.160 --> 01:01:21.150
  • I don't know what you're facing.
  • 01:01:21.150 --> 01:01:23.190
  • I don't know what you're dealing
  • 01:01:23.190 --> 01:01:24.170
  • with.
  • 01:01:24.170 --> 01:01:25.140
  • I don't know what the all is
  • 01:01:25.140 --> 01:01:27.000
  • that God is bringing you
  • 01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:28.170
  • through.
  • 01:01:28.170 --> 01:01:29.240
  • I don't know what you're facing
  • 01:01:29.240 --> 01:01:30.190
  • right this moment, right now
  • 01:01:30.190 --> 01:01:32.050
  • as you watch this.
  • 01:01:32.050 --> 01:01:33.160
  • Maybe you're alone in a hotel
  • 01:01:33.160 --> 01:01:34.200
  • room right now and you're
  • 01:01:34.200 --> 01:01:36.030
  • struggling with the future of
  • 01:01:36.030 --> 01:01:38.060
  • your life.
  • 01:01:38.060 --> 01:01:40.050
  • I want to invite you right now.
  • 01:01:40.050 --> 01:01:42.090
  • That same Jesus that guided
  • 01:01:42.140 --> 01:01:45.140
  • Jentezen through it, that guided
  • 01:01:45.140 --> 01:01:46.110
  • me through it, that guides
  • 01:01:46.110 --> 01:01:47.150
  • thousands, millions, through the
  • 01:01:47.150 --> 01:01:48.190
  • history of the world, through it
  • 01:01:48.190 --> 01:01:50.110
  • all, ask him right now.
  • 01:01:50.110 --> 01:01:51.160
  • Say, "Lord, come into my life.
  • 01:01:51.160 --> 01:01:53.110
  • I receive you.
  • 01:01:53.110 --> 01:01:54.140
  • Touch me.
  • 01:01:54.140 --> 01:01:55.040
  • Speak to me."
  • 01:01:55.040 --> 01:01:56.150
  • Maybe you're the atheist that
  • 01:01:56.150 --> 01:01:58.190
  • Erwin McManus was talking about.
  • 01:01:58.190 --> 01:02:01.140
  • That still small voice, that
  • 01:02:01.140 --> 01:02:03.010
  • nagging voice inside of you that
  • 01:02:03.010 --> 01:02:05.060
  • says, "I'm here and I'm real."
  • 01:02:05.060 --> 01:02:07.150
  • That's God.
  • 01:02:07.150 --> 01:02:08.210
  • And then why don't you pick your
  • 01:02:08.210 --> 01:02:10.060
  • telephone up, call the number
  • 01:02:10.060 --> 01:02:11.050
  • that's on the screen, and say to
  • 01:02:11.050 --> 01:02:12.160
  • the person there, "Pray with me.
  • 01:02:12.160 --> 01:02:14.050
  • I wanna receive the Lord.
  • 01:02:14.050 --> 01:02:15.190
  • I need prayer for," any need
  • 01:02:15.190 --> 01:02:16.250
  • that's in your life.
  • 01:02:16.250 --> 01:02:18.040
  • I don't know what you're facing
  • 01:02:18.040 --> 01:02:19.170
  • in marriage, finances, your
  • 01:02:19.170 --> 01:02:20.230
  • future, whatever it is.
  • 01:02:20.230 --> 01:02:22.110
  • Pick the phone up and say to
  • 01:02:22.110 --> 01:02:24.000
  • somebody on the other end of
  • 01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:25.020
  • the line, "Pray with me.
  • 01:02:25.020 --> 01:02:26.260
  • I need help.
  • 01:02:26.260 --> 01:02:27.220
  • I need a touch from God.
  • 01:02:27.220 --> 01:02:29.110
  • I need him to take me through it
  • 01:02:29.110 --> 01:02:31.010
  • all."
  • 01:02:31.010 --> 01:02:32.000
  • And I'm gonna believe God
  • 01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:33.070
  • with you for that miracle.
  • 01:02:33.070 --> 01:02:34.210
  • Now, I want you to meet
  • 01:02:34.210 --> 01:02:35.260
  • our next guest.
  • 01:02:35.260 --> 01:02:36.280
  • I'm so delighted.
  • 01:02:36.280 --> 01:02:37.220
  • Another friend of mine,
  • 01:02:37.220 --> 01:02:38.210
  • the President and co-Founder of
  • 01:02:38.210 --> 01:02:40.100
  • the King of Kings Community and
  • 01:02:40.100 --> 01:02:42.080
  • Community of Ministries
  • 01:02:42.090 --> 01:02:45.090
  • in Jerusalem, Israel,
  • 01:02:45.090 --> 01:02:46.080
  • Wayne Hilsden.
  • 01:02:46.080 --> 01:02:47.030
  • Wayne, welcome.
  • 01:02:47.030 --> 01:02:48.020
  • Welcome to "Praise The Lord."
  • 01:02:48.020 --> 01:02:49.270
  • - Wayne Hilsden: Awesome to be
  • 01:02:49.270 --> 01:02:51.030
  • here.
  • 01:02:51.030 --> 01:02:51.200
  • - Mark: I'm honored that you're
  • 01:02:51.200 --> 01:02:52.120
  • here with us, all the way from
  • 01:02:52.120 --> 01:02:53.110
  • Jerusalem.
  • 01:02:53.110 --> 01:02:54.120
  • I just wanna start with a
  • 01:02:54.120 --> 01:02:55.230
  • straight-out question, how does
  • 01:02:55.230 --> 01:02:58.090
  • a Canadian wind up spending 32
  • 01:02:58.090 --> 01:03:00.100
  • years doing ministry in
  • 01:03:00.100 --> 01:03:02.250
  • Jerusalem?
  • 01:03:02.250 --> 01:03:03.240
  • How did that happen?
  • 01:03:03.240 --> 01:03:04.240
  • - Wayne: That's a good
  • 01:03:04.240 --> 01:03:05.120
  • question.
  • 01:03:05.120 --> 01:03:06.010
  • Well, you know, the weather in
  • 01:03:06.010 --> 01:03:06.220
  • Canada's really rough.
  • 01:03:06.220 --> 01:03:07.240
  • Israel looked awfully warm,
  • 01:03:07.240 --> 01:03:09.150
  • so--no, that's not the reason.
  • 01:03:09.150 --> 01:03:11.070
  • - Mark: That's not the answer.
  • 01:03:11.070 --> 01:03:12.130
  • - Wayne: No, it's not the
  • 01:03:12.130 --> 01:03:13.020
  • answer.
  • 01:03:13.020 --> 01:03:13.230
  • You know, out of the blue,
  • 01:03:13.230 --> 01:03:14.170
  • really.
  • 01:03:14.170 --> 01:03:15.030
  • I never wanted to go to Israel.
  • 01:03:15.030 --> 01:03:16.150
  • I didn't have any heart to
  • 01:03:16.150 --> 01:03:19.010
  • travel there and see the country
  • 01:03:19.010 --> 01:03:20.230
  • but I was about 30 years of age
  • 01:03:20.230 --> 01:03:23.090
  • We stopped at a church north of
  • 01:03:25.270 --> 01:03:27.010
  • Toronto.
  • 01:03:27.010 --> 01:03:28.030
  • The pastor met the folks at the
  • 01:03:28.030 --> 01:03:29.230
  • door, shook their hand, invited
  • 01:03:29.230 --> 01:03:31.100
  • us home for dinner, and over
  • 01:03:31.100 --> 01:03:32.190
  • dinner said, "I feel called to
  • 01:03:32.190 --> 01:03:33.180
  • Israel.
  • 01:03:33.180 --> 01:03:35.050
  • I'm about to resign my church
  • 01:03:35.050 --> 01:03:35.280
  • and move there.
  • 01:03:35.280 --> 01:03:36.290
  • And I feel the Lord's calling me
  • 01:03:36.290 --> 01:03:38.130
  • to plant a church in Jerusalem.
  • 01:03:38.130 --> 01:03:39.260
  • Would you and Ann come and help
  • 01:03:39.260 --> 01:03:41.220
  • us plant that church?"
  • 01:03:41.220 --> 01:03:42.240
  • He hadn't even prayed about it,
  • 01:03:45.080 --> 01:03:46.150
  • I found out later.
  • 01:03:46.150 --> 01:03:47.180
  • But we were stupid enough to go.
  • 01:03:47.180 --> 01:03:50.060
  • And we pastored that little
  • 01:03:50.060 --> 01:03:51.260
  • congregation that grew for 5
  • 01:03:51.260 --> 01:03:53.220
  • years.
  • 01:03:53.220 --> 01:03:55.160
  • He went back to Canada and we
  • 01:03:55.160 --> 01:03:56.220
  • remained ever since.
