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Praise

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November 1, 2019
59:05

Matt & Laurie Crouch host Robert Orlando

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Praise

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  • - TONIGHT ON PRAISE FROM NEW YORK CITY, DIRECTOR
  • 00:00:07.250 --> 00:00:12.010
  • OF THE DIVINE PLAN, ROBERT ORLANDO.
  • 00:00:12.030 --> 00:00:16.040
  • [MUSIC]
  • 00:00:16.060 --> 00:00:20.250
  • - AND NOW MATT AND LAURIE CROUCH!
  • 00:00:20.270 --> 00:00:23.250
  • - MATT CROUCH: ONE OF MY FAVORITE THINGS IN THE
  • 00:00:23.270 --> 00:00:25.140
  • ENTIRE WORLD IS TO COME TO NEW YORK CITY AND DO
  • 00:00:25.160 --> 00:00:29.170
  • THE PRAISE PROGRAM SPECIALLY WHEN IT'S
  • 00:00:29.190 --> 00:00:31.260
  • TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING AS IMPORTANT AS A DIVINE PLAN.
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  • OKAY. SO ROBERT ORLANDO, YOU'LL BE WITH US THIS ENTIRE
  • 00:00:37.090 --> 00:00:39.280
  • ONE HOUR.
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  • YOU'VE DONE A DOCUMENTARY ON A VERY VERY IMPORTANT
  • 00:00:41.110 --> 00:00:44.220
  • SUBJECT MATTER.
  • 00:00:44.240 --> 00:00:46.180
  • TYPICALLY THE WAY WE DO PRAISE IS I SAY SOMETHING
  • 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:51.130
  • FOR ABOUT FIVE SECONDS AND HAND IT TO YOU, BUT I
  • 00:00:51.150 --> 00:00:53.290
  • THINK I'M GOING TO DO SOMETHING SLIGHTLY
  • 00:00:54.010 --> 00:00:55.120
  • DIFFERENT AND SET IT UP LIKE THIS, TO ANYBODY
  • 00:00:55.140 --> 00:00:58.130
  • THAT IS RELATIVELY OUR AGE --
  • 00:00:58.150 --> 00:01:02.120
  • - LAURIE CROUCH: HE'S JUST A BABY COMPARED --
  • 00:01:02.140 --> 00:01:04.260
  • - YOU'RE A LITTLE BIT MY JUNIOR, BUT THE MAJORITY
  • 00:01:04.280 --> 00:01:07.180
  • OF US THAT POSSIBLY ARE WATCHING RIGHT NOW
  • 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:11.090
  • STARTED THEIR SCHOOL CAREERS, MY SCHOOL WAS IN
  • 00:01:11.110 --> 00:01:16.160
  • CORONA, CALIFORNIA, LATER ON IN LAKE ARROWHEAD
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  • ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, I REMEMBER SPECIFICALLY
  • 00:01:20.120 --> 00:01:22.240
  • DOING SOMETHING ABOUT LIKE THIS.
  • 00:01:22.260 --> 00:01:27.140
  • - OKAY.
  • 00:01:27.160 --> 00:01:31.130
  • [MIMICKING SIREN]
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  • - WHAT WOULD THAT BE CALLED, DEAR?
  • 00:01:33.130 --> 00:01:34.290
  • - THAT WAS BASICALLY DUCK AND COVER DRILL.
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  • - BESIDES INCONVENIENT.
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  • [LAUGHTER]
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  • - SO NORMALLY YOU HAVE MIKES ON AND I COULDN'T
  • 00:01:39.250 --> 00:01:41.130
  • HAVE DONE THAT, SO ANYWAY, WE GREW UP IN
  • 00:01:41.150 --> 00:01:48.130
  • WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE COLD WAR.
  • 00:01:48.150 --> 00:01:50.230
  • - YEAH.
  • 00:01:50.250 --> 00:01:52.060
  • - AND YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF YOUNGER PEOPLE,
  • 00:01:52.080 --> 00:01:55.120
  • OUR KIDS AND OUR YOUNGER THAN US PROBABLY HAVE
  • 00:01:55.140 --> 00:02:01.030
  • HEARD VERY LITTLE ABOUT THE IDEA THAT WE AS
  • 00:02:01.050 --> 00:02:04.230
  • CHILDREN WERE FEARING AN INVASION FROM RUSSIA.
  • 00:02:04.250 --> 00:02:09.290
  • OKAY.
  • 00:02:10.010 --> 00:02:11.060
  • ALONG COMES RONALD REAGAN, AND THAT'S REALLY
  • 00:02:11.080 --> 00:02:14.090
  • WHERE I WANT TO DROP IT OFF TO YOU.
  • 00:02:14.110 --> 00:02:16.240
  • RONALD REAGAN WAS ELECTED PRESIDENT IN 1980, AND
  • 00:02:16.260 --> 00:02:21.030
  • THINGS STARTED CHANGING.
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  • A PLAN STARTED HATCHING, BUT YOU HAVE TO ALMOST
  • 00:02:22.230 --> 00:02:26.100
  • WIND THE CLOCK BACK EVEN BEFORE THAT, SO WHY DON'T
  • 00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:29.240
  • WE START WITH WHAT FIRST OF ALL YOUR DOCUMENTARY
  • 00:02:29.260 --> 00:02:33.160
  • IS ABOUT, IT IS A FATHOM EVENT, NOVEMBER 6.
  • 00:02:33.180 --> 00:02:36.220
  • AND WE WANT YOU TO BE A PART OF IT.
  • 00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:40.000
  • SO WE'RE GOING TO GIVE YOU A LOT OF CHANCES TO
  • 00:02:40.020 --> 00:02:43.000
  • GET THAT DATE WRITTEN DOWN, NOVEMBER 6,
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  • FATHOM EVENT.
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  • GO AHEAD.
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  • LET'S GET INTO THE SUBJECT MATTER.
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  • - ROBERT ORLANDO: SO IF I WAS DOING MY ELEVATOR
  • 00:02:49.090 --> 00:02:50.180
  • PITCH HERE, I WOULD SAY MY IN INCITING INCIDENT
  • 00:02:50.200 --> 00:02:52.200
  • OR THE INCITING INCIDENT OF HISTORY THAT BROUGHT
  • 00:02:52.220 --> 00:02:54.080
  • THESE 2 MEN TOGETHER WAS WHEN BOTH OF THEM WERE
  • 00:02:54.100 --> 00:02:57.010
  • NEARLY ASSASSINATED WITHIN SIX WEEKS OF ONE
  • 00:02:57.030 --> 00:02:59.130
  • ANOTHER, AND THEN THEY MET A YEAR LATER IN '82 AT
  • 00:02:59.150 --> 00:03:02.290
  • THE VATICAN, AND RONALD REAGAN REVEALED TO JOHN
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  • PAUL 2 THAT HE THOUGHT HE HAD BEEN SPARED FOR A
  • 00:03:05.170 --> 00:03:07.290
  • HIGHER PURPOSE, AND JOHN PAUL 2 AGREED WITH HIM,
  • 00:03:08.010 --> 00:03:11.200
  • AND THEY KIND OF MIRRORED EACH OTHER'S SENTIMENT
  • 00:03:11.220 --> 00:03:13.250
  • AND FROM THAT POINT FORWARD THEY KNEW, I
  • 00:03:13.270 --> 00:03:16.030
  • WOULD SAY THEY GALVANIZED THEIR MISSION.
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  • THEY WERE ALWAYS PEOPLE FAITH, BUT I THINK IT
  • 00:03:18.020 --> 00:03:20.020
  • GALVANIZED THEIR MISSION.
  • 00:03:20.040 --> 00:03:21.270
  • THEY WERE GOING TO JOIN TOGETHER IN WHATEVER
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  • CAPACITY TO BRING DOWN THE SOVIET UNION.
  • 00:03:23.100 --> 00:03:25.030
  • I HEARD THAT PITCH, AND I THOUGHT NO ONE HAS TOLD
  • 00:03:25.050 --> 00:03:27.050
  • THAT STORY, AND IF IT'S TRUE, IT'S THE GREATEST
  • 00:03:27.070 --> 00:03:29.170
  • STORY OF THE 20TH CENTURY MAYBE SHORT OF WINSTON
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  • CHURCHILL IN WORLD WAR II.
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  • I'D SAY THAT'S THE ONLY MATCH FOR IT.
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  • AND I CALLED THIS FILM OUR D DAY.
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  • - DIVINE PLAN.
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  • IT'S THE STORY OF RONALD REAGAN AND POPE JOHN PAUL 2
  • 00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:40.160
  • KIND OF ALIGNING.
  • 00:03:40.180 --> 00:03:44.000
  • - UH-HUH.
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  • - THERE'S BEEN A FEW BOOKS ON THIS.
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  • IN FACT, YOU AUTHORED A BOOK CALLED THE
  • 00:03:48.180 --> 00:03:50.180
  • DIVINE PLAN.
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  • IT'S AVAILABLE, BUT YOUR CO AUTHOR PAUL KENGOR
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  • WROTE A POPE AND A PRESIDENT.
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  • THERE'S ANOTHER SET OF BOOKS OUT THERE ON THE
  • 00:03:56.200 --> 00:03:58.270
  • SUBJECT ON KIND OF THE END OF THE COLD WAR IS
  • 00:03:58.290 --> 00:04:01.170
  • REALLY KIND OF THE BIG PICTURE STORY OF WHAT
  • 00:04:01.190 --> 00:04:03.110
  • WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT INCLUDES EVEN MARGARET
  • 00:04:03.130 --> 00:04:05.060
  • THATCHER INTO THIS.
  • 00:04:05.080 --> 00:04:07.040
  • - THE POPE, THE PRESIDENT, AND THE
  • 00:04:07.060 --> 00:04:07.290
  • PRIME MINISTER.
  • 00:04:08.010 --> 00:04:09.000
  • - RIGHT.
  • 00:04:09.020 --> 00:04:10.100
  • - JOHN O'SULLIVAN WAS IN THE FILM.
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  • - OKAY.
  • 00:04:11.230 --> 00:04:12.290
  • SO FOR THOSE THAT HAVE NOT THOUGHT ABOUT THIS
  • 00:04:13.010 --> 00:04:17.020
  • SUBJECT FOR A WHILE, WHY DON'T YOU KIND OF LAY
  • 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:19.230
  • THE GROUNDWORK?
  • 00:04:19.250 --> 00:04:21.100
  • LET'S START BACK WITH MAYBE WHERE EVEN BEFORE
  • 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:26.150
  • THESE 2 START, THEY WERE INFLUENCED TO DO
  • 00:04:26.170 --> 00:04:34.000
  • SOMETHING GOOD EVEN FROM THE VERY BEGINNING OF
  • 00:04:34.020 --> 00:04:36.280
  • THEIR CHILDHOODS.
  • 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:38.120
  • WHAT DON'T WE SET THE STAGE FOR JOHN PAUL 2 AND
  • 00:04:38.140 --> 00:04:42.220
  • RONALD REAGAN?
  • 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:44.050
  • - SO IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BACKGROUND OR
  • 00:04:44.070 --> 00:04:46.080
  • ANTECEDENTS TO WHAT ULTIMATELY PREPARED THEM
  • 00:04:46.100 --> 00:04:48.180
  • FOR THEIR MISSION, I DON'T THINK IT WAS
  • 00:04:48.200 --> 00:04:50.200
  • ACTUALLY GOOD THINGS.