  • 01:03:56.220 --> 01:03:59.080
  • - Mark: So he took you to
  • 01:03:59.080 --> 01:03:59.290
  • Jerusalem and then he went home
  • 01:03:59.290 --> 01:04:01.120
  • and left you there?
  • 01:04:01.120 --> 01:04:02.090
  • - Wayne: Exactly.
  • 01:04:02.090 --> 01:04:02.280
  • Abandoned.
  • 01:04:02.280 --> 01:04:03.250
  • - Mark: Abandoned you there.
  • 01:04:03.250 --> 01:04:04.280
  • And you've been there 32 years
  • 01:04:04.280 --> 01:04:05.260
  • and you have built a substantial
  • 01:04:05.260 --> 01:04:07.210
  • ministry there with all kinds
  • 01:04:07.210 --> 01:04:09.150
  • of--there are all kinds of
  • 01:04:09.150 --> 01:04:11.180
  • groups that meet there.
  • 01:04:11.180 --> 01:04:12.210
  • It's a lot of facilities
  • 01:04:12.210 --> 01:04:14.100
  • building.
  • 01:04:14.100 --> 01:04:15.170
  • I know Free Chapel, Jentezen and
  • 01:04:15.170 --> 01:04:16.270
  • Free Chapel, we've participated
  • 01:04:16.270 --> 01:04:18.080
  • in those facilities as well.
  • 01:04:18.080 --> 01:04:20.180
  • - Wayne: We call it a family of
  • 01:04:20.180 --> 01:04:21.290
  • ministries.
  • 01:04:21.290 --> 01:04:22.230
  • I've always had a heart as soon
  • 01:04:22.230 --> 01:04:23.210
  • as I came to know the Lord as
  • 01:04:23.210 --> 01:04:25.150
  • Savior to really think broader,
  • 01:04:25.150 --> 01:04:28.120
  • the kingdom.
  • 01:04:28.120 --> 01:04:29.200
  • And really, I believe in unity.
  • 01:04:29.200 --> 01:04:31.180
  • I think it's a powerful
  • 01:04:31.180 --> 01:04:32.180
  • demonstration of the gospel,
  • 01:04:32.180 --> 01:04:35.100
  • the power of the gospel.
  • 01:04:35.100 --> 01:04:37.020
  • Jesus said, you know, he prayed.
  • 01:04:37.020 --> 01:04:38.040
  • He said that we would be one,
  • 01:04:38.040 --> 01:04:39.120
  • that the world would know that
  • 01:04:39.120 --> 01:04:40.190
  • the Father sent him.
  • 01:04:40.190 --> 01:04:41.240
  • And so what we do is we open up
  • 01:04:41.240 --> 01:04:43.080
  • all of our facilities.
  • 01:04:43.080 --> 01:04:44.220
  • We bought 30 properties in one
  • 01:04:44.220 --> 01:04:46.020
  • building on the main street in
  • 01:04:46.020 --> 01:04:47.220
  • downtown Jerusalem.
  • 01:04:47.220 --> 01:04:49.050
  • The light rail transit stops at
  • 01:04:49.050 --> 01:04:50.040
  • our door.
  • 01:04:50.040 --> 01:04:51.000
  • We have 12 congregations that
  • 01:04:51.000 --> 01:04:52.170
  • gather, worshiping God in
  • 01:04:52.170 --> 01:04:54.170
  • various languages from various
  • 01:04:54.170 --> 01:04:55.230
  • backgrounds.
  • 01:04:55.230 --> 01:04:57.040
  • We have a prayer tower on the
  • 01:04:57.040 --> 01:04:58.180
  • top of this building.
  • 01:04:58.180 --> 01:04:59.260
  • It's on the 17th story and we
  • 01:04:59.260 --> 01:05:01.190
  • see almost the entire city of
  • 01:05:01.190 --> 01:05:03.010
  • Jerusalem.
  • 01:05:03.010 --> 01:05:03.280
  • We see Jordan on a clear day and
  • 01:05:03.280 --> 01:05:05.130
  • we've got a school of ministry
  • 01:05:05.130 --> 01:05:07.100
  • there.
  • 01:05:07.100 --> 01:05:09.080
  • We have a school of music and
  • 01:05:09.080 --> 01:05:10.260
  • the arts, a school of media,
  • 01:05:10.260 --> 01:05:12.150
  • and developing a ministry of
  • 01:05:12.150 --> 01:05:15.130
  • counseling and training
  • 01:05:15.130 --> 01:05:17.220
  • counselors.
  • 01:05:17.220 --> 01:05:18.170
  • We've bought out two porn shops
  • 01:05:18.170 --> 01:05:20.110
  • that were right outside our
  • 01:05:20.110 --> 01:05:22.040
  • sanctuary, a former movie
  • 01:05:22.040 --> 01:05:23.230
  • theater, and outside, two porn
  • 01:05:23.230 --> 01:05:25.050
  • shops.
  • 01:05:25.050 --> 01:05:26.030
  • Turned one of them into a family
  • 01:05:26.030 --> 01:05:27.050
  • counseling center and God has
  • 01:05:27.050 --> 01:05:29.010
  • done--turned that place around.
  • 01:05:29.010 --> 01:05:30.250
  • - Mark: Isn't that great?
  • 01:05:30.250 --> 01:05:32.140
  • - Wayne: He's a redeemer.
  • 01:05:32.140 --> 01:05:34.190
  • - Mark: Maybe those
  • 01:05:34.190 --> 01:05:35.250
  • who haven't been
  • 01:05:35.250 --> 01:05:36.280
  • to Jerusalem and to Israel and
  • 01:05:36.280 --> 01:05:38.250
  • to Jerusalem don't realize, by
  • 01:05:38.250 --> 01:05:41.150
  • watching the news, at least you
  • 01:05:41.150 --> 01:05:42.280
  • get some sense of it, but when
  • 01:05:42.280 --> 01:05:44.160
  • you're standing in Jerusalem,
  • 01:05:44.160 --> 01:05:46.090
  • you're really, truly, in
  • 01:05:46.090 --> 01:05:47.270
  • the center of the world.
  • 01:05:47.270 --> 01:05:49.180
  • This little tiny real estate,
  • 01:05:49.180 --> 01:05:51.050
  • the size of New Jersey, and
  • 01:05:51.050 --> 01:05:52.230
  • the--it's on the front page of
  • 01:05:52.230 --> 01:05:54.100
  • every newspaper in the world
  • 01:05:54.100 --> 01:05:56.150
  • every day.
  • 01:05:56.150 --> 01:05:58.160
  • Is that a--is that just a matter
  • 01:05:58.160 --> 01:06:00.250
  • of geopolitics?
  • 01:06:00.250 --> 01:06:02.150
  • What's that about?
  • 01:06:02.150 --> 01:06:03.160
  • - Wayne: Well, God chose that
  • 01:06:03.160 --> 01:06:04.270
  • city, placed his name there
  • 01:06:04.270 --> 01:06:06.080
  • forever.
  • 01:06:06.080 --> 01:06:07.100
  • That's repeated a number of
  • 01:06:07.100 --> 01:06:08.040
  • times in the Old Testament
  • 01:06:08.040 --> 01:06:09.030
  • Scriptures.
  • 01:06:09.030 --> 01:06:10.020
  • Even after the Jewish people
  • 01:06:10.020 --> 01:06:12.140
  • crossed the Red Sea and they
  • 01:06:12.140 --> 01:06:14.180
  • were about to go forth, God
  • 01:06:15.110 --> 01:06:18.110
  • ordained a city and a mountain
  • 01:06:18.110 --> 01:06:20.080
  • where they will worship the Lord
  • 01:06:20.080 --> 01:06:21.150
  • forever.
  • 01:06:21.150 --> 01:06:22.140
  • And that's Jerusalem.
  • 01:06:22.140 --> 01:06:23.250
  • And you know, Jesus said, "I'm
  • 01:06:23.250 --> 01:06:26.020
  • gonna come back and I'm going to
  • 01:06:26.020 --> 01:06:27.250
  • sit on my throne in Jerusalem
  • 01:06:27.250 --> 01:06:29.240
  • and the nations will stream up
  • 01:06:29.240 --> 01:06:31.260
  • to Jerusalem every year at the
  • 01:06:31.260 --> 01:06:33.090
  • Feast of Tabernacles and worship
  • 01:06:33.090 --> 01:06:34.270
  • him there.
  • 01:06:34.270 --> 01:06:35.230
  • The devil knows that.
  • 01:06:35.230 --> 01:06:37.080
  • The devil wants that throne.
  • 01:06:37.080 --> 01:06:39.090
  • And so he's fighting like crazy
  • 01:06:39.090 --> 01:06:40.290
  • to stop the purposes of God.
  • 01:06:41.030 --> 01:06:44.030
  • And so there is this focus on
  • 01:06:44.030 --> 01:06:45.260
  • the epicenter of the world,
  • 01:06:45.260 --> 01:06:47.120
  • Jerusalem, the nation of Israel.
  • 01:06:47.120 --> 01:06:48.240
  • And the devil wants to rule
  • 01:06:48.240 --> 01:06:51.190
  • that place.
  • 01:06:51.190 --> 01:06:52.150
  • And he's working hard but we
  • 01:06:52.150 --> 01:06:54.050
  • know who's gonna win; we've read
  • 01:06:54.050 --> 01:06:55.060
  • the last chapter of the book and
  • 01:06:55.060 --> 01:06:57.230
  • we know that ultimately he will
  • 01:06:57.230 --> 01:06:59.210
  • rule and reign forever and ever.
  • 01:06:59.210 --> 01:07:01.240
  • - Mark: There must be some
  • 01:07:01.240 --> 01:07:02.230
  • unique challenges in doing
  • 01:07:02.260 --> 01:07:05.260
  • Christian ministry in Jerusalem
  • 01:07:05.260 --> 01:07:07.240
  • that would probably be different
  • 01:07:07.240 --> 01:07:09.120
  • from any--I mean, there are
  • 01:07:09.120 --> 01:07:11.070
  • challenges anywhere and whether
  • 01:07:11.070 --> 01:07:12.270
  • in Nigeria or UK but there must
  • 01:07:13.000 --> 01:07:16.000
  • be some things that are unique
  • 01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:17.250
  • to doing ministry in Israel, and
  • 01:07:17.250 --> 01:07:19.210
  • particularly in Jerusalem.
  • 01:07:19.210 --> 01:07:21.010
  • - Wayne: One of our biggest
  • 01:07:21.010 --> 01:07:22.180
  • challenges is 1700 years of
  • 01:07:22.180 --> 01:07:24.130
  • history, a tragic history
  • 01:07:24.130 --> 01:07:26.230
  • between Christians and Jews, and
  • 01:07:26.230 --> 01:07:28.210
  • there was a theology that
  • 01:07:28.210 --> 01:07:30.040
  • developed early on in about the
  • 01:07:30.040 --> 01:07:31.270
  • 4th century that we now call
  • 01:07:31.270 --> 01:07:34.020
  • replacement theology, a teaching
  • 01:07:34.020 --> 01:07:36.200
  • that the Jewish people are
  • 01:07:36.200 --> 01:07:38.060
  • passé, they rejected Jesus,
  • 01:07:38.060 --> 01:07:40.090
  • their own Messiah.
  • 01:07:40.090 --> 01:07:42.030
  • God has now rejected them.
  • 01:07:42.030 --> 01:07:44.060
  • God has chosen a new people, the
  • 01:07:44.060 --> 01:07:45.200
  • church, the Gentile part of the
  • 01:07:45.200 --> 01:07:47.260
  • church, and out of that, a
  • 01:07:47.260 --> 01:07:50.150
  • number of Christians have
  • 01:07:50.150 --> 01:07:51.290
  • twisted the Word of God to think
  • 01:07:51.290 --> 01:07:54.170
  • if God's rejected Israel, then
  • 01:07:54.170 --> 01:07:56.230
  • we should reject Israel.
  • 01:07:56.230 --> 01:07:58.090
  • If God has turned his back on
  • 01:07:58.090 --> 01:07:59.160
  • the Jewish people, then we
  • 01:07:59.160 --> 01:08:01.030
  • should turn our back on the
  • 01:08:01.030 --> 01:08:02.010
  • Jewish people.
  • 01:08:02.010 --> 01:08:03.010
  • And we see the Jewish people's
  • 01:08:03.010 --> 01:08:04.110
  • history, much of it tragic
  • 01:08:04.110 --> 01:08:06.050
  • history, as a reflection of
  • 01:08:06.050 --> 01:08:08.290
  • God's turning his back on them,
  • 01:08:08.290 --> 01:08:11.090
  • cursing them, and yet we know
  • 01:08:11.160 --> 01:08:14.160
  • that he loves them with an
  • 01:08:14.160 --> 01:08:15.170
  • everlasting love.
  • 01:08:15.170 --> 01:08:16.170
  • So if we say to Jewish people
  • 01:08:16.170 --> 01:08:18.130
  • today, "Jesus loves you," well,
  • 01:08:18.130 --> 01:08:21.020
  • they'll say, "He's got a funny
  • 01:08:21.020 --> 01:08:22.150
  • way of telling us that he loves
  • 01:08:22.150 --> 01:08:23.190
  • us."
  • 01:08:23.190 --> 01:08:25.030
  • And so we've seen, during the
  • 01:08:25.030 --> 01:08:27.150
  • Crusades, where many Jews were
  • 01:08:27.150 --> 01:08:29.060
  • killed, synagogues burned to the
  • 01:08:29.060 --> 01:08:31.160
  • ground, by people carrying the
  • 01:08:31.160 --> 01:08:33.240
  • cross.
  • 01:08:33.240 --> 01:08:34.270
  • We saw the pogroms in Eastern
  • 01:08:34.270 --> 01:08:36.250
  • church circles in Russia, places
  • 01:08:37.120 --> 01:08:40.120
  • like that.
  • 01:08:40.120 --> 01:08:42.150
  • We see the Holocaust, 6 million
  • 01:08:42.150 --> 01:08:44.270
  • Jews killed in a so-called
  • 01:08:44.270 --> 01:08:46.140
  • Christian nation.
  • 01:08:46.140 --> 01:08:47.280
  • And Hitler himself, quoted
  • 01:08:47.280 --> 01:08:50.080
  • Martin Luther to justify his
  • 01:08:50.080 --> 01:08:52.170
  • anti-Jew policies.
  • 01:08:52.260 --> 01:08:55.260
  • And so to preach the gospel with
  • 01:08:55.260 --> 01:08:57.290
  • history behind us, tragic
  • 01:08:57.290 --> 01:09:00.110
  • history, makes it much more
  • 01:09:00.110 --> 01:09:01.120
  • difficult.
  • 01:09:01.120 --> 01:09:02.280
  • - Mark: Because you've got all
  • 01:09:02.280 --> 01:09:03.200
  • of that hurt and all of that
  • 01:09:03.200 --> 01:09:06.020
  • woundedness in the name of
  • 01:09:06.020 --> 01:09:07.160
  • Christianity, so the challenge
  • 01:09:07.160 --> 01:09:09.260
  • has got to be to present the
  • 01:09:09.260 --> 01:09:11.110
  • real face of Christ, to overcome
  • 01:09:11.120 --> 01:09:14.120
  • all of that replacement theology
  • 01:09:14.200 --> 01:09:17.200
  • and all of that, and be the real
  • 01:09:17.200 --> 01:09:19.180
  • presence of Christ in that
  • 01:09:19.180 --> 01:09:21.190
  • community.
  • 01:09:21.190 --> 01:09:22.160
  • And you've been doing that for
  • 01:09:22.160 --> 01:09:23.160
  • more than 3 decades.
  • 01:09:23.160 --> 01:09:25.030
  • Congratulations.
  • 01:09:25.030 --> 01:09:26.160
  • It's a wonderful, wonderful
  • 01:09:26.160 --> 01:09:27.180
  • work.
  • 01:09:27.180 --> 01:09:28.140
  • Thank God.
  • 01:09:28.140 --> 01:09:30.000
  • - Wayne: Thank you very much.
  • 01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:31.220
  • - Mark: I wanna ask you
  • 01:09:31.220 --> 01:09:32.260
  • about--this is kind of a new
  • 01:09:32.260 --> 01:09:34.050
  • phase in your life in ministry
  • 01:09:34.050 --> 01:09:36.050
  • as you've begun to turn more of
  • 01:09:36.050 --> 01:09:38.010
  • the pastoring responsibilities
  • 01:09:38.010 --> 01:09:39.260
  • to others, you've begun a new
  • 01:09:39.260 --> 01:09:40.290
  • organization, F-I-R-M, FIRM,
  • 01:09:40.290 --> 01:09:43.000
  • along with our mutual friend,
  • 01:09:43.000 --> 01:09:44.270
  • Jack Hayford.
  • 01:09:44.270 --> 01:09:45.250
  • Tell me something about what
  • 01:09:45.250 --> 01:09:46.200
  • FIRM is all about.
  • 01:09:46.200 --> 01:09:47.250
  • - Wayne: FIRM stands for
  • 01:09:47.250 --> 01:09:48.170
  • Fellowship of Israel Related
  • 01:09:48.170 --> 01:09:49.190
  • Ministries.
  • 01:09:49.190 --> 01:09:50.170
  • So, as I mentioned earlier, my
  • 01:09:50.170 --> 01:09:52.070
  • heart for unity and cooperation
  • 01:09:52.070 --> 01:09:54.260
  • between ministries.