  • 00:04:50.220 --> 00:04:52.000
  • I THINK IT WAS ACTUALLY TRAGIC THINGS THEY BOTH
  • 00:04:52.020 --> 00:04:54.060
  • SUFFERED IN DIFFERENT WAYS.
  • 00:04:54.080 --> 00:04:56.150
  • I WOULDN'T COMPARE RONALD REAGAN'S SUFFERING NOT
  • 00:04:56.170 --> 00:04:58.080
  • THAT YOU WANT TO BELITTLE SOMEONE'S SUFFERING, BUT
  • 00:04:58.100 --> 00:05:00.150
  • COMPARED TO JOHN PAUL 2 WHO LOST EVERY IMMEDIATE
  • 00:05:00.170 --> 00:05:03.070
  • PERSON IN HIS FAMILY, LIVED UNDER NAZI RULE AND
  • 00:05:03.090 --> 00:05:06.000
  • THEN IMMEDIATELY AFTER COMMUNIST RULE.
  • 00:05:06.020 --> 00:05:08.010
  • HE JUST SUFFERED THROUGHOUT.
  • 00:05:08.030 --> 00:05:10.030
  • HE DEVELOPED VERY EARLY THE IDEA THE THEOLOGY OF
  • 00:05:10.050 --> 00:05:11.150
  • THE CROSS.
  • 00:05:11.170 --> 00:05:12.150
  • HE COULDN'T AVOID IT.
  • 00:05:12.170 --> 00:05:13.110
  • IT WAS IN HIS FACE.
  • 00:05:13.130 --> 00:05:14.180
  • I THINK RONALD REAGAN SUFFERED BEING IN
  • 00:05:14.200 --> 00:05:16.180
  • THE MIDWEST.
  • 00:05:16.200 --> 00:05:17.180
  • HIS DAD WAS AN ALCOHOLIC.
  • 00:05:17.200 --> 00:05:19.030
  • I THINK HE MOVED 21 TIMES.
  • 00:05:19.050 --> 00:05:20.150
  • HE HAD NO SENSE OF PERMANENCE.
  • 00:05:20.170 --> 00:05:21.260
  • HIS MOM THOUGHT BY BRINGING RONALD TO THE
  • 00:05:21.280 --> 00:05:24.220
  • DISCIPLES OF CHRIST CHURCH AND INTRODUCING
  • 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:27.220
  • HIM TO THE PASTOR AND THE PASTOR'S SON THAT HE
  • 00:05:27.240 --> 00:05:29.280
  • WOULD FIND MALE MENTORS, BUT I THINK THERE WAS AN
  • 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:32.140
  • ISOLATION TO REAGAN ALSO WHERE HE THINK HE
  • 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:34.290
  • SUFFERED FROM THAT.
  • 00:05:35.010 --> 00:05:36.080
  • AND IN THE FILM THERE'S A VERY PERTINENT SCENE
  • 00:05:36.100 --> 00:05:39.060
  • WHERE RONALD REAGAN COMES HOME AND HIS DAD IS DRUNK
  • 00:05:39.080 --> 00:05:40.200
  • AND OUT ON THE FRONT LAWN AND HE'S IN THE SNOW, AND
  • 00:05:40.220 --> 00:05:43.110
  • HIS HAIR IS MATTED TO THE SNOW, AND HE HAS TO
  • 00:05:43.130 --> 00:05:45.270
  • DETERMINE WHETHER HE'S GOING PICK HIM UP AGAIN
  • 00:05:45.290 --> 00:05:47.240
  • OR IS HE GOING TO LEAVE HIM OUT ON THE FRONT
  • 00:05:47.260 --> 00:05:50.000
  • LAWN, AND IN THE FILM WE EXPLORE THE FACT COULD
  • 00:05:50.020 --> 00:05:52.070
  • YOU IMAGINE AT THAT AGE, I THINK HE WAS 11 OR 13,
  • 00:05:52.090 --> 00:05:55.060
  • 11 I THINK, MAKING THE DECISION THAT YOU MIGHT
  • 00:05:55.080 --> 00:05:57.280
  • LEAVE YOUR DAD OUT ON THE FRONT LAWN AND IT WOULD
  • 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:00.100
  • BE A BETTER IDEA TO LEAVE HIM OUT ON THE LAWN?
  • 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:02.150
  • SO BUT THE SUFFERING STARTED THERE, BUT I
  • 00:06:02.170 --> 00:06:04.260
  • THINK THEY PURGED THEIR SUFFERING OR THEY EARNED
  • 00:06:04.280 --> 00:06:08.200
  • THE PERSPECTIVE OR FOUND THE PERSPECTIVE IN THEIR
  • 00:06:08.220 --> 00:06:10.210
  • FAITH BECAUSE THEIR FAITH WAS A WAY OUT OF OR
  • 00:06:10.230 --> 00:06:13.070
  • GETTING A GRASP OF THEIR MISSION, THEIR LIFE,
  • 00:06:13.090 --> 00:06:16.060
  • THEIR IDENTITY, BUT IT WASN'T EASY.
  • 00:06:16.080 --> 00:06:17.270
  • THINK IN THE CASE OF JOHN PAUL 2 IT WAS NEVER EASY,
  • 00:06:17.290 --> 00:06:19.280
  • BUT HE HAD MORE THAN A STEADY INCREMENTAL CLIMB
  • 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:21.250
  • EVEN IN LIGHT OF THE SUFFERING.
  • 00:06:21.270 --> 00:06:24.070
  • I THINK RAYING WANDERED A BIT IN MY OPINION.
  • 00:06:24.090 --> 00:06:26.180
  • A LOT OF MIDWEST EARNERS AT THE TIME ASPIRED TO
  • 00:06:26.200 --> 00:06:29.150
  • THE GLAMOUR OF HOLLYWOOD.
  • 00:06:29.170 --> 00:06:30.220
  • JIMMY STEWART, ALL THOSE PEOPLE WERE NOT --IT
  • 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:32.270
  • WASN'T LIKE A BAD THING BUT THEY WERE POOR.
  • 00:06:32.290 --> 00:06:34.140
  • THEY WERE CHILDREN OF SHOE SALESMEN, AND HE WAS
  • 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:37.030
  • MOVING ALL THE TIME AND IT WAS A GOOD LIFE.
  • 00:06:37.050 --> 00:06:39.170
  • IT WAS A COMMUNITY, BUT IT STILL WAS --SO THE IDEA
  • 00:06:39.190 --> 00:06:42.040
  • OF BEING GLAMOROUS WAS A WAY TO OVERCOME THAT AND
  • 00:06:42.060 --> 00:06:45.050
  • HE STARTED IN RADIO, THEN HE WENT BEYOND THAT, BUT
  • 00:06:45.070 --> 00:06:47.050
  • I THINK WHAT I NOTICED IS CONSISTENT IN BOTH MEN IS
  • 00:06:47.070 --> 00:06:50.200
  • THEY ALWAYS COME BACK TO WELL, THAT DIDN'T WORK.
  • 00:06:50.220 --> 00:06:53.120
  • NOW I GUESS IT'S PART OF GOD'S PLAN.
  • 00:06:53.140 --> 00:06:55.110
  • EVEN JOHN PAUL 2 WAS HIT BY A TRUCK THAT WOULD
  • 00:06:55.130 --> 00:06:57.230
  • HAVE KILLED HIM IF THE GUY -- I THINK IT WAS
  • 00:06:57.250 --> 00:07:00.110
  • ACTUALLY GERMAN DRIVER WHO TOOK HIM UP, PUT HIM
  • 00:07:00.130 --> 00:07:03.070
  • IN THE BACK OF THE TRUCK AND HE NEARLY DIED BEFORE
  • 00:07:03.090 --> 00:07:04.240
  • HE GOT TO THE HOSPITAL LIKE AT SOME POINT, SO
  • 00:07:04.260 --> 00:07:06.140
  • YOU THINK OF THAT OR YOU THINK OF RONALD REAGAN IF
  • 00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:08.230
  • HE'S AN A ACTOR, HE MAY NEVER BE A POLITICIAN.
  • 00:07:08.250 --> 00:07:12.010
  • HE'S A GOOD ACTOR, BUT I MEAN, IF HE WAS THE TOP
  • 00:07:12.030 --> 00:07:14.010
  • JIMMY STEWART LEVEL HE MAY NEVER HAVE BEEN A
  • 00:07:14.030 --> 00:07:16.020
  • POLITICIAN, SO THE MYSTERY OF THAT DIVINE
  • 00:07:16.040 --> 00:07:18.030
  • PLAN, BUT THE CONSISTENCY IS THEY ALWAYS LOOKED TO
  • 00:07:18.050 --> 00:07:20.140
  • GOD IN THEIR FAITH TO MAKE SENSE OF
  • 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:22.040
  • THEIR LIVES.
  • 00:07:22.060 --> 00:07:23.080
  • - DIVINE PLAN, THE DIVINE PLAN.
  • 00:07:23.100 --> 00:07:26.140
  • LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE TRAILER AND KIND OF SET
  • 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:29.030
  • THE STAGE FOR WHAT WE'RE GOING TO UNPACK FOR THE
  • 00:07:29.050 --> 00:07:30.170
  • REST OF THE HOUR.
  • 00:07:30.190 --> 00:07:31.110
  • WATCH THIS.
  • 00:07:31.130 --> 00:07:32.190
  • - YOU AND I HAVE A RENDEZVOUS WITH DESTINY.
  • 00:07:32.210 --> 00:07:35.200
  • [SHOTS FIRED] WE'LL PRESERVE FOR OUR CHILDREN
  • 00:07:35.220 --> 00:07:37.290
  • THIS, THE LAST BEST HOPE OF MAN ON EARTH, OR WE'LL
  • 00:07:38.010 --> 00:07:40.170
  • SENTENCE THEM TO TAKE THE LAST STEP INTO A THOUSAND
  • 00:07:40.190 --> 00:07:42.250
  • YEARS OF DARKNESS.
  • 00:07:42.270 --> 00:07:44.110
  • - POPE JOHN PAUL THE 2 IS A DAGGER AIMED RIGHT
  • 00:07:44.130 --> 00:07:47.120
  • AT THE THROAT OF THE SOVIET UNION.
  • 00:07:47.140 --> 00:07:51.020
  • [SHOTS FIRED] - A DESPERATE TIME.
  • 00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:57.030
  • - OTHER AMERICAN PRESIDENTS TRIED TO
  • 00:07:57.050 --> 00:07:58.200
  • FIGURE OUT HOW TO MANAGE THE COLD WAR.
  • 00:07:58.220 --> 00:08:00.040
  • REAGAN WANTED TO WIN THE COLD WAR.
  • 00:08:00.060 --> 00:08:02.130
  • - A WORLD DIVIDED BY SUPER POWERS.
  • 00:08:02.150 --> 00:08:07.150
  • - RONALD REAGAN: WHEN A GOVERNMENT ABUSES THE
  • 00:08:07.170 --> 00:08:09.290
  • RIGHTS OF ITS OWN PEOPLE, IT IS A GRIM INDICATION
  • 00:08:10.010 --> 00:08:12.180
  • OF ITS WILLINGNESS TO COMMIT VIOLENCE
  • 00:08:12.200 --> 00:08:14.220
  • AGAINST OTHERS.
  • 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:16.170
  • - THE REAL BIG BATTLE OF THE 20TH CENTURY WAS
  • 00:08:16.190 --> 00:08:19.220
  • BETWEEN THE FORCES OF GOOD VERSUS THE FORCES
  • 00:08:19.240 --> 00:08:22.260
  • OF EVIL.
  • 00:08:22.280 --> 00:08:24.070
  • - TWO BOYS RAISED DURING VIOLENT TIMES WHO WOULD
  • 00:08:24.090 --> 00:08:30.030
  • BECOME A PRESIDENT AND A POPE.
  • 00:08:30.050 --> 00:08:36.030
  • - DO NOT BE AFRAID.
  • 00:08:36.050 --> 00:08:38.120
  • DO NOT BE AFRAID.
  • 00:08:38.140 --> 00:08:41.100
  • - IN THEATERS NOVEMBER 6.
  • 00:08:45.240 --> 00:08:49.030
  • IT WILL BE A FATHOM EVENT.
  • 00:08:49.050 --> 00:08:50.230
  • JUST CHECK ALL THE INFORMATION ON THE SCREEN
  • 00:08:50.250 --> 00:08:52.150
  • FOR WHAT IN YOUR AREA AND HOW IN YOUR AREA YOU CAN
  • 00:08:52.170 --> 00:08:56.080
  • GET IT.
  • 00:08:56.100 --> 00:08:57.150
  • SO WE'RE IN NEW YORK CITY.
  • 00:08:57.170 --> 00:08:58.230
  • WELCOME TO NEW YORK.
  • 00:08:58.250 --> 00:09:00.060
  • A LOT OF STORY TELLERS ARE IN NEW YORK.
  • 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:02.170
  • ROBERT ORLANDO, OUR GUEST, AND YOU ARE NOT
  • 00:09:02.190 --> 00:09:06.040
  • ONLY THE AUTHOR OF DIVINE PLAN, BUT WE ARE SHOWING
  • 00:09:06.060 --> 00:09:09.000
  • CLIPS FROM THIS KIND OF STORY OF COMMUNISM.
  • 00:09:09.020 --> 00:09:12.120
  • - SO THIS IS A -- - FALL OF COMMUNISM.
  • 00:09:12.140 --> 00:09:15.250
  • - SO THIS IS A THEO DRAMA, CORRECT?
  • 00:09:15.270 --> 00:09:16.290
  • - YES.
  • 00:09:17.010 --> 00:09:18.000
  • - OKAY.
  • 00:09:18.020 --> 00:09:19.220
  • WOULD YOU JUST IN YOUR ARTICULATE WAY TELL US
  • 00:09:19.240 --> 00:09:20.230
  • WHAT A THEO DRAMA IS?
  • 00:09:20.250 --> 00:09:22.090
  • - SO I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT A THEO DRAMA WAS, BUT
  • 00:09:22.110 --> 00:09:24.050
  • WHEN I INTERVIEWED BISHOP BARRON FOR THIS FILM HE
  • 00:09:24.070 --> 00:09:26.080
  • STARTED SPEAKING IN TERMS OF THEO DRAMA
  • 00:09:26.100 --> 00:09:28.160
  • BECAUSE IN CATHOLIC THEOLOGY THERE'S ACTUALLY
  • 00:09:28.180 --> 00:09:30.260
  • HIS NAME IS BALTHAZAR BUT HE'S A WELL-KNOWN 20TH
  • 00:09:30.280 --> 00:09:33.080
  • CENTURY THEOLOGIAN WHO DID HIS WHOLE STUDY ON
  • 00:09:33.100 --> 00:09:36.100
  • THEO DRAMA BECAUSE HE BELIEVED THAT THERE'S
  • 00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:38.250
  • THREE -- I'M GETTING A LITTLE PHILOSOPHICAL HERE
  • 00:09:38.270 --> 00:09:41.140
  • BUT IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO GET TO THE POINT.
  • 00:09:41.160 --> 00:09:43.030
  • SO IF PHILOSOPHY THEY TEACH THE THREE VIRTUES,
  • 00:09:43.050 --> 00:09:45.250
  • THE CLASSIC VIRTUES OF GOODNESS, TRUTH
  • 00:09:45.270 --> 00:09:47.290
  • AND BEAUTY.
  • 00:09:48.010 --> 00:09:49.080
  • SO DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU BEGIN THAT JOURNEY WILL
  • 00:09:49.100 --> 00:09:51.220
  • DESIGN HOW YOU LOOK AT THE WORLD, BUT HE CHOSE
  • 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:54.060
  • TO BE BEAUTY FIRST, SO THE AESTHETIC, THE IDEA
  • 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:57.250
  • OF DRAMA AS BEING THE ALL-ENCOMPASSING WAY
  • 00:09:57.270 --> 00:09:59.270
  • BECAUSE WE ALL CAN RECOGNIZE BEAUTY.
  • 00:09:59.290 --> 00:10:01.190
  • WE MAY NOT AGREE IN OUR THOUGHTS AS MUCH OR
  • 00:10:01.210 --> 00:10:03.130
  • WHAT'S MORALLY GOOD TO WHAT DEGREE, WHATEVER.
  • 00:10:03.150 --> 00:10:06.040
  • TO HIM HE WAS A COMPOSER AND A CONDUCTOR
  • 00:10:06.060 --> 00:10:09.060
  • AND THINGS.
  • 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:10.270
  • SO LONG STORY SHORT, BY STARTING FROM DRAMA, IT'S
  • 00:10:10.290 --> 00:10:14.000
  • A WAY TO --IT'S STORY.
  • 00:10:14.020 --> 00:10:15.130
  • IT'S STORY FIRST.
  • 00:10:15.150 --> 00:10:16.200
  • SO THE BIBLE STORY, THE WAY YOU TELL YOUR
  • 00:10:16.220 --> 00:10:18.150
  • PERSONAL STORY, A STORY, WHATEVER.
  • 00:10:18.170 --> 00:10:20.040
  • BUT IT HAS IMPLICATIONS THAT GO BEYOND YOUR OWN
  • 00:10:20.060 --> 00:10:23.240
  • EGO, SO THEO DRAMA YOU THINK OF FOR INSTANCE
  • 00:10:23.260 --> 00:10:26.190
  • HAMLET, I THINK OF THE PLAY LIKE HAMLET, THE
  • 00:10:26.210 --> 00:10:30.280
  • CONDITIONS ON THE GROUND OF WHO THE GHOST IS OR
  • 00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:33.120
  • NOT HAS IMPLICATIONS IN THE HEAVENS AND THEY'RE
  • 00:10:33.140 --> 00:10:35.210
  • VERY CLEAR ABOUT WHAT THAT MEANS.
  • 00:10:35.230 --> 00:10:37.130
  • SO I DIDN'T MEAN TO DO THIS BUT I THINK I WAS
  • 00:10:37.150 --> 00:10:39.160
  • DOING THIS IN RETROSPECT.
  • 00:10:39.180 --> 00:10:41.040
  • I WAS TRYING TO SAY LIKE IF YOU IMAGINE, DO YOU
  • 00:10:41.060 --> 00:10:44.120
  • REMEMBER THE OLD 70'S FILMS WHERE THE GREEK
  • 00:10:44.140 --> 00:10:45.250
  • GODS WOULD LIKE LOOK DOWN?
  • 00:10:45.270 --> 00:10:47.220
  • YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING?
  • 00:10:47.240 --> 00:10:49.000
  • SO I IMAGINE THE COMMUNISTS WERE LOOKING
  • 00:10:49.020 --> 00:10:50.270
  • ON ONE SIDE AND GOD WAS ABOVE IT LOOKING DOWN,
  • 00:10:50.290 --> 00:10:52.240
  • AND RONALD REAGAN WAS PUT ON A STAGE LIKE THE
  • 00:10:52.260 --> 00:10:54.280
  • 2 ACTORS TO PERFORM ON THE STAGE.
  • 00:10:55.000 --> 00:10:57.100
  • IN A WAY THEIR ACTIONS REFLECTED THE LARGER,
  • 00:10:57.120 --> 00:11:00.200
  • GEO POLITICAL, DIVINE VERSUS HUMAN, THAT WHOLE MYSTERY
  • 00:11:00.220 --> 00:11:05.080
  • WAS JUST SO INTRIGUING TO ME BECAUSE I DON'T THINK
  • 00:11:05.100 --> 00:11:07.130
  • WE EVER GET AWAY INTEREST THAT.
  • 00:11:07.150 --> 00:11:09.080
  • THAT'S PART OF OUR JOURNEY.
  • 00:11:09.100 --> 00:11:10.060
  • - RIGHT.
  • 00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:11.130
  • - WELL, I THINK ONE THING THAT IS CLEAR IS
  • 00:11:11.150 --> 00:11:16.010
  • THIS SUBJECT MATTER OF REALLY THE FALL OF
  • 00:11:16.030 --> 00:11:19.090
  • COMMUNISM IS REALLY IN OUR LIFETIME, CERTAINLY I
  • 00:11:19.110 --> 00:11:24.080
  • BELIEVE IT'S THE MOST, YOU KNOW, IT'S THE
  • 00:11:24.100 --> 00:11:27.130
  • BIGGEST STORY OF OUR LIFETIME, AND TBN WE HAVE
  • 00:11:27.150 --> 00:11:31.000
  • BEEN DEVELOPING A PROJECT.
  • 00:11:31.020 --> 00:11:33.240
  • WE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO INTERVIEW MIKHAIL
  • 00:11:33.260 --> 00:11:37.150
  • GORBACHEV FOR 2 DAYS.
  • 00:11:37.170 --> 00:11:39.130
  • ALL THAT FOOTAGE IS BEING SORTED AND ORGANIZED NOW,
  • 00:11:39.150 --> 00:11:44.170
  • AND WE INTEND TO EXPLORE KIND OF THE WIDE SHOT
  • 00:11:44.190 --> 00:11:49.140
  • VERSION OF WHAT YOU HAVE DONE WHICH IS AMAZING BY
  • 00:11:49.160 --> 00:11:53.120
  • KIND OF FOCUSING ON THE 2 INDIVIDUALS THAT HAD THE
  • 00:11:53.140 --> 00:11:56.060
  • KEY ROLES, THAT IF IT IS A DIVINE STAGE PLAY, A
  • 00:11:56.080 --> 00:12:01.260
  • THEO DRAMA, THEN THE 2 LEAD ACTORS ARE
  • 00:12:01.280 --> 00:12:04.280
  • CERTAINLY RONALD REAGAN AND POPE JOHN PAUL 2.
  • 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:08.080
  • SO IN THE NEXT CLIP THAT WE'RE GOING TO, IT REALLY
  • 00:12:08.100 --> 00:12:16.130
  • IS, YOU'RE FOCUSING ON THIS NEXT CLIP ON WHAT
  • 00:12:16.150 --> 00:12:20.210
  • RONALD REAGAN AND HOW RONALD REAGAN SAW
  • 00:12:20.230 --> 00:12:23.280
  • POPE JOHN PAUL.
  • 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:26.070
  • - HOW IMPORTANT HE THOUGHT HE WAS.
  • 00:12:26.090 --> 00:12:27.190
  • - AS REALLY KIND OF THE TIP OF THE SPEAR I THINK.
  • 00:12:27.210 --> 00:12:30.090
  • EXPLAIN THAT.
  • 00:12:30.110 --> 00:12:32.020
  • AND WE'LL GO TO THAT CLIP.