  • 01:09:54.260 --> 01:09:56.120
  • We're inviting all ministries
  • 01:09:56.120 --> 01:09:59.120
  • that relate in some way to the
  • 01:09:59.120 --> 01:10:00.250
  • Jewish people worldwide, the
  • 01:10:00.250 --> 01:10:03.060
  • Jews or Arabs in the land of
  • 01:10:05.080 --> 01:10:06.120
  • Israel, and tell their story, to
  • 01:10:06.120 --> 01:10:09.080
  • pray for them, to equip them and
  • 01:10:10.110 --> 01:10:13.110
  • help them be more effective
  • 01:10:13.110 --> 01:10:14.270
  • in the work that they do.
  • 01:10:14.270 --> 01:10:16.060
  • We're introducing them to
  • 01:10:16.060 --> 01:10:17.050
  • pastors and churches around
  • 01:10:17.050 --> 01:10:18.170
  • the world and marketplace
  • 01:10:18.170 --> 01:10:19.210
  • leaders
  • 01:10:19.210 --> 01:10:20.240
  • so that people know what God
  • 01:10:20.240 --> 01:10:22.060
  • is doing in the land of Israel.
  • 01:10:22.060 --> 01:10:23.130
  • We have tours that come to
  • 01:10:23.130 --> 01:10:24.060
  • Israel and they see the
  • 01:10:24.060 --> 01:10:24.270
  • the history and hear the
  • 01:10:27.040 --> 01:10:28.250
  • history, but often don't realize
  • 01:10:28.250 --> 01:10:30.040
  • that God is moving by his Spirit
  • 01:10:30.040 --> 01:10:31.140
  • today in Israel and those
  • 01:10:31.140 --> 01:10:33.150
  • stories need to be told.
  • 01:10:33.150 --> 01:10:35.110
  • And those ministries that are
  • 01:10:35.110 --> 01:10:36.110
  • working effectively need help.
  • 01:10:36.110 --> 01:10:39.030
  • And they need prayer power.
  • 01:10:39.030 --> 01:10:40.290
  • They need financial help.
  • 01:10:40.290 --> 01:10:42.060
  • And we wanna do that
  • 01:10:42.060 --> 01:10:43.110
  • effectively.
  • 01:10:43.110 --> 01:10:45.090
  • - Mark: I think a lot of people
  • 01:10:45.090 --> 01:10:46.090
  • are maybe ignorant of--I don't
  • 01:10:46.090 --> 01:10:48.060
  • mean that in a hard way,
  • 01:10:48.060 --> 01:10:50.110
  • ignorant, but unlearned about
  • 01:10:50.110 --> 01:10:52.020
  • the kinds of ministries
  • 01:10:52.020 --> 01:10:53.120
  • that are in Israel.
  • 01:10:53.120 --> 01:10:55.050
  • What kind of numbers
  • 01:10:55.050 --> 01:10:56.040
  • are we talking about?
  • 01:10:56.040 --> 01:10:57.070
  • I mean, is there--are they three
  • 01:10:57.070 --> 01:10:58.150
  • ministries, five ministries,
  • 01:10:58.150 --> 01:10:59.290
  • what are we talking about
  • 01:10:59.290 --> 01:11:00.260
  • in F-I-R-M?
  • 01:11:00.260 --> 01:11:02.120
  • - Wayne: Well, I would say
  • 01:11:02.120 --> 01:11:03.210
  • there's probably well over 100
  • 01:11:03.210 --> 01:11:04.150
  • in Israel that we would say are
  • 01:11:04.150 --> 01:11:06.180
  • doing good work.
  • 01:11:06.180 --> 01:11:07.190
  • And then there are ministries
  • 01:11:07.190 --> 01:11:09.000
  • around the world that bless
  • 01:11:09.000 --> 01:11:10.100
  • the Jewish people in one way
  • 01:11:10.100 --> 01:11:11.220
  • or another.
  • 01:11:11.220 --> 01:11:12.190
  • And we are inviting people to
  • 01:11:12.190 --> 01:11:15.120
  • join this fellowship.
  • 01:11:15.120 --> 01:11:16.250
  • We have well over 20 now that
  • 01:11:16.250 --> 01:11:18.110
  • we've vetted.
  • 01:11:18.110 --> 01:11:20.060
  • We've invited to come but we
  • 01:11:20.060 --> 01:11:21.040
  • also want them to be the kinds
  • 01:11:21.040 --> 01:11:22.260
  • of ministry that we can--we know
  • 01:11:22.260 --> 01:11:24.220
  • there's credibility.
  • 01:11:24.220 --> 01:11:26.000
  • And we know there's
  • 01:11:26.000 --> 01:11:26.260
  • accountability.
  • 01:11:26.260 --> 01:11:27.190
  • And so we're telling their
  • 01:11:27.190 --> 01:11:29.250
  • story.
  • 01:11:29.250 --> 01:11:30.180
  • - Mark: I know that at the end
  • 01:11:30.180 --> 01:11:32.140
  • of May you're putting on this
  • 01:11:32.140 --> 01:11:33.160
  • conference called "The Jerusalem
  • 01:11:33.160 --> 01:11:35.110
  • Encounter."
  • 01:11:35.110 --> 01:11:36.120
  • In a moment, I'm gonna ask you
  • 01:11:36.120 --> 01:11:38.000
  • to tell us more about it but
  • 01:11:38.000 --> 01:11:39.160
  • I've got a video here I want you
  • 01:11:39.160 --> 01:11:41.270
  • to--let's see the video and then
  • 01:11:41.270 --> 01:11:43.250
  • you tell us something about what
  • 01:11:43.250 --> 01:11:45.050
  • it means, all right?
  • 01:11:45.050 --> 01:11:46.060
  • - Wayne: Great.
  • 01:11:46.060 --> 01:11:46.250
  • - Mark: Let's go to
  • 01:11:46.250 --> 01:11:47.130
  • - male: The roar of the
  • 01:12:05.190 --> 01:12:06.120
  • winds, the spray of the ocean.
  • 01:12:07.020 --> 01:12:10.020
  • The call that beckons
  • 01:12:10.020 --> 01:12:12.030
  • over land and sea.
  • 01:12:12.030 --> 01:12:14.070
  • A calling to return home.
  • 01:12:15.060 --> 01:12:18.060
  • A calling to the roots of our
  • 01:12:18.060 --> 01:12:19.230
  • tree, the seeds of your faith,
  • 01:12:19.230 --> 01:12:22.030
  • wherever they sown.
  • 01:12:26.170 --> 01:12:29.170
  • The chosen people,
  • 01:12:29.170 --> 01:12:31.070
  • the land of promise.
  • 01:12:31.070 --> 01:12:33.120
  • To read his Word
  • 01:12:33.120 --> 01:12:35.210
  • where it was spoken.
  • 01:12:35.210 --> 01:12:38.010
  • To ignite great flame and
  • 01:12:38.010 --> 01:12:39.070
  • abundant fire.
  • 01:12:39.070 --> 01:12:41.040
  • The land we read about is alive
  • 01:12:41.040 --> 01:12:43.170
  • Her heartbeat is a drum,
  • 01:13:06.250 --> 01:13:08.240
  • There's a stirring
  • 01:13:26.180 --> 01:13:29.180
  • in our generation to know his
  • 01:13:29.180 --> 01:13:31.260
  • heart, step into the Promised
  • 01:13:31.260 --> 01:13:34.080
  • Land, walk into destiny.
  • 01:13:36.190 --> 01:13:39.190
  • Encounter Jerusalem.
  • 01:13:39.190 --> 01:13:41.170
  • [audience applauding]
  • 01:13:47.030 --> 01:13:48.040
  • - Mark: Wow.
  • 01:13:48.040 --> 01:13:50.170
  • Powerful, powerful.
  • 01:13:50.170 --> 01:13:52.080
  • Encounter Jerusalem
  • 01:13:52.080 --> 01:13:53.140
  • in May of 2016.
  • 01:13:53.140 --> 01:13:55.290
  • Leading up to that,
  • 01:13:55.290 --> 01:13:57.190
  • tell us about the tour.
  • 01:13:57.190 --> 01:13:58.170
  • There's a tour that people can
  • 01:13:58.170 --> 01:14:00.050
  • take with you personally.
  • 01:14:00.050 --> 01:14:01.220
  • Is that right?
  • 01:14:01.220 --> 01:14:02.170
  • - Wayne: Right, May 24 to May
  • 01:14:02.170 --> 01:14:03.270
  • the conference itself.
  • 01:14:05.290 --> 01:14:07.000
  • And so it'll be a little
  • 01:14:07.000 --> 01:14:08.250
  • unusual.
  • 01:14:08.250 --> 01:14:09.180
  • We'll go to places where we'll
  • 01:14:09.180 --> 01:14:10.230
  • meet leaders of congregations
  • 01:14:10.230 --> 01:14:13.000
  • and ministries in various
  • 01:14:13.000 --> 01:14:15.020
  • geographical areas of Israel.