  • 00:12:32.040 --> 00:12:33.180
  • - SO I'M A REVERT CATHOLIC AND I SPENT TIME
  • 00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:36.210
  • IN EVANGELICAL CIRCLES AND I WENT TO REFORM
  • 00:12:36.230 --> 00:12:38.230
  • SEMINARY SO I ACTUALLY HAVE THIS UNIQUE
  • 00:12:38.250 --> 00:12:41.090
  • PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE I KNOW WHATEVER WORLD I'M
  • 00:12:41.110 --> 00:12:43.170
  • IN I KIND OF KNOW WHAT THE MASK IS, THE FILTER
  • 00:12:43.190 --> 00:12:45.080
  • YOU'RE PUTTING ON IS, SO I CAN UNDERSTAND HOW A
  • 00:12:45.100 --> 00:12:48.290
  • PRESBYTERIAN EVANGELICAL TYPE LIKE RONALD REAGAN
  • 00:12:49.010 --> 00:12:52.040
  • WOULD LIKE GENERALLY SPEAKING AT THE POPE, BUT
  • 00:12:52.060 --> 00:12:55.060
  • WHEN YOU DIG IN A LITTLE BIT MORE ON JOHN PAUL
  • 00:12:55.080 --> 00:12:57.090
  • THE 2, HE WOULD REFLECT AN EVANGELICAL TYPE SPIRIT
  • 00:12:57.110 --> 00:13:01.030
  • THAT IS UNCOMMON, AND THIS IS A HARD SELL FOR
  • 00:13:01.050 --> 00:13:05.170
  • NON-CATHOLICS IF I'M BEING HONEST WITH YOU,
  • 00:13:05.190 --> 00:13:07.230
  • BUT I DIDN'T KNOW HIM WELL WHEN I WAS A KID.
  • 00:13:07.250 --> 00:13:10.000
  • I GOT TO KNOW HIM THROUGH THE FILM TO BE HONEST
  • 00:13:10.020 --> 00:13:11.130
  • WITH YOU, BUT WHEN I DIG INTO THAT SERIOUS EMBRACE
  • 00:13:11.150 --> 00:13:14.230
  • OF YOUR FAITH AND KNOWLEDGE AND HISTORY AS
  • 00:13:14.250 --> 00:13:18.070
  • A MORAL PHILOSOPHY, BUT THERE'S AN EVANGELICAL
  • 00:13:18.090 --> 00:13:20.030
  • SPIRIT TO HIM THAT ULTIMATELY IN THE CROSS
  • 00:13:20.050 --> 00:13:22.150
  • IS THE OUTREACH TO THE REST OF THE WORLD.
  • 00:13:22.170 --> 00:13:25.240
  • IT'S SOMETHING VERY -- HE'S ALL ABOUT THE
  • 00:13:25.260 --> 00:13:27.090
  • EVANGELIZATION, THE TRANSFORMATION BUT HE
  • 00:13:27.110 --> 00:13:29.210
  • DOES IT SO I THINK MORE SUBTLY.
  • 00:13:29.230 --> 00:13:31.120
  • MAYBE IT'S NOT LIKE POUNDING THE BIBLE, BUT
  • 00:13:31.140 --> 00:13:33.040
  • MORE LIKE MEETING PEOPLE WHERE THEY'RE AT,
  • 00:13:33.060 --> 00:13:35.130
  • OUTREACHING, HEALING THROUGH THE HUMAN SUBJECTIVITY SO
  • 00:13:35.150 --> 00:13:38.130
  • WE CAN MEET AT A CERTAIN LEVEL OF LANGUAGE AND
  • 00:13:38.150 --> 00:13:40.080
  • THEN BUILDING ON THIS, SO IT'S ALL ABOUT THAT
  • 00:13:40.100 --> 00:13:43.040
  • EVANGELICAL OUTREACH TO THE WORLD OF THE
  • 00:13:43.060 --> 00:13:45.060
  • EXPERIENCE THAT CHRIST HAS GIVEN TO HIM AS
  • 00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:47.160
  • AN INDIVIDUAL.
  • 00:13:47.180 --> 00:13:48.240
  • I THINK RAYING HAS SEEN THAT AND HE SAW THE
  • 00:13:48.260 --> 00:13:51.200
  • DECENCY AND THE HONESTY AND THE CHRIST IN HIM.
  • 00:13:51.220 --> 00:13:53.220
  • AS A MATTER OF FACT, THIS IS IN THE BOOKS, RONALD
  • 00:13:53.240 --> 00:13:56.150
  • REAGAN WAS NOT IMPRESSED WITH MANY PEOPLE, AND
  • 00:13:56.170 --> 00:13:59.280
  • WHEN HE GOT TO POLITICS THEY WERE ALL THINKING
  • 00:14:00.020 --> 00:14:01.150
  • YOU NEED TO MEET THE SENATOR.
  • 00:14:01.170 --> 00:14:03.080
  • HE WAS LIKE I DON'T WANT --HE WAS JUST WITH ERROL
  • 00:14:03.100 --> 00:14:05.010
  • FLYNN, BUT WHEN HE MET JOHN PAUL THE 2 IT WAS
  • 00:14:05.030 --> 00:14:08.050
  • THE ONLY TIME THERE WAS PAUSE AND HE WOULD SAY
  • 00:14:08.070 --> 00:14:11.120
  • OKAY, I'M IN THE PRESENCE OF A GREAT MAN.
  • 00:14:11.140 --> 00:14:13.050
  • - WOW.
  • 00:14:13.070 --> 00:14:15.010
  • - THIS IS FROM A DIVINE PLAN.
  • 00:14:15.030 --> 00:14:16.280
  • IT WILL BE IN THEATERS NOVEMBER 6, A
  • 00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:19.180
  • FATHOM EVENT.
  • 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:20.160
  • WATCH THIS.
  • 00:14:20.180 --> 00:14:21.250
  • - MOST IMPORTANT IMPACT THAT THE POPE HAD WHEN HE
  • 00:14:21.270 --> 00:14:24.200
  • FIRST CAME TO POLAND IN 1979 WAS THE FACT THAT
  • 00:14:24.220 --> 00:14:29.110
  • HE BROUGHT SO MANY PEOPLE TOGETHER BECAUSE ONE OF
  • 00:14:29.130 --> 00:14:32.030
  • THE THINGS THAT COMMUNISM DID IS THAT IT
  • 00:14:32.050 --> 00:14:33.200
  • ISOLATED PEOPLE.
  • 00:14:33.220 --> 00:14:34.280
  • - DICTATORSHIPS ALWAYS HAVE TO CREATE IN YOU THE
  • 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:37.140
  • FEAR THAT YOU'RE ALONE.
  • 00:14:37.160 --> 00:14:39.020
  • NO ONE WILL COME TO YOUR ASSISTANCE, BUT THAT
  • 00:14:39.040 --> 00:14:40.210
  • CANNOT BE THE CASE IF YOU HAVE JOHN PAUL 2
  • 00:14:40.230 --> 00:14:44.060
  • ADDRESSING HUGE CROWDS.
  • 00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:47.080
  • - SUDDENLY, THERE WERE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS IF
  • 00:14:47.100 --> 00:14:49.210
  • NOT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE, AND SUDDENLY EVERYBODY
  • 00:14:49.230 --> 00:14:52.000
  • SAW ONE ANOTHER.
  • 00:14:52.020 --> 00:14:53.240
  • - PEOPLE KNOW THAT THEY'RE NOT ALONE.
  • 00:14:53.260 --> 00:14:55.270
  • - THE POPE CAME AND EMBOLDENED THE FREEDOM
  • 00:14:55.290 --> 00:14:58.270
  • FIGHTER BY PREACHING LOVE, HUMAN DIGNITY,
  • 00:14:58.290 --> 00:15:03.140
  • AND STRENGTH.
  • 00:15:03.160 --> 00:15:10.260
  • - A CONTINENT AWAY, ANOTHER MAN TOOK NOTICE.
  • 00:15:11.130 --> 00:15:14.020
  • RONALD REAGAN WATCHED FOOTAGE OF THE
  • 00:15:14.040 --> 00:15:16.150
  • POPE'S VISIT.
  • 00:15:16.170 --> 00:15:17.220
  • WITH HIM WAS FOREIGN POLICY EXPERT RICHARD V.
  • 00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:20.220
  • ALLEN WHO LATER BECAME PRESIDENT REAGAN'S
  • 00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:24.220
  • NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR.
  • 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:26.180
  • - THEY WERE TALKING FOREIGN POLICY ALL DAY AT
  • 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:29.130
  • REAGAN'S HOME IN CALIFORNIA, AND AT ONE
  • 00:15:29.150 --> 00:15:31.260
  • POINT THEY DECIDED TO TURN ON THE EVENING NEWS,
  • 00:15:31.280 --> 00:15:34.160
  • AND THEY SAW FOOTAGE OF JOHN PAUL 2'S VISIT
  • 00:15:34.180 --> 00:15:36.230
  • TO POLAND.
  • 00:15:36.250 --> 00:15:38.020
  • - ALLEN REPORTED THAT REAGAN WAS ASTOUNDED BY
  • 00:15:38.040 --> 00:15:41.020
  • THE CROWD SIZE AND WAS DEEPLY MOVED BY THE
  • 00:15:41.040 --> 00:15:43.210
  • UNEXPECTED OUTPOURING OF EMOTION.
  • 00:15:43.230 --> 00:15:46.150
  • - I SAW A TEAR IN RR'S EYE.
  • 00:15:46.170 --> 00:15:50.150
  • IT WAS A REALLY INTERESTING MOMENT FOR ME.
  • 00:15:50.170 --> 00:15:53.090
  • - REAGAN LEANED FORWARD, PEERED INTO THE TV SCREEN.
  • 00:15:53.110 --> 00:15:58.050
  • - AND HE SAID DICK, THAT'S IT, THAT'S IT,
  • 00:15:58.070 --> 00:16:00.060
  • THAT'S IT.
  • 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:01.160
  • THE POPE IS THE KEY.
  • 00:16:01.180 --> 00:16:02.170
  • THE POPE IS THE KEY.
  • 00:16:02.190 --> 00:16:03.100
  • THE POPE IS THE KEY.
  • 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:04.240
  • - HE IMMEDIATELY WANTED TO REACH OUT TO THE NEW
  • 00:16:04.260 --> 00:16:06.070
  • POPE AND THE VATICAN AND MAKE THEM AN ALLY.
  • 00:16:06.090 --> 00:16:11.080
  • - THE DIVINE PLAN, IT IS GOING TO BE IN A FATHOM
  • 00:16:11.100 --> 00:16:14.280
  • EVENT NOVEMBER 6.
  • 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:16.190
  • ROBERT ORLANDO, NOW, THE POPE IS THE KEY, THE POPE
  • 00:16:16.210 --> 00:16:20.160
  • IS THE KEY.
  • 00:16:20.180 --> 00:16:22.050
  • WIND BACK BEFORE JOHN PAUL IS THE POPE, AND HE
  • 00:16:22.070 --> 00:16:26.220
  • IS POLISH CITIZEN WHO IS BEYOND -- THE SURPRISE OF
  • 00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:34.170
  • THE CENTURY AT THAT TIME WAS THAT HE WAS
  • 00:16:34.190 --> 00:16:37.220
  • SELECTED POPE.
  • 00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:39.040
  • TALK ABOUT THAT FOR A SECOND BECAUSE HE HAD TO
  • 00:16:39.060 --> 00:16:41.220
  • BE PUT ON THAT WORLD STAGE ACCORDING TO THIS
  • 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:43.240
  • DIVINE THEO PLAN.