  • 01:14:15.020 --> 01:14:16.210
  • We'll pray with those leaders.
  • 01:14:16.210 --> 01:14:18.160
  • We'll--it'll be like
  • 01:14:18.160 --> 01:14:19.260
  • a prayer tour.
  • 01:14:19.260 --> 01:14:21.010
  • And then we've got a young
  • 01:14:21.010 --> 01:14:21.290
  • they'll do rappelling, Jeeping,
  • 01:14:24.140 --> 01:14:26.190
  • they'll be riding camels,
  • 01:14:26.190 --> 01:14:27.230
  • they'll be camping around
  • 01:14:27.230 --> 01:14:29.180
  • the Sea of Galilee, outside,
  • 01:14:29.180 --> 01:14:31.070
  • under the stars.
  • 01:14:31.070 --> 01:14:32.170
  • - Mark: Great.
  • 01:14:32.170 --> 01:14:33.060
  • - Wayne: And it'll be a cheaper
  • 01:14:33.060 --> 01:14:33.280
  • tour.
  • 01:14:33.280 --> 01:14:34.220
  • And air conditioning comes
  • 01:14:34.220 --> 01:14:37.040
  • for free, in the open air,
  • 01:14:37.040 --> 01:14:39.220
  • so we've got lots of options
  • 01:14:39.220 --> 01:14:41.240
  • so if anybody wants to go,
  • 01:14:41.240 --> 01:14:43.090
  • it's jerusalemencounter.com.
  • 01:14:43.090 --> 01:14:45.170
  • And all of those different types
  • 01:14:45.170 --> 01:14:47.060
  • of tours will be advertised.
  • 01:14:47.060 --> 01:14:49.020
  • And we're doing it at a great
  • 01:14:49.020 --> 01:14:51.000
  • price and, for young adults,
  • 01:14:51.000 --> 01:14:53.040
  • we've got some subsidies that'll
  • 01:14:53.040 --> 01:14:54.140
  • bring the price down even more.
  • 01:14:54.140 --> 01:14:55.290
  • - Mark: Wonderful.
  • 01:14:55.290 --> 01:14:56.250
  • That sounds exciting.
  • 01:14:56.250 --> 01:14:57.210
  • I did, among all the many tours
  • 01:14:57.210 --> 01:15:00.030
  • I've done, I did the Jeep
  • 01:15:00.030 --> 01:15:01.150
  • experience one time in the
  • 01:15:01.150 --> 01:15:03.020
  • desert out there.
  • 01:15:03.020 --> 01:15:04.010
  • It was really, really cool and I
  • 01:15:04.010 --> 01:15:05.170
  • urge anybody to go and the
  • 01:15:05.170 --> 01:15:06.230
  • opportunity to travel with you
  • 01:15:06.230 --> 01:15:08.110
  • personally should be a great,
  • 01:15:08.110 --> 01:15:10.040
  • great thing.
  • 01:15:10.040 --> 01:15:11.050
  • Now tell me about the conference
  • 01:15:11.050 --> 01:15:13.060
  • then and some of the speakers
  • 01:15:13.060 --> 01:15:14.210
  • and some of the things that
  • 01:15:14.210 --> 01:15:15.260
  • people that come and do the tour
  • 01:15:15.260 --> 01:15:17.190
  • or and/or come just for the
  • 01:15:17.190 --> 01:15:20.120
  • conference, what happens there?
  • 01:15:20.120 --> 01:15:21.280
  • - Wayne: Right.
  • 01:15:21.280 --> 01:15:22.190
  • Well, one of the things we're
  • 01:15:22.190 --> 01:15:23.100
  • doing through FIRM is really
  • 01:15:23.100 --> 01:15:24.200
  • trying to awaken the younger
  • 01:15:24.200 --> 01:15:26.250
  • generation to what God's doing
  • 01:15:26.250 --> 01:15:28.120
  • with the Jewish people in
  • 01:15:28.120 --> 01:15:29.120
  • the nation of Israel.
  • 01:15:29.120 --> 01:15:30.180
  • You know, a lot of older people,
  • 01:15:30.180 --> 01:15:32.260
  • if there's an Israel conference,
  • 01:15:32.260 --> 01:15:34.170
  • they'll come, they're excited.
  • 01:15:34.170 --> 01:15:36.040
  • And some who are much older
  • 01:15:36.040 --> 01:15:38.070
  • remember the Holocaust and they
  • 01:15:38.070 --> 01:15:40.120
  • remember the rebirth of
  • 01:15:40.120 --> 01:15:41.200
  • the nation of Israel out of
  • 01:15:41.200 --> 01:15:42.270
  • the ashes of the Holocaust.
  • 01:15:42.270 --> 01:15:44.100
  • They were alive to see the
  • 01:15:44.100 --> 01:15:45.160
  • Six-Day War and the miraculous
  • 01:15:45.160 --> 01:15:47.060
  • victory of Israel over their
  • 01:15:47.060 --> 01:15:48.180
  • enemies.
  • 01:15:48.180 --> 01:15:49.170
  • And all kinds of miraculous
  • 01:15:49.170 --> 01:15:50.260
  • things that have happened in
  • 01:15:50.260 --> 01:15:52.000
  • history.
  • 01:15:52.000 --> 01:15:54.040
  • But young people, especially
  • 01:15:54.040 --> 01:15:55.130
  • milennials between the age of 19
  • 01:15:55.130 --> 01:15:56.160
  • and 36, have not witnessed those
  • 01:15:58.050 --> 01:16:01.070
  • kinds of things in their
  • 01:16:01.070 --> 01:16:02.190
  • generation.
  • 01:16:02.190 --> 01:16:03.280
  • And so we're trying to get our
  • 01:16:03.280 --> 01:16:05.040
  • message especially to a younger
  • 01:16:05.040 --> 01:16:06.100
  • generation.
  • 01:16:06.100 --> 01:16:07.040
  • So we have speakers that, I
  • 01:16:07.040 --> 01:16:08.040
  • think, really can gear
  • 01:16:08.040 --> 01:16:10.070
  • themselves to an audience like
  • 01:16:10.070 --> 01:16:11.220
  • that.
  • 01:16:11.220 --> 01:16:12.130
  • People like Jentezen Franklin
  • 01:16:12.130 --> 01:16:13.150
  • who will be there.
  • 01:16:13.150 --> 01:16:14.240
  • Francis Chan who relates very
  • 01:16:14.240 --> 01:16:17.040
  • much to young adults.
  • 01:16:17.040 --> 01:16:18.240
  • We have Jack Hayford although a
  • 01:16:18.240 --> 01:16:20.210
  • little older he's--he can speak
  • 01:16:20.230 --> 01:16:23.230
  • to any generation.
  • 01:16:23.230 --> 01:16:24.130
  • - Mark: Any generation.
  • 01:16:24.130 --> 01:16:25.100
  • - Wayne: And then
  • 01:16:25.100 --> 01:16:26.030
  • Rich Wilkerson Jr., who really
  • 01:16:26.030 --> 01:16:28.000
  • is speaking to youth today.
  • 01:16:28.000 --> 01:16:29.130
  • And so we've got top-notch
  • 01:16:29.130 --> 01:16:31.040
  • speakers.
  • 01:16:31.040 --> 01:16:31.290
  • And then speakers from the land
  • 01:16:31.290 --> 01:16:33.100
  • so that they'll get an authentic
  • 01:16:33.100 --> 01:16:35.010
  • local Israeli experience through
  • 01:16:35.010 --> 01:16:36.240
  • that whole conference.
  • 01:16:36.240 --> 01:16:38.020
  • - Mark: Wonderful.
  • 01:16:38.020 --> 01:16:38.240
  • May 24.
  • 01:16:38.240 --> 01:16:40.090
  • - Wayne: That's the tour that
  • 01:16:40.090 --> 01:16:41.110
  • begins on the 24th.
  • 01:16:41.110 --> 01:16:42.210
  • - Mark: And then the conference
  • 01:16:42.210 --> 01:16:43.280
  • begins?
  • 01:16:43.280 --> 01:16:44.220
  • - Wayne: 31st.
  • 01:16:44.220 --> 01:16:45.090
  • - Mark: The 31st.
  • 01:16:45.090 --> 01:16:46.040
  • - Wayne: Through June 2.
  • 01:16:46.040 --> 01:16:47.150
  • - Mark: Wonderful.
  • 01:16:47.150 --> 01:16:48.040
  • It's gonna be a great
  • 01:16:48.040 --> 01:16:48.220
  • experience.
  • 01:16:48.220 --> 01:16:50.040
  • I wanna shift gears just a
  • 01:16:50.040 --> 01:16:50.280
  • little bit and talk to you about
  • 01:16:50.280 --> 01:16:52.010
  • something that has been
  • 01:16:52.010 --> 01:16:53.090
  • concerning me a great deal
  • 01:16:53.090 --> 01:16:54.210
  • lately as a former university
  • 01:16:54.210 --> 01:16:55.240
  • president at two different
  • 01:16:55.240 --> 01:16:57.030
  • universities.