  • 00:16:43.260 --> 00:16:45.200
  • - SO THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN A LITTLE MORE
  • 00:16:45.220 --> 00:16:48.080
  • FREE WILL IN THAT PART OF IT BECAUSE THE CHURCH
  • 00:16:48.100 --> 00:16:50.080
  • KNEW WHERE THEY WERE GEO POLITICALLY.
  • 00:16:50.100 --> 00:16:53.080
  • SO THIS IS THE BEAUTY OF THE THEO DRAMA.
  • 00:16:53.100 --> 00:16:54.220
  • IT'S LIKE THE VERTICAL.
  • 00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:56.180
  • YOU COULD DO POLITICS, THEOLOGY, AND HISTORY AND
  • 00:16:56.200 --> 00:16:59.180
  • DRAMA ALL IN THE SAME CONVERSATION.
  • 00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:02.020
  • BUT I THINK THEY ELECTED HIM BECAUSE THAT WAS A
  • 00:17:02.040 --> 00:17:04.110
  • VERY STRATEGIC MOVE TO KNOW TO TAKE SOMEONE OUT
  • 00:17:04.130 --> 00:17:06.280
  • OF EASTERN EUROPE, AND I DON'T WANT TO GET A
  • 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:09.120
  • HISTORY LESSON GOING HERE BUT MAYBE WE SHOULD, BUT
  • 00:17:09.140 --> 00:17:11.170
  • IF YOU GO BACK TO THE YALTA AGREEMENT IN WORLD
  • 00:17:11.190 --> 00:17:13.220
  • WAR II AND PATTON BY THE WAY WAS FURIOUS ABOUT
  • 00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:16.140
  • THIS, BUT HE BELIEVED -- GENERAL PATTON WHICH WAS
  • 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:19.050
  • MY FORMER MOVIE, SILENCE PATTON, BUT GENERAL PATTON
  • 00:17:19.070 --> 00:17:22.090
  • WAS FURIOUS THAT WE LEFT AFTER WE SAVED
  • 00:17:22.110 --> 00:17:25.080
  • WESTERN EUROPE AND LEFT EASTERN EUROPE TO THE
  • 00:17:25.100 --> 00:17:27.220
  • SOVIETS BECAUSE HE JUST SAW THEM AS SAVAGES WERE
  • 00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:30.140
  • GOING TO COME IN AND DO WHAT THE NAZIS DID SO
  • 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:32.280
  • BAILING OUT ON EASTERN EUROPE, POLAND WAS THE
  • 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:34.270
  • VICTIM AND THE ABANDONED BY THE WEST, SO THEY HAD
  • 00:17:34.290 --> 00:17:37.200
  • SUFFERED FOR ALL OF THOSE YEARS BEHIND THE IRON
  • 00:17:37.220 --> 00:17:40.090
  • CURTAIN, SO IF YOU WERE LIVING IN HISTORY THROUGH
  • 00:17:40.110 --> 00:17:42.110
  • THAT POINT, ITALIAN OR NOT, YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN
  • 00:17:42.130 --> 00:17:44.250
  • AWARE THAT THE POLE LAND PEOPLE WERE MERGING AND
  • 00:17:44.270 --> 00:17:46.230
  • THE ONLY ORGANIZING INSTITUTION IN POLAND
  • 00:17:46.250 --> 00:17:49.080
  • WAS THE CHURCH.
  • 00:17:49.100 --> 00:17:50.150
  • IT WENT UNDERGROUND DURING THE WARS, SO IT
  • 00:17:50.170 --> 00:17:52.200
  • WAS A STRATEGIC PIECE TO MAKE A PLAY AGAINST THE
  • 00:17:52.220 --> 00:17:55.190
  • SOVIET COMMUNISM.
  • 00:17:55.210 --> 00:17:57.260
  • AND I THINK THE CHURCH CHOSE HIM FOR
  • 00:17:57.280 --> 00:17:59.070
  • THAT REASON.
  • 00:17:59.090 --> 00:18:00.180
  • THERE'S OTHER FORCES IN THE WORLD WE CAN GET INTO
  • 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:01.210
  • ALSO AND THAT IS LIBERATION THEOLOGY IN
  • 00:18:01.230 --> 00:18:04.000
  • THE SOUTH WHICH WAS A MARXIST STRAIN IN
  • 00:18:04.020 --> 00:18:06.080
  • CATHOLICISM WHICH ULTIMATELY BECOMES
  • 00:18:06.100 --> 00:18:08.170
  • REAGAN'S BURDEN WITH NICARAGUA AND ALL THIS,
  • 00:18:08.190 --> 00:18:11.080
  • SO THERE'S A TRIANGULATION IN THE WORLD
  • 00:18:11.100 --> 00:18:13.050
  • RIGHT NOW THAT THE WORLD WAS TRYING TO MERGE OUT
  • 00:18:13.070 --> 00:18:15.040
  • OF COMMUNISM, SOUTH AMERICA'S STILL GOING
  • 00:18:15.060 --> 00:18:17.290
  • STRONG WITH AGGRESSIVE ENCROACHMENTS ON THE
  • 00:18:18.010 --> 00:18:20.000
  • UNITED STATES, SO ONCE THEY GET INVOLVED, THE
  • 00:18:20.020 --> 00:18:22.200
  • CIA GETS INVOLVED AND ALL THIS.
  • 00:18:22.220 --> 00:18:24.260
  • BUT I THINK STRATEGICALLY PICKING A POPE AND JUST
  • 00:18:24.280 --> 00:18:28.070
  • TO MAKE MY POINT TO PUT A REAL BOW ON THIS,
  • 00:18:28.090 --> 00:18:30.100
  • BREZHNEV WAS LIKE WHEN YOU LOOK AT HIS REACTION
  • 00:18:30.120 --> 00:18:32.270
  • A POLISH POPE?
  • 00:18:32.290 --> 00:18:34.160
  • JUST FORGET IT.
  • 00:18:34.180 --> 00:18:35.120
  • NO POLISH HOME.
  • 00:18:35.140 --> 00:18:36.120
  • IT WAS LIKE, WHAT?
  • 00:18:36.140 --> 00:18:37.110
  • OH, HE'S NOT COMING TO POLAND.
  • 00:18:37.130 --> 00:18:38.100
  • NO.
  • 00:18:38.120 --> 00:18:39.100
  • JUST TELL HIM HE CAN'T COME.
  • 00:18:39.120 --> 00:18:40.030
  • MAKE SOMETHING UP.
  • 00:18:40.050 --> 00:18:41.170
  • AND POPE JOHN PAUL IS NO, WE'RE GOING TO POLAND.
  • 00:18:41.190 --> 00:18:43.000
  • WE'RE GOING TO POLAND.
  • 00:18:43.020 --> 00:18:44.120
  • I REMEMBER WHEN THERE WAS THIS ONE INCIDENT WHERE
  • 00:18:44.140 --> 00:18:46.100
  • THEY THREATENED HYMN TO COME, AND HE SAID I'LL
  • 00:18:46.120 --> 00:18:49.000
  • TAKE THE HELICOPTER AND GO BACK TO THE VATICAN,
  • 00:18:49.020 --> 00:18:50.120
  • HAVE A PRESS CONFERENCE AND LET THE WHOLE WORLD
  • 00:18:50.140 --> 00:18:52.040
  • KNOW THAT THE PRIME MINISTER OF THE SOVIET
  • 00:18:52.060 --> 00:18:53.240
  • UNION WOULD NOT LET ME LAND IN POLAND.
  • 00:18:53.260 --> 00:18:55.270
  • SO THERE'S ALL THIS STRATEGIC THINGS GOING ON.
  • 00:18:55.290 --> 00:18:58.160
  • - SO IT IS A BIG DIVINE PLAN, SO YOU NAMED YOUR
  • 00:18:58.180 --> 00:19:02.120
  • BOOK AND YOUR MOVIE BECAUSE GOD WAS REALLY
  • 00:19:02.140 --> 00:19:05.060
  • ORCHESTRATING THE EVENTS OF THAT PERIOD OF TIME.
  • 00:19:05.080 --> 00:19:09.260
  • - I THINK HE'S ORCHESTRATING THE EVENTS
  • 00:19:09.280 --> 00:19:13.220
  • OF ALL TIME.
  • 00:19:13.240 --> 00:19:15.080
  • SO HE HASN'T STOPPED ORCHESTRATING?
  • 00:19:15.100 --> 00:19:16.250
  • OKAY, GOOD. I'M REALLY GLAD ABOUT THAT.
  • 00:19:16.270 --> 00:19:19.210
  • SO YOU, I DON'T THINK YOU DEAL WITH THE SUBJECT,
  • 00:19:19.230 --> 00:19:23.210
  • BUT SOME PEOPLE TAKE THE WHOLE STORY OF THIS
  • 00:19:23.230 --> 00:19:28.060
  • DIVINE PLAN ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE FATIMA
  • 00:19:28.080 --> 00:19:31.220
  • PROPHECIES THAT WOULD HAVE HAD A STRONG EFFECT
  • 00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:35.190
  • ON POPE JOHN PAUL AS A CHILD AND RONALD REAGAN
  • 00:19:35.210 --> 00:19:38.250
  • AS A CHILD.
  • 00:19:38.270 --> 00:19:40.230
  • RONALD REAGAN HAD SOME PRESBYTERIAN KIND OF
  • 00:19:40.250 --> 00:19:44.080
  • INFLUENCE AND CATHOLIC INFLUENCE THROUGH HIS FAMILY.
  • 00:19:44.100 --> 00:19:49.090
  • SO THE UNIQUE THING WAS IT FELT LIKE TO MANY--
  • 00:19:49.110 --> 00:19:54.110
  • AND GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE HUNDREDS OF ARTICLES
  • 00:19:54.130 --> 00:19:57.150
  • WRITTEN IN THAT TIME WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN
  • 00:19:57.170 --> 00:19:59.180
  • ROUGHLY WHEN? 19-- WHAT?
  • 00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:02.220
  • THE FATIMA PROPHECIES. EARLY 19--
  • 00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:06.130
  • - 1920.
  • 00:20:06.150 --> 00:20:08.060
  • - IN THE TEENS I THOUGHT IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN.
  • 00:20:08.080 --> 00:20:11.120
  • SO WHEN THAT HAPPENED, BASICALLY IT FELT LIKE IT
  • 00:20:11.140 --> 00:20:15.240
  • WAS A PROPHECY CONCERNING THE COMING OF THE SYSTEM.
  • 00:20:15.260 --> 00:20:20.070
  • - ACTUALLY, IT WAS BEFORE 1917 BECAUSE
  • 00:20:20.090 --> 00:20:21.290
  • SHE PREDICTED 1917. YOU'RE RIGHT. YOU'RE RIGHT.
  • 00:20:22.010 --> 00:20:23.290
  • - SO BASICALLY IT WOULD HAVE BEEN COMMUNISM WAS
  • 00:20:24.010 --> 00:20:27.130
  • BEING FORETOLD, AND IN TWO YOUNG MEN, THEY WOULD
  • 00:20:27.150 --> 00:20:31.250
  • HAVE THOUGHT GOD WARNED US ABOUT THIS.
  • 00:20:31.270 --> 00:20:36.120
  • IS THERE SOMETHING WE COULD DO TO END IT?
  • 00:20:36.140 --> 00:20:40.090
  • I THINK IT WAS A SEED PLANTED IN YOUNG RONALD
  • 00:20:40.110 --> 00:20:43.090
  • REAGAN AND YOUNG POPE JOHN THE SECOND, THE
  • 00:20:43.110 --> 00:20:46.220
  • CHANCES OF THOSE TWO COMING TO THE-- YOU KNOW
  • 00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:50.040
  • IF YOU TOOK THE, IF YOU TOOK THE WORLD STAGE AT
  • 00:20:50.060 --> 00:20:54.130
  • THAT TIME, BREZHNEV, ULTIMATELY GORBACHEV,
  • 00:20:54.150 --> 00:20:58.170
  • THATCHER, RONALD REAGAN AND THE POPE, AND SO
  • 00:20:58.190 --> 00:21:03.060
  • ULTIMATELY, I MEAN THIS IS FASCINATING TO ME AS I
  • 00:21:03.080 --> 00:21:11.010
  • THINK, WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON A PROJECT SIMILAR TO
  • 00:21:11.030 --> 00:21:14.260
  • THIS FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS.
  • 00:21:14.280 --> 00:21:16.100
  • I'M SO GLAD THAT YOU'VE BROUGHT ATTENTION TO IT.
  • 00:21:16.120 --> 00:21:18.050
  • AND LAURIE ACTUALLY LISTENED TO THE POPE AND
  • 00:21:18.070 --> 00:21:21.280
  • THE PRESIDENT, BUT WE'VE READ SEVERAL OF THE BOOKS
  • 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:25.100
  • CONCERNING THIS AND WE'RE UNDER WAY AND GLAD THAT
  • 00:21:25.120 --> 00:21:29.020
  • YOU'RE BRINGING ATTENTION. OKAY, NEXT CLIP.
  • 00:21:29.040 --> 00:21:31.000
  • - I LOVE THIS. LET THE CHURCH BE THEATER.
  • 00:21:31.020 --> 00:21:35.020
  • - OKAY.
  • 00:21:35.040 --> 00:21:36.130
  • - RIGHT?
  • 00:21:36.150 --> 00:21:37.260
  • - IT NEVER-- IF YOU GO BACK TO, I THINK WE CAN
  • 00:21:37.280 --> 00:21:40.280
  • GET INTO THIS. I WANT TO CIRCLE BACK
  • 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:42.260
  • ONE THING YOU SAID AND GET TO THAT. JUST TO MAKE IT
  • 00:21:42.280 --> 00:21:45.040
  • CLEAR FOR THE AUDIENCE, THERE WERE THREE PROPHECIES.
  • 00:21:45.060 --> 00:21:47.150
  • IT PLAYS INTO THIS MYSTERY OF FREE WILL
  • 00:21:47.170 --> 00:21:49.060
  • VERSUS THE DIVINE PLAN.
  • 00:21:49.080 --> 00:21:51.060
  • ONE WAS THE RISE OF BOLSHEVISM, WHICH WAS 1917.
  • 00:21:51.080 --> 00:21:55.000
  • THEN IT WAS THE RISE OF ATHEISTIC COMMUNISM THAT
  • 00:21:55.020 --> 00:21:57.280
  • WOULD CONSUME THE REST OF THE 20TH CENTURY.
  • 00:21:58.000 --> 00:21:59.240
  • THIS WAS WARNED IN THE THREE CHILDREN OF FATIMA.
  • 00:21:59.260 --> 00:22:02.090
  • AND THE THIRD ONE WAS THAT A BISHOP IN WHITE
  • 00:22:02.110 --> 00:22:04.270
  • WOULD BE KILLED.
  • 00:22:04.290 --> 00:22:07.040
  • BUT ONLY TWO OF THE SECRETS WERE REVEALED
  • 00:22:07.060 --> 00:22:09.160
  • UNTIL JOHN PAUL THE SECOND WAS SHOT.
  • 00:22:09.180 --> 00:22:11.190
  • SO THIS IS AGAIN ONE OF THOSE TWISTS.
  • 00:22:11.210 --> 00:22:13.270
  • SO ULTIMATELY HE WANTED, AFTER HE WAS SHOT, HE
  • 00:22:13.290 --> 00:22:16.060
  • WANTED THAT THIRD SECRET OPENED, AND HE GOT IT OPENED.
  • 00:22:16.080 --> 00:22:19.080
  • HE FOUND OUT THAT'S WHAT IT WAS, SO HE DIDN'T
  • 00:22:19.100 --> 00:22:21.010
  • KNOW, BUT IT WAS A BISHOP IN WHITE.
  • 00:22:21.030 --> 00:22:23.060
  • AND HE USED TO WEAR THE WHITE WITH THE WHITE
  • 00:22:23.080 --> 00:22:24.290
  • YARMULKE, AND IT WAS A KIPPOT IF YOU WILL.
  • 00:22:25.010 --> 00:22:28.040
  • AND HE KNEW THAT BUT HE SAID LATER IT'S
  • 00:22:28.060 --> 00:22:31.100
  • INTERESTING BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH THE PROPHECIES
  • 00:22:31.120 --> 00:22:33.110
  • SAID HE WOULD BE KILLED, HE DID NOT DIE.
  • 00:22:33.130 --> 00:22:37.050
  • SO HE CAME AWAY SAYING THAT EVEN PROPHECY CAN BE
  • 00:22:37.070 --> 00:22:39.280
  • A WARNING SO THAT WE'RE, OUR FREE WILL AND OUR
  • 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:43.000
  • CHOICES ARE STILL INVOLVED IN THE DIVINE
  • 00:22:43.020 --> 00:22:45.160
  • WILL WITH GOD, SO YOU HAVE TO ACT, THE ACTING
  • 00:22:45.180 --> 00:22:48.000
  • PERSON YOU STILL HAVE TO ACT IN THE REAL WORLD.
  • 00:22:48.020 --> 00:22:50.270
  • AND I THOUGHT IT WAS REVEALING BECAUSE IT'S
  • 00:22:50.290 --> 00:22:52.260
  • MORE TOWARD THAT HOLISTIC WAY OF LOOKING AT THINGS.
  • 00:22:52.280 --> 00:22:54.220
  • IT'S NOT TOTALLY GOD, IT'S NOT TOTALLY US, AND
  • 00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:56.200
  • YOU'LL NEVER KNOW WHERE ONE ENDS AND ONE BEGINS,
  • 00:22:56.220 --> 00:22:58.290
  • BUT ULTIMATELY THEY BOTH MOVE TOGETHER.
  • 00:22:59.010 --> 00:23:01.020
  • - I THINK THE ULTIMATE ANSWER TO THAT IS WE SEE
  • 00:23:01.040 --> 00:23:03.250
  • THROUGH A GLASS DARKLY, SO WE DON'T GET TO KNOW
  • 00:23:03.270 --> 00:23:06.260
  • THE EXACT PART WE PLAY IN PRAYER, IN ACTION, IN
  • 00:23:06.280 --> 00:23:14.110
  • FAITH, AND I THINK GOD'S ALWAYS TRYING TO CHEER US
  • 00:23:14.130 --> 00:23:17.280
  • ON TO DO MORE AND MORE, AND ULTIMATELY-- BY THE
  • 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:22.070
  • WAY, ANYBODY THAT CAN GET ANY FILM DONE ON ANY
  • 00:23:22.090 --> 00:23:25.270
  • SUBJECT MATTER, WHETHER IT'S WATCHABLE OR NOT,
  • 00:23:25.290 --> 00:23:28.240
  • I STILL APPLAUD THEM BECAUSE I KNOW HOW
  • 00:23:28.260 --> 00:23:30.110
  • HARD IT IS TO DO IT.
  • 00:23:30.130 --> 00:23:32.000
  • - BEFORE YOU FINISH, I WANT TO GO BACK TO WHAT YOU SAID.
  • 00:23:32.020 --> 00:23:36.170
  • - BUT I'M JUST SAYING THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU'VE DONE.
  • 00:23:36.190 --> 00:23:39.210
  • YOU'RE BRINGING ATTENTION TO ONE OF THE BIGGEST
  • 00:23:39.230 --> 00:23:41.280
  • SUBJECTS IN OUR LIFETIME, SO FROM RIGHT HERE IN NEW
  • 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:45.250
  • YORK-- BY THE WAY, THANK YOU TO ERIC METAXAS.
  • 00:23:45.270 --> 00:23:49.020
  • WE'RE BORROWING HIS SET HERE AT OUR STUDIOS IN
  • 00:23:49.040 --> 00:23:54.070
  • THIS PART OF NEW YORK CITY, SO IF YOU DON'T
  • 00:23:54.090 --> 00:23:57.260
  • KNOW WHAT ERIC METAXAS DOES, LOOK AT THE
  • 00:23:57.280 --> 00:24:01.200
  • INFORMATION ON THE SCREEN AND WATCH HIS TV SHOW.
  • 00:24:01.220 --> 00:24:04.060
  • HE'S NORMALLY SITTING HERE DOING THE INTERVIEWING.
  • 00:24:04.080 --> 00:24:06.190
  • - SO I WAS GONNA SAY TO THE THEATER IS THE
  • 00:24:06.210 --> 00:24:08.020
  • CHURCH, I THINK WE HAVE THIS PURITANICAL LIKE
  • 00:24:08.040 --> 00:24:12.060
  • SKEW OF WHAT, HOW RELIGION AND DRAMA GO
  • 00:24:12.080 --> 00:24:14.200
  • TOGETHER BECAUSE ORIGINALLY IN THE GREEKS
  • 00:24:14.220 --> 00:24:16.180
  • DON'T FORGET THEY PUT ON AN ANNUAL RITUAL EVERY
  • 00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:18.190
  • YEAR. AS PART OF THAT, THEY WOULD DO IT THEATRICALLY
  • 00:24:18.210 --> 00:24:21.080
  • SO THEIR RELIGION AND DRAMA WAS THE SAME.
  • 00:24:21.100 --> 00:24:23.210
  • THEY DIDN'T HAVE THAT SPLIT LIKE NOW YOU'RE DOING
  • 00:24:23.230 --> 00:24:25.130
  • THEATER. IN THE BIBLE THE NEW TESTAMENT ITSELF WHEN
  • 00:24:25.150 --> 00:24:28.130
  • PAUL SAYS COME WITH ME, FOLLOW ME AS I IMITATE
  • 00:24:28.150 --> 00:24:31.060
  • CHRIST, THE WORD IS MIMETES WHICH IS THE SAME
  • 00:24:31.080 --> 00:24:33.170
  • WORD USED AS PLAYING A ROLE OR BEING A
  • 00:24:33.190 --> 00:24:35.110
  • CHARACTER IN A PLAY.
  • 00:24:35.130 --> 00:24:36.220
  • IF YOU WANT TO DIG A LITTLE MORE INTO THE
  • 00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:38.160
  • GRAIN HERE, THE WORD FOR A LEATHER MAKER AND BEING
  • 00:24:38.180 --> 00:24:41.270
  • A TENT MAKER FOR PAUL ALSO COULD HAVE BEEN
  • 00:24:41.290 --> 00:24:43.190
  • SOMEONE WHO DOES THEATER, WHO BUILDS THE PROPS AND
  • 00:24:43.210 --> 00:24:46.020
  • DOES THINGS IN THEATER BEHIND THE SCENES.