  • 01:16:57.030 --> 01:16:58.200
  • I've watched not just in secular
  • 01:16:58.200 --> 01:17:01.150
  • state universities, but even on
  • 01:17:01.150 --> 01:17:04.010
  • the campus of some well-known
  • 01:17:04.010 --> 01:17:05.110
  • Christian universities.
  • 01:17:05.110 --> 01:17:07.180
  • I have become alarmed at
  • 01:17:07.180 --> 01:17:10.030
  • a rising tide of anti-Israeli
  • 01:17:10.030 --> 01:17:12.210
  • sentiment.
  • 01:17:12.210 --> 01:17:14.030
  • And it's concerning me in a very
  • 01:17:14.030 --> 01:17:16.280
  • real way, not just anti-Israeli
  • 01:17:16.280 --> 01:17:18.240
  • sentiment, but I'm not sure to
  • 01:17:18.240 --> 01:17:21.140
  • what extent somebody can be
  • 01:17:21.140 --> 01:17:22.160
  • thoroughgoing anti-Israel and
  • 01:17:22.160 --> 01:17:25.110
  • not be to a certain extent
  • 01:17:25.110 --> 01:17:26.250
  • anti-Semitic.
  • 01:17:26.250 --> 01:17:27.230
  • And it's concerning me
  • 01:17:27.230 --> 01:17:29.280
  • very much, Wayne.
  • 01:17:29.280 --> 01:17:32.010
  • I wonder if you have a word on
  • 01:17:32.010 --> 01:17:33.010
  • it.
  • 01:17:33.010 --> 01:17:34.010
  • - Wayne: Well, this is one of
  • 01:17:34.010 --> 01:17:34.220
  • the reasons why we formed FIRM,
  • 01:17:34.220 --> 01:17:36.100
  • this Fellowship of Israel
  • 01:17:36.100 --> 01:17:37.210
  • Related Ministries, in order to
  • 01:17:37.210 --> 01:17:39.030
  • get to that generation that are
  • 01:17:39.030 --> 01:17:40.210
  • definitely pulling away their
  • 01:17:40.210 --> 01:17:43.200
  • support from Israel.
  • 01:17:43.200 --> 01:17:45.280
  • I think there are a number of
  • 01:17:45.280 --> 01:17:46.290
  • reasons for it.
  • 01:17:46.290 --> 01:17:47.250
  • I think your average, even
  • 01:17:47.250 --> 01:17:48.270
  • Christian university student who
  • 01:17:48.270 --> 01:17:51.140
  • enters university--you've been
  • 01:17:51.140 --> 01:17:53.280
  • a president, you know this--I
  • 01:17:53.280 --> 01:17:54.290
  • would say, somewhat biblically
  • 01:17:54.290 --> 01:17:57.160
  • illiterate.
  • 01:17:57.160 --> 01:17:58.270
  • There are exceptions to that
  • 01:17:58.270 --> 01:17:59.220
  • rule.
  • 01:17:59.220 --> 01:18:00.110
  • But if you don't know the Word
  • 01:18:00.110 --> 01:18:01.210
  • of God, you don't know the
  • 01:18:01.210 --> 01:18:02.170
  • promises concerning the Jewish
  • 01:18:02.170 --> 01:18:03.200
  • people and the everlasting
  • 01:18:03.200 --> 01:18:05.090
  • covenants that have been made
  • 01:18:05.090 --> 01:18:07.010
  • with Israel, then you're gonna
  • 01:18:07.010 --> 01:18:08.260
  • look at the world through the
  • 01:18:08.260 --> 01:18:09.240
  • eyes of the media and the news
  • 01:18:09.240 --> 01:18:11.130
  • and a slanted version of the
  • 01:18:11.130 --> 01:18:14.020
  • news, and you might tend to go
  • 01:18:14.020 --> 01:18:15.170
  • for the underdog.
  • 01:18:15.230 --> 01:18:18.230
  • I mean, Israel now looks like
  • 01:18:18.230 --> 01:18:20.110
  • Goliath and the Palestinians,
  • 01:18:20.110 --> 01:18:23.060
  • David.
  • 01:18:23.060 --> 01:18:24.180
  • But the reality is, Israel is
  • 01:18:24.180 --> 01:18:26.070
  • surrounded by people that the
  • 01:18:26.140 --> 01:18:29.140
  • majority of whom would love to
  • 01:18:29.140 --> 01:18:31.280
  • see Israel disappear off the
  • 01:18:31.280 --> 01:18:32.280
  • map.
  • 01:18:32.280 --> 01:18:34.000
  • - Mark: I always say Israel is
  • 01:18:34.000 --> 01:18:34.290
  • like a really nice family living
  • 01:18:34.290 --> 01:18:37.000
  • in a really nice house in a
  • 01:18:37.000 --> 01:18:38.150
  • really bad neighborhood.
  • 01:18:38.150 --> 01:18:40.030
  • - Wayne: Yeah.
  • 01:18:40.030 --> 01:18:40.210
  • - Mark: And they're just
  • 01:18:40.210 --> 01:18:42.040
  • surrounded.
  • 01:18:42.040 --> 01:18:42.280
  • If every Arab country in the
  • 01:18:43.030 --> 01:18:46.030
  • world disarmed and put their
  • 01:18:46.030 --> 01:18:48.120
  • armies aside tomorrow, Israel
  • 01:18:48.280 --> 01:18:51.280
  • does nothing.
  • 01:18:51.280 --> 01:18:52.220
  • If Israel disarmed in the
  • 01:18:52.220 --> 01:18:54.220
  • morning, they're finished.
  • 01:18:54.220 --> 01:18:56.080
  • - Wayne: Exactly.
  • 01:18:56.080 --> 01:18:57.040
  • - Mark: And this is the message
  • 01:18:57.040 --> 01:18:58.150
  • that is not reaching the
  • 01:18:58.150 --> 01:18:59.270
  • American campus.
  • 01:18:59.270 --> 01:19:01.150
  • - Wayne: Israel wants peace.
  • 01:19:01.150 --> 01:19:02.200
  • I've lived there 32 years.
  • 01:19:02.200 --> 01:19:04.120
  • I know the heart of the people.
  • 01:19:04.120 --> 01:19:05.220
  • They're tired of war, they're
  • 01:19:05.220 --> 01:19:06.250
  • tired of terrorism.
  • 01:19:06.250 --> 01:19:08.000
  • And Israel's made gestures,
  • 01:19:08.000 --> 01:19:10.220
  • pretty bold moves, to really
  • 01:19:10.220 --> 01:19:12.050
  • show that they want peace.
  • 01:19:12.050 --> 01:19:14.060
  • They gave up the Sinai, which
  • 01:19:14.060 --> 01:19:15.120
  • they won in a defensive war, and
  • 01:19:15.120 --> 01:19:17.270
  • oil resources in the Sinai.
  • 01:19:17.270 --> 01:19:20.090
  • Gave it up for the sake of peace
  • 01:19:20.090 --> 01:19:22.240
  • with Egypt.
  • 01:19:22.240 --> 01:19:24.010
  • They've done similar things with
  • 01:19:24.010 --> 01:19:25.240
  • other neighbors, Jordan as well.
  • 01:19:25.240 --> 01:19:28.050
  • And there's clearly proof that,
  • 01:19:28.100 --> 01:19:31.100
  • for the most part, Israelis want
  • 01:19:31.100 --> 01:19:33.070
  • to be at peace with their Arab
  • 01:19:33.070 --> 01:19:35.090
  • neighbors.
  • 01:19:35.090 --> 01:19:36.160
  • When we got to Israel, there was
  • 01:19:36.160 --> 01:19:37.240
  • actually a very good
  • 01:19:37.240 --> 01:19:38.260
  • relationship between Palestinian
  • 01:19:38.260 --> 01:19:40.050
  • Arabs and Jews, doing business
  • 01:19:40.050 --> 01:19:42.030
  • together, sitting in the same
  • 01:19:42.030 --> 01:19:43.210
  • restaurant together.
  • 01:19:43.210 --> 01:19:45.110
  • And it's only been in the last
  • 01:19:45.110 --> 01:19:47.040
  • 20 years or so where we've seen
  • 01:19:47.040 --> 01:19:48.290
  • this uprising and I would call
  • 01:19:48.290 --> 01:19:51.260
  • it a demonic hatred against the
  • 01:19:51.260 --> 01:19:53.220
  • Jewish people.
  • 01:19:53.220 --> 01:19:54.260
  • Anti-Semitism is raising its
  • 01:19:54.260 --> 01:19:56.000
  • ugly head all over the world
  • 01:19:56.000 --> 01:19:57.210
  • today.