  • 00:24:46.040 --> 00:24:48.120
  • I'M NOT SAYING WE COULD PROVE THAT, BUT IT'S
  • 00:24:48.140 --> 00:24:50.080
  • OPEN TO INTERPRETATION.
  • 00:24:50.100 --> 00:24:52.030
  • SO THE IDEA THAT THEY WERE AWARE THAT YOU PERFORM A
  • 00:24:52.050 --> 00:24:54.160
  • ROLE, AND I ALWAYS GET BACK TO THE CROSS.
  • 00:24:54.180 --> 00:24:56.120
  • THE CROSS IS NOT A THOUGHT. IT'S AN ACT.
  • 00:24:56.140 --> 00:24:59.040
  • IT'S LIKE DO YOU WANT TO SEE HOW THIS LOOKS?
  • 00:24:59.060 --> 00:25:01.130
  • YOU ACT OUT LOVE, YOU ACT OUT REDEMPTION, AND I
  • 00:25:01.150 --> 00:25:04.020
  • THINK THAT'S THE CONCEPTS THEY'RE COMING FROM.
  • 00:25:04.040 --> 00:25:06.100
  • - SO NOW YOU'VE PLANTED A PICTURE IN MY MIND OF
  • 00:25:06.120 --> 00:25:09.200
  • THE APOSTLE PAUL WITH SOCKS ON HANDS DOING
  • 00:25:09.220 --> 00:25:12.170
  • VOICES AND ALL SORTS OF STUFF.
  • 00:25:12.190 --> 00:25:15.080
  • - HE'S PRETTY GOOD.
  • 00:25:15.100 --> 00:25:16.210
  • HE'S PRETTY GOOD AT RHETORIC. I DON'T KNOW.
  • 00:25:16.230 --> 00:25:18.060
  • - I'VE GOT TO GET THAT OUT OF MY MIND NOW.
  • 00:25:18.080 --> 00:25:20.170
  • - TIMOTHY, HELP ME WITH THIS!
  • 00:25:20.190 --> 00:25:24.110
  • - SAND BAGS!
  • 00:25:24.130 --> 00:25:25.230
  • [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:25:25.250 --> 00:25:27.090
  • - THAT'S GOOD. THAT'S GOOD.
  • 00:25:27.110 --> 00:25:28.290
  • - DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING ELSE OR DO YOU
  • 00:25:29.010 --> 00:25:30.080
  • WANT TO GO TO A CLIP?
  • 00:25:30.100 --> 00:25:31.180
  • - NO, I LIKE THAT BECAUSE OF YOU MAKING
  • 00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:33.240
  • MOVIES AND US BEING FROM THE FILM INDUSTRY, YOU KNOW.
  • 00:25:33.260 --> 00:25:38.180
  • - THERE'S NO SEPARATION.
  • 00:25:38.200 --> 00:25:39.270
  • - NO, THERE'S NOT.
  • 00:25:39.290 --> 00:25:41.080
  • AND I LOVE IT BECAUSE I THINK EVERY GENERATION
  • 00:25:41.100 --> 00:25:44.170
  • THINKS IT'S A NEW IDEA, SO EVERY GENERATION THEY
  • 00:25:44.190 --> 00:25:48.030
  • GET THIS BRIGHT IDEA AND "HEY, LET'S MAKE CHURCH A
  • 00:25:48.050 --> 00:25:51.050
  • THEATER OR THEATERS A CHURCH" AND IT'S BEEN
  • 00:25:51.070 --> 00:25:54.080
  • GOING ON FOR A LONG TIME.
  • 00:25:54.100 --> 00:25:55.250
  • - JESUS TOLD A FEW STORIES SO.
  • 00:25:55.270 --> 00:25:58.150
  • - I HEARD. I HEARD. [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:25:58.170 --> 00:26:00.150
  • - OKAY, DIVINE CLIP NUMBER TWO.
  • 00:26:00.170 --> 00:26:02.130
  • I'LL GIVE YOU A CHANCE TO SET IT UP.
  • 00:26:02.150 --> 00:26:04.170
  • POPE JOHN THE SECOND WAS AN ESTABLISHED POLISH ACTOR
  • 00:26:04.190 --> 00:26:07.250
  • SINCE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ALL THIS
  • 00:26:07.270 --> 00:26:09.180
  • BEFORE ATTENDING SEMINARY.
  • 00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:11.250
  • TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HIS, WHY THAT'S
  • 00:26:11.270 --> 00:26:13.290
  • IMPORTANT TO THE STORY.
  • 00:26:14.010 --> 00:26:15.150
  • - I CAN'T, ONE QUICK STEP BACK, I CAN'T THANK
  • 00:26:15.170 --> 00:26:18.020
  • PAUL KENGOR ENOUGH FOR HIS BOOK, A POPE
  • 00:26:18.040 --> 00:26:20.050
  • AND A PRESIDENT.
  • 00:26:20.080 --> 00:26:21.270
  • THIS GETS A LITTLE WEIRD, BUT CARL BERNSTEIN ALSO
  • 00:26:21.290 --> 00:26:24.230
  • WROTE A BOOK CALLED HIS HOLINESS THAT WAS
  • 00:26:24.250 --> 00:26:26.200
  • THE EXACT SAME STORY.
  • 00:26:26.220 --> 00:26:28.050
  • THEY DIDN'T WRITE IT EXACTLY THE SAME, AND HE ALSO
  • 00:26:28.070 --> 00:26:30.030
  • WROTE THE BREAKTHROUGH ARTICLE WHICH WAS HOLY
  • 00:26:30.050 --> 00:26:31.290
  • ALLIANCE IN 1992 FOR TIME MAGAZINE.
  • 00:26:32.010 --> 00:26:34.240
  • AND HE JUST TRIED TO TELL HIS FRIENDS ON THE LEFT
  • 00:26:34.260 --> 00:26:36.190
  • LIKE YOU GUYS ARE NOT GETTING IT.
  • 00:26:36.210 --> 00:26:38.010
  • THESE GUYS ACTUALLY BELIEVE THIS.
  • 00:26:38.030 --> 00:26:39.220
  • THIS IS THEIR FAITH. OH, COME ON, YOU KNOW.
  • 00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:41.180
  • NO, NO, THEY PRAY. THE POPE IS A MYSTIC.
  • 00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:44.000
  • HE ACTUALLY BELIEVES AND THEY JUST COMPLETELY PAN
  • 00:26:44.020 --> 00:26:46.180
  • THE IDEA THAT HE HAD ANY--
  • 00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:48.240
  • SO I'M THINKING TO MYSELF IF YOU HAVE CARL
  • 00:26:48.260 --> 00:26:50.080
  • BERNSTEIN OF WATERGATE FAME AND PAUL KENGOR,
  • 00:26:50.100 --> 00:26:52.090
  • A WELL-KNOWN RESPECTED CONSERVATIVE TRYING TO
  • 00:26:52.110 --> 00:26:54.270
  • TELL YOU THE SAME STORY, I THINK IT'S TIME.
  • 00:26:54.290 --> 00:26:56.260
  • YOU NEED A FILM MAKER TO COME PAY ATTENTION
  • 00:26:56.280 --> 00:26:58.170
  • AND GET IN THERE.
  • 00:26:58.190 --> 00:27:00.070
  • SO PAUL WOULD SAY THAT THE MAIN FRESH NEW
  • 00:27:00.090 --> 00:27:03.250
  • PERSPECTIVE KNOWING ALL THIS RESEARCH AND
  • 00:27:03.270 --> 00:27:05.180
  • BACKGROUND WORK WOULD BE THAT I APPROACHED IT
  • 00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:08.110
  • THROUGH THE LENS OF THEM BEING ACTORS, AND THAT BY
  • 00:27:08.130 --> 00:27:11.120
  • APPROACHING IT THAT WAY IT WAS A FRESH NEW LOOK.
  • 00:27:11.140 --> 00:27:13.160
  • IF ANYONE, AND I GUESS YOU GUYS KNOW FROM TV IS
  • 00:27:13.180 --> 00:27:17.000
  • THAT IF YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO MAKE FILM, AND
  • 00:27:17.020 --> 00:27:19.200
  • YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS FOR SOMEONE TO DO 80 FILMS,
  • 00:27:19.220 --> 00:27:22.050
  • MEMORIZE THEIR LINES, SCRIPT THEIR LINES,
  • 00:27:22.070 --> 00:27:24.190
  • HIT THEIR MARKS, DO IT OVER AND OVER.
  • 00:27:24.210 --> 00:27:27.110
  • IT'S NOT A TECHNIQUE, IT'S NOT BEING PHONY, IT
  • 00:27:27.130 --> 00:27:30.070
  • ACTUALLY BECOMES A PART OF YOUR PERSONALITY.
  • 00:27:30.090 --> 00:27:33.000
  • YOU CAN'T TAKE THAT OUT OF THE EQUATION.
  • 00:27:33.020 --> 00:27:35.010
  • I WAS JUST TRYING TO SAY YOU CANNOT TAKE OUT OF
  • 00:27:35.030 --> 00:27:37.030
  • THE EQUATION THAT THESE ARE ACTORS BEFORE THEY
  • 00:27:37.050 --> 00:27:38.250
  • DID SOMETHING. THERE'S NO SEPARATING IT.
  • 00:27:38.270 --> 00:27:40.240
  • I'LL SPEND THE WHOLE HOUR IF YOU WANT TO TRYING TO
  • 00:27:40.260 --> 00:27:43.020
  • MAKE THAT CASE SO I CAN REDEEM OUR CAREERS.
  • 00:27:43.040 --> 00:27:44.260
  • NO, I'M JOKING.
  • 00:27:44.280 --> 00:27:46.170
  • - OKAY, THIS IS DIVINE, THE DIVINE PLAN CLIP NUMBER,
  • 00:27:46.190 --> 00:27:50.290
  • I THINK THREE. GO AHEAD.
  • 00:27:51.010 --> 00:27:53.200
  • - NARRATOR: WOJTYLA ALREADY HAD ESTABLISHED
  • 00:27:53.220 --> 00:27:55.160
  • HIMSELF AS A WELL-RESPECTED ACTOR/PLAYWRIGHT.
  • 00:27:55.180 --> 00:27:58.210
  • HE ACTED IN PLAYS WITH THEMES OF POLISH PRIDE
  • 00:27:58.230 --> 00:28:01.050
  • TO DEFY THE AUTHORITIES.
  • 00:28:01.070 --> 00:28:03.200
  • - HE AND A FEW FRIENDS FORMED THIS FAMOUS RHAPSODIC
  • 00:28:03.220 --> 00:28:06.130
  • THEATER WHERE THEY BEHIND SHUTTERED WINDOWS AND
  • 00:28:06.150 --> 00:28:10.090
  • LOCKED DOORS THEY RECITED THE GREAT POETRY AND
  • 00:28:10.110 --> 00:28:13.180
  • DRAMA OF POLISH LITERATURE.
  • 00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:16.290
  • - UNDERGROUND THEATER HELPED HIM TO GO
  • 00:28:17.010 --> 00:28:20.020
  • THROUGH THE MOST IMPORTANT WORDS AND
  • 00:28:20.040 --> 00:28:22.070
  • PROBLEMS AND EXPERIENCES TO REACH PEOPLE THROUGH
  • 00:28:22.090 --> 00:28:25.190
  • THEIR HEARTS AND CONFRONT THE EVIL.