  • 01:19:57.210 --> 01:19:59.100
  • And I believe it's a work of the
  • 01:19:59.100 --> 01:20:00.200
  • enemy and I believe that we've
  • 01:20:00.200 --> 01:20:02.120
  • got to go back to God's Word,
  • 01:20:02.120 --> 01:20:04.070
  • believe it, trust in God's
  • 01:20:04.070 --> 01:20:06.280
  • promises, and stand with what he
  • 01:20:06.280 --> 01:20:08.250
  • stands for.
  • 01:20:08.250 --> 01:20:10.270
  • - Mark: I just read an
  • 01:20:10.270 --> 01:20:12.090
  • astonishing quote from the
  • 01:20:12.090 --> 01:20:13.210
  • President of the Israel
  • 01:20:13.210 --> 01:20:15.090
  • Fellowship in Marseille in
  • 01:20:15.230 --> 01:20:18.230
  • France, urging French Jews to
  • 01:20:18.230 --> 01:20:21.170
  • quit wearing skull caps
  • 01:20:21.170 --> 01:20:24.140
  • in public.
  • 01:20:24.140 --> 01:20:25.090
  • He said, "It's time
  • 01:20:25.090 --> 01:20:26.160
  • for us to hide."
  • 01:20:26.160 --> 01:20:27.240
  • Now, I did see the Chief Rabbi
  • 01:20:27.240 --> 01:20:28.210
  • oppose that statement but the
  • 01:20:28.210 --> 01:20:30.140
  • President of Israel Association
  • 01:20:30.140 --> 01:20:32.010
  • in Marseille urging Jews.
  • 01:20:32.010 --> 01:20:33.270
  • He said, "It's time for Jews
  • 01:20:33.270 --> 01:20:35.060
  • in France to hide."
  • 01:20:35.060 --> 01:20:36.260
  • I was shocked and horrified.
  • 01:20:36.260 --> 01:20:38.230
  • This is a--they're urging--this
  • 01:20:39.000 --> 01:20:42.000
  • kind of urging reveals a very
  • 01:20:42.120 --> 01:20:45.120
  • dark beginning in Europe.
  • 01:20:45.120 --> 01:20:47.040
  • And I'm very, very concerned
  • 01:20:47.040 --> 01:20:48.150
  • about it.
  • 01:20:48.150 --> 01:20:49.110
  • - Wayne: One of the positive
  • 01:20:49.110 --> 01:20:50.020
  • things, if you can try to find
  • 01:20:50.020 --> 01:20:51.260
  • something positive in all of
  • 01:20:51.260 --> 01:20:52.270
  • this, is that Jewish people are
  • 01:20:52.270 --> 01:20:54.110
  • returning to the land of Israel
  • 01:20:54.110 --> 01:20:56.220
  • and seeing that as a safe haven
  • 01:20:56.220 --> 01:20:58.230
  • in comparison to the threats
  • 01:20:58.230 --> 01:21:00.250
  • they feel around the world
  • 01:21:00.250 --> 01:21:01.210
  • today.
  • 01:21:01.210 --> 01:21:02.290
  • And that's according to
  • 01:21:02.290 --> 01:21:03.260
  • the promises of God.
  • 01:21:03.260 --> 01:21:04.270
  • All through the Scriptures, in
  • 01:21:04.270 --> 01:21:06.050
  • the Hebrew Scriptures, there is
  • 01:21:06.050 --> 01:21:09.030
  • the prophecy of the return of
  • 01:21:09.030 --> 01:21:10.270
  • the Jews to the same piece of
  • 01:21:10.270 --> 01:21:12.030
  • real estate promised to Abraham,
  • 01:21:12.030 --> 01:21:13.130
  • Isaac, and Jacob.
  • 01:21:13.130 --> 01:21:14.140
  • It's happening in our day.
  • 01:21:14.140 --> 01:21:16.060
  • - Mark: If I were a teacher or
  • 01:21:18.000 --> 01:21:21.000
  • a parent or a grandparent and I
  • 01:21:21.000 --> 01:21:22.270
  • had young adults that I wanted
  • 01:21:22.270 --> 01:21:24.180
  • to encounter Jerusalem and
  • 01:21:24.180 --> 01:21:27.050
  • encounter your theology and your
  • 01:21:27.050 --> 01:21:29.160
  • teaching and your ministry and
  • 01:21:29.160 --> 01:21:30.250
  • to get a clearer view of all
  • 01:21:31.200 --> 01:21:34.200
  • this than they can get on CNN,
  • 01:21:34.200 --> 01:21:36.110
  • would I do well to send them to
  • 01:21:36.110 --> 01:21:38.260
  • Jerusalem Encounter in May?
  • 01:21:38.260 --> 01:21:40.240
  • - Wayne: Absolutely.
  • 01:21:40.240 --> 01:21:41.160
  • We're gonna be showing them and
  • 01:21:41.160 --> 01:21:43.100
  • not just teaching them what's
  • 01:21:43.100 --> 01:21:44.230
  • really going on in the land.
  • 01:21:44.230 --> 01:21:46.040
  • And we've had these kinds of
  • 01:21:46.040 --> 01:21:49.020
  • things happen before, not of
  • 01:21:49.020 --> 01:21:50.220
  • this size, but young people
  • 01:21:50.240 --> 01:21:53.240
  • going back, saying,
  • 01:21:53.240 --> 01:21:55.120
  • "It's not what they told us.
  • 01:21:55.120 --> 01:21:57.040
  • I've seen it with my own eyes.
  • 01:21:57.040 --> 01:21:58.160
  • I've experienced it
  • 01:21:58.160 --> 01:22:00.280
  • face to face."
  • 01:22:00.280 --> 01:22:02.010
  • - Mark: I was in a meeting with
  • 01:22:02.010 --> 01:22:03.000
  • Benjamin Netanyahu and he said
  • 01:22:03.000 --> 01:22:04.190
  • a statement.
  • 01:22:04.190 --> 01:22:05.270
  • It certainly popped my eyes
  • 01:22:05.270 --> 01:22:07.210
  • open.
  • 01:22:07.210 --> 01:22:09.080
  • He said the--given the history
  • 01:22:09.080 --> 01:22:11.260
  • of what we're talking about,
  • 01:22:11.260 --> 01:22:12.260
  • about statements, crazy
  • 01:22:12.260 --> 01:22:14.050
  • statements about Martin Luther
  • 01:22:14.050 --> 01:22:15.070
  • and things like that and the
  • 01:22:15.070 --> 01:22:16.080
  • replacement theology, Netanyahu
  • 01:22:16.080 --> 01:22:18.090
  • said, "The greatest friend
  • 01:22:18.090 --> 01:22:19.170
  • Israel has in the world
  • 01:22:19.170 --> 01:22:21.250
  • are American Evangelical
  • 01:22:21.250 --> 01:22:23.230
  • Christians."
  • 01:22:23.230 --> 01:22:24.240
  • I was shocked when he said that.
  • 01:22:24.240 --> 01:22:26.250
  • That's an amazing statement from
  • 01:22:26.250 --> 01:22:27.230
  • the Prime Minister.
  • 01:22:27.230 --> 01:22:28.230
  • - Wayne: He says it often.
  • 01:22:28.230 --> 01:22:29.210
  • He says it often but here we are
  • 01:22:29.210 --> 01:22:32.010
  • dealing also with a younger
  • 01:22:32.010 --> 01:22:33.020
  • generation that does not have
  • 01:22:33.020 --> 01:22:34.170
  • that tradition and that biblical
  • 01:22:34.170 --> 01:22:36.220
  • knowledge and this is an
  • 01:22:36.220 --> 01:22:39.110
  • alarming reality.
  • 01:22:39.110 --> 01:22:41.130
  • And I think Israel's now
  • 01:22:41.130 --> 01:22:43.000
  • wakening to that fact as well.
  • 01:22:43.000 --> 01:22:44.230
  • And they're actually encouraging
  • 01:22:44.230 --> 01:22:47.050
  • young evangelicals to come to
  • 01:22:47.050 --> 01:22:49.250
  • Israel and are doing their best
  • 01:22:49.250 --> 01:22:52.070
  • to show them the true face of
  • 01:22:52.070 --> 01:22:54.050
  • the nation.
  • 01:22:54.050 --> 01:22:55.020
  • - Mark: And not just
  • 01:22:55.020 --> 01:22:55.240
  • the biblical history but just
  • 01:22:55.240 --> 01:22:57.130
  • the history.
  • 01:22:57.130 --> 01:22:58.190
  • They--there's very few courses
  • 01:22:58.190 --> 01:23:00.250
  • taught on the American campus of
  • 01:23:00.250 --> 01:23:02.210
  • things.
  • 01:23:02.210 --> 01:23:03.250
  • How do they understand the
  • 01:23:03.250 --> 01:23:04.200
  • Balfour Agreement?
  • 01:23:04.200 --> 01:23:05.200
  • How do they understand what 1948
  • 01:23:05.200 --> 01:23:07.010
  • was about?
  • 01:23:07.010 --> 01:23:08.010
  • The Six-Day War, the '70s,
  • 01:23:08.010 --> 01:23:10.130
  • how--that has to be taught and
  • 01:23:10.130 --> 01:23:13.020
  • it has to be taught from the
  • 01:23:13.020 --> 01:23:14.100
  • right world view or people come
  • 01:23:14.100 --> 01:23:15.160
  • out with a very skewed view of
  • 01:23:15.160 --> 01:23:16.280
  • the Middle East.
  • 01:23:16.280 --> 01:23:18.050
  • - Wayne: Absolutely.
  • 01:23:18.050 --> 01:23:18.240
  • have many articles now that are
  • 01:23:22.150 --> 01:23:23.190
  • explaining the history, the
  • 01:23:23.290 --> 01:23:26.290
  • background, the theology,
  • 01:23:26.290 --> 01:23:28.140
  • stand with Israel the way we do.
  • 01:23:30.260 --> 01:23:32.160
  • So that's an excellent site to
  • 01:23:32.160 --> 01:23:34.150
  • get these resources.
  • 01:23:34.150 --> 01:23:35.170
  • We're also really emphasizing
  • 01:23:35.170 --> 01:23:37.160
  • social media.
  • 01:23:37.160 --> 01:23:39.030
  • So we use Instagram, Facebook,
  • 01:23:39.030 --> 01:23:40.220
  • Twitter, to get that message out
  • 01:23:40.220 --> 01:23:43.000
  • and we're getting incredible
  • 01:23:43.000 --> 01:23:44.120
  • engagement from all over the
  • 01:23:44.120 --> 01:23:45.200
  • world.
  • 01:23:45.200 --> 01:23:46.100
  • And now, especially from a
  • 01:23:46.100 --> 01:23:47.140
  • younger generation that are
  • 01:23:47.140 --> 01:23:49.010
  • seeing what we're saying.
  • 01:23:49.010 --> 01:23:50.260
  • They're seeing that it has
  • 01:23:50.260 --> 01:23:51.260
  • biblical basis and that they
  • 01:23:51.260 --> 01:23:54.000
  • need to do something about it.
  • 01:23:54.000 --> 01:23:55.150
  • - Mark: Let me--we just have
  • 01:23:55.150 --> 01:23:57.250
  • a couple of minutes.
  • 01:23:57.250 --> 01:23:58.260
  • I wanna ask you, probably,
  • 01:23:58.260 --> 01:23:59.240
  • the most difficult question of
  • 01:23:59.240 --> 01:24:00.270
  • the night.
  • 01:24:00.270 --> 01:24:01.270
  • So here it is.
  • 01:24:01.270 --> 01:24:02.230
  • What if I'm also a parent or
  • 01:24:02.230 --> 01:24:04.250
  • a grandparent or whatever and I
  • 01:24:04.250 --> 01:24:05.280
  • say, "I don't wanna send my
  • 01:24:05.280 --> 01:24:06.250
  • young person to Jerusalem right
  • 01:24:06.250 --> 01:24:08.070
  • now because it's dangerous."
  • 01:24:08.070 --> 01:24:10.000
  • How would you answer?
  • 01:24:10.000 --> 01:24:11.190
  • - Wayne: Well, first of all, we
  • 01:24:11.190 --> 01:24:13.200
  • need to have a sense of trust in
  • 01:24:14.060 --> 01:24:17.060
  • God that he's gonna protect us
  • 01:24:17.060 --> 01:24:18.230
  • and keep us if it's his will for
  • 01:24:18.230 --> 01:24:20.140
  • us to visit Israel and see
  • 01:24:20.140 --> 01:24:22.060
  • what's happening there.
  • 01:24:22.060 --> 01:24:24.040
  • Statistically, it's safer to be
  • 01:24:24.040 --> 01:24:26.090
  • in Jerusalem than many American
  • 01:24:26.090 --> 01:24:28.290
  • large cities.
  • 01:24:28.290 --> 01:24:30.080
  • - Mark: You got that right.
  • 01:24:30.080 --> 01:24:31.010
  • - Wayne: And it is absolutely
  • 01:24:31.010 --> 01:24:31.240
  • true.
  • 01:24:31.240 --> 01:24:32.270
  • And so I know that guides, and
  • 01:24:32.270 --> 01:24:35.170
  • I'll be one of those people
  • 01:24:35.170 --> 01:24:36.280
  • taking people around, we will
  • 01:24:36.280 --> 01:24:38.150
  • avoid areas that could
  • 01:24:38.150 --> 01:24:39.190
  • potentially be dangerous.
  • 01:24:39.190 --> 01:24:41.120
  • And I can assure people they'll
  • 01:24:41.120 --> 01:24:43.210
  • be safe.
  • 01:24:43.210 --> 01:24:44.120
  • - Mark: The most well-cared for
  • 01:24:45.040 --> 01:24:48.040
  • group of people in the whole
  • 01:24:48.040 --> 01:24:49.200
  • world, watched over, guarded,
  • 01:24:49.200 --> 01:24:51.080
  • protected, and cared for, are
  • 01:24:51.080 --> 01:24:53.100
  • tourists in Jerusalem.
  • 01:24:53.100 --> 01:24:55.220
  • - Wayne: That's true.
  • 01:24:55.220 --> 01:24:56.130
  • That's for sure.
  • 01:24:56.130 --> 01:24:57.050
  • - Mark: And I urge the--I urge
  • 01:24:57.050 --> 01:24:58.140
  • people to go and I urge young
  • 01:24:58.140 --> 01:25:00.090
  • people to take this.
  • 01:25:00.090 --> 01:25:01.280
  • Wayne, all the way from
  • 01:25:01.280 --> 01:25:04.080
  • Jerusalem, Wayne Hilsden,
  • 01:25:04.080 --> 01:25:05.240
  • thank you so very much for
  • 01:25:05.240 --> 01:25:06.290
  • being with us.
  • 01:25:06.290 --> 01:25:07.250
  • - Wayne: Thank you, doctor.
  • 01:25:07.250 --> 01:25:08.200
  • - Mark: You bless us.
  • 01:25:08.200 --> 01:25:09.180
  • - Wayne: Bless you.
  • 01:25:09.180 --> 01:25:10.120
  • - Mark: God bless you.
  • 01:25:10.120 --> 01:25:11.050
  • And God bless your work.
  • 01:25:11.050 --> 01:25:11.290
  • - Wayne: Thank you.
  • 01:25:11.290 --> 01:25:13.060
  • - Mark: Now let me just urge
  • 01:25:13.060 --> 01:25:14.260
  • you right now, we have heard
  • 01:25:14.260 --> 01:25:17.060
  • tonight some of the most
  • 01:25:17.060 --> 01:25:18.130
  • creative minds in the Christian
  • 01:25:18.130 --> 01:25:19.210
  • community today.
  • 01:25:19.210 --> 01:25:21.080
  • But God himself is your partner.
  • 01:25:21.080 --> 01:25:24.030
  • He is the lover of your soul.
  • 01:25:24.030 --> 01:25:26.090
  • Turn to him and believe him
  • 01:25:26.090 --> 01:25:27.270
  • for victory through it all
  • 01:25:27.270 --> 01:25:29.120
  • [audience applauding]
  • 01:25:35.070 --> 01:25:38.070
  • - announcer: We're so glad
  • 01:25:38.070 --> 01:25:39.020
  • you've been with us
  • 01:25:39.020 --> 01:25:39.280
  • for "Praise The Lord."
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  • TBN has a worldwide ministry.
  • 01:25:41.110 --> 01:25:43.170
  • We need your love gifts,
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  • large or small, to help keep
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  • the Gospel of Jesus Christ
  • 01:25:46.100 --> 01:25:47.170
  • going around the world.
  • 01:25:47.170 --> 01:25:49.000
  • So write today, Praise The Lord,
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  • P.O. Box A,
  • 01:25:50.230 --> 01:25:52.060
  • Santa Ana, California 92711.
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  • If you haven't asked Christ into
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  • your life, call a prayer partner
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  • now and pray to receive Jesus
  • 01:25:59.040 --> 01:26:00.290
  • as Savior and Lord.
  • 01:26:00.290 --> 01:26:03.020
  • Now until next time,
  • 01:26:03.020 --> 01:26:04.020
  • [music]
  • 01:26:24.280 --> 01:26:27.280
  • Praise...
  • 01:26:29.290 --> 01:26:32.290
  • Praise the Lord!
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  • - announcer: This program
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  • has been brought to you through
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  • the prayers and contributions of
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  • our faithful partners throughout
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  • our faithful partners throughout
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