  • 00:28:25.210 --> 00:28:30.030
  • - NARRATOR: IT WAS NOT UNTIL 1941 THAT HE WOULD ENTER
  • 00:28:30.050 --> 00:28:34.080
  • THE SEMINARY, A SECRET UNDERGROUND SEMINARY.
  • 00:28:34.100 --> 00:28:38.270
  • - HE'S COMING OF AGE AT ONE OF THE WORST MOMENTS
  • 00:28:38.290 --> 00:28:40.260
  • IN THE 20TH CENTURY.
  • 00:28:40.280 --> 00:28:43.060
  • - MATT CROUCH: DIVINE PLAN IS IN THEATERS NOVEMBER 6.
  • 00:28:43.080 --> 00:28:47.250
  • ALL THE INFORMATION IS ON THE SCREEN.
  • 00:28:47.270 --> 00:28:50.050
  • WE WANT YOU TO SEE THIS.
  • 00:28:50.070 --> 00:28:52.270
  • AND WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT IT IS WE AT TBN
  • 00:28:52.290 --> 00:28:55.280
  • HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
  • 00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:57.210
  • WE'RE NOT AN INVESTOR. WE MET TODAY.
  • 00:28:57.230 --> 00:29:00.120
  • I JUST THINK THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT
  • 00:29:00.140 --> 00:29:03.030
  • SUBJECT MATTERS, AND THANK YOU FOR TAKING IT ON.
  • 00:29:03.050 --> 00:29:06.030
  • WHY DON'T WE, WE'RE ABOUT HALFWAY THROUGH,
  • 00:29:06.050 --> 00:29:09.090
  • WHY DON'T WE RE-SET JUST FOR A SECOND.
  • 00:29:09.110 --> 00:29:11.220
  • IF SOMEBODY JUST TUNED IN, THEY'RE SEEING DIVINE
  • 00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:15.080
  • PLAN. WE BELIEVE IN DIVINE PLANS.
  • 00:29:15.100 --> 00:29:18.280
  • WE BELIEVE THAT WE'RE SITTING HERE TODAY
  • 00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:22.040
  • BECAUSE OF A DIVINE PLAN THAT GOD STARTED IN MY
  • 00:29:22.060 --> 00:29:25.160
  • PARENTS' GENERATION.
  • 00:29:25.180 --> 00:29:27.210
  • THE LORD SPOKE TO MY PARENTS TO BUY A TV STATION.
  • 00:29:27.230 --> 00:29:31.010
  • MY DAD HEARD A VOICE FROM THE LORD.
  • 00:29:31.030 --> 00:29:35.070
  • I DON'T THINK IT WAS OUT LOUD.
  • 00:29:35.090 --> 00:29:36.220
  • HE DOESN'T THINK IT WAS OUT LOUD, JUST SOMETHING
  • 00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:38.290
  • TO CALL A PARTICULAR GENTLEMAN NAMED ANGEL LERMA.
  • 00:29:39.010 --> 00:29:43.120
  • RIGHT THEN ANGEL LERMA PICKED UP THE PHONE AND
  • 00:29:43.140 --> 00:29:47.150
  • SAID PAUL, I JUST GOT DONE OUT OF A BOARD
  • 00:29:47.170 --> 00:29:49.190
  • MEETING JUST NOW, I JUST WALKED DOWN THE HALL AND
  • 00:29:49.210 --> 00:29:51.260
  • WE VOTED TO SELL THE STATION.
  • 00:29:51.280 --> 00:29:53.130
  • DID YOU KNOW THAT?
  • 00:29:53.150 --> 00:29:55.000
  • AND MY DAD SAID NO BUT I'D LIKE TO COME SEE YOU.
  • 00:29:55.020 --> 00:29:57.080
  • THEY STRUCK A DEAL.
  • 00:29:57.100 --> 00:29:59.030
  • THAT WAS OUR TV STATION NUMBER ONE IN LOS ANGELES,
  • 00:29:59.050 --> 00:30:02.030
  • CALIFORNIA. A DIVINE PLAN.
  • 00:30:02.050 --> 00:30:04.150
  • MY PARENTS LOOKED INTO THESE CAMERAS, THEY
  • 00:30:04.170 --> 00:30:07.220
  • TALKED TO A TELEVISION AUDIENCE WONDERING IF
  • 00:30:07.240 --> 00:30:10.210
  • THERE WAS ACTUALLY EVER ANYBODY OUT THERE OR NOT.
  • 00:30:10.230 --> 00:30:13.230
  • HI, YOU DON'T KNOW ME, I'M PAUL CROUCH.
  • 00:30:13.250 --> 00:30:16.020
  • WE WOULD LIKE TO BUY THIS TV CHANNEL. HELP US.
  • 00:30:16.040 --> 00:30:19.280
  • AND SO THAT WAS 45 YEARS AGO.
  • 00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:22.280
  • A DIVINE PLAN NOW HAS US CONNECTED TO 31 DIFFERENT
  • 00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:27.110
  • TELEVISION NETWORKS, 16 DIFFERENT LANGUAGE NETWORKS.
  • 00:30:27.130 --> 00:30:30.090
  • WE HAVE CONTENT PLAYING IN POLAND NOW 24 HOURS A
  • 00:30:30.110 --> 00:30:36.060
  • DAY, CONNECTED TO 85 PERCENT OF THE COUNTRY
  • 00:30:36.080 --> 00:30:39.230
  • THERE IN THE HOMES.
  • 00:30:39.250 --> 00:30:41.150
  • SO LOOK, ALL OVER THE WORLD WE BELIEVE IN
  • 00:30:41.170 --> 00:30:44.200
  • DIVINE PLANS. THIS WAS A BIG ONE, OKAY?
  • 00:30:44.220 --> 00:30:48.110
  • SO THIS WAS ON THE POLITICAL KIND OF STAGE
  • 00:30:48.130 --> 00:30:53.240
  • WITH SOME OF THE BIGGEST PLAYERS.
  • 00:30:53.260 --> 00:30:55.090
  • THE NAMES OF THAT ERA, RONALD REAGAN, POPE JOHN
  • 00:30:55.110 --> 00:30:58.140
  • PAUL, MARGARET THATCHER, BREZHNEV, GORBACHEV.
  • 00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:03.040
  • INTERESTING PERIOD OF TIME WHEN BREZHNEV PASSED.
  • 00:31:03.060 --> 00:31:11.140
  • WAS IT BREZHNEV THAT PASSED AND THEN TWO
  • 00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:13.290
  • GENERAL SECRETARIES CAME IN WITHIN A
  • 00:31:14.010 --> 00:31:16.040
  • SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.
  • 00:31:16.060 --> 00:31:17.210
  • - THREE OF THEM DIED OFF, AND EVEN REAGAN SAID
  • 00:31:17.230 --> 00:31:19.150
  • I WANT TO MEET WITH THEM, THEY JUST KEEP DYING ON ME.
  • 00:31:19.170 --> 00:31:22.010
  • - AND ALONG CAME THEN A VERY YOUNG MIKHAIL
  • 00:31:22.030 --> 00:31:25.100
  • GORBACHEV, WHICH BY THE WAY, AND WHY DON'T WE
  • 00:31:25.120 --> 00:31:29.280
  • JUST DO IT RIGHT NOW.
  • 00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:31.180
  • I WANT TO GO TO A LITTLE CLIP.
  • 00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:33.000
  • LAURIE AND I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY ALONG WITH
  • 00:31:33.020 --> 00:31:36.050
  • TOM NEWMAN AND OUR KIDS, WE WENT INTO MOSCOW,
  • 00:31:36.070 --> 00:31:39.230
  • INTO GORBACHEV'S, FORMER SECRETARY GORBACHEV'S
  • 00:31:39.250 --> 00:31:44.020
  • OFFICE, AND FOR TWO DAYS WE INTERVIEWED HIM ON
  • 00:31:44.040 --> 00:31:47.110
  • THE SUBJECT OF THE FALL OF COMMUNISM.
  • 00:31:47.130 --> 00:31:50.090
  • AND I ASKED A PARTICULAR QUESTION AND GOT A DA,
  • 00:31:50.110 --> 00:31:55.040
  • YES, FINALLY.
  • 00:31:55.060 --> 00:31:58.190
  • IT WAS THE SECOND DAY LATE IN THE DAY OF THE
  • 00:31:58.210 --> 00:32:01.000
  • SECOND DAY, VERY INTERESTING THING THAT
  • 00:32:01.020 --> 00:32:03.120
  • MIKHAIL GORBACHEV SAID. WATCH THIS.
  • 00:32:03.140 --> 00:32:06.210
  • - MATT CROUCH: AROUND YOUR WIFE'S NECK IS A
  • 00:32:06.230 --> 00:32:09.210
  • CROSS, AND IN THE OTHER ROOM THERE WAS A BIBLE.
  • 00:32:09.230 --> 00:32:12.220
  • I DIDN'T EXPECT TO SEE THAT WHEN I CAME HERE.
  • 00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:16.120
  • - ON MY MOTHER'S SIDE, MY GRANDFATHER PANTELEYEVNA,
  • 00:32:16.140 --> 00:32:20.290
  • WAS A VETERAN COMMUNIST.
  • 00:32:21.010 --> 00:32:24.040
  • AND COMMUNISTS, IF THEY HAD A RELIGION,
  • 00:32:24.060 --> 00:32:28.110
  • COMMUNISTS WERE EXPELLED FROM THE PARTY.
  • 00:32:28.130 --> 00:32:32.030
  • BUT EVEN MORE INTERESTING IS THAT HIS WIFE,
  • 00:32:32.050 --> 00:32:34.260
  • MY GRANDMOTHER, WAS ALSO A PERSON OF FAITH.
  • 00:32:34.280 --> 00:32:38.270
  • IN THEIR HOUSE, THERE WAS A SPECIAL TABLE IN THEIR
  • 00:32:38.290 --> 00:32:43.110
  • ROOM WITH PORTRAITS OF MARX AND ENGELS, LENIN
  • 00:32:43.130 --> 00:32:49.190
  • AND STALIN, AND THE CHRISTIAN ICONS
  • 00:32:49.210 --> 00:32:52.150
  • ON THE SAME TABLE.
  • 00:32:52.170 --> 00:32:53.270
  • I SAW ALL THAT, AND THIS IMPRESSED ME VERY MUCH.
  • 00:32:53.290 --> 00:32:57.290
  • WHEN I BECAME THE GENERAL SECRETARY, WHICH WAS THE
  • 00:32:58.010 --> 00:33:01.140
  • TOP LEADER IN THE SOVIET UNION, I TOOK THE
  • 00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:04.230
  • INITIATIVE TO ORGANIZE A MEETING WITH THE LEADERS
  • 00:33:04.250 --> 00:33:08.060
  • OF THE RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH, WITH THE MOST
  • 00:33:08.080 --> 00:33:11.030
  • IMPORTANT PEOPLE IN THE CHURCH.
  • 00:33:11.050 --> 00:33:14.130
  • AND WE AGREED THAT THERE SHOULD BE A LAW ADOPTED
  • 00:33:14.150 --> 00:33:17.150
  • THAT PROTECTS THE RIGHTS OF PEOPLE OF FAITH.
  • 00:33:17.170 --> 00:33:20.250
  • - MATT CROUCH: MR. GORBACHEV, YOUR ACTIONS AS GENERAL
  • 00:33:20.270 --> 00:33:23.080
  • SECRETARY OF THE SOVIET UNION AT THE TIME WOULD
  • 00:33:23.100 --> 00:33:25.290
  • SUGGEST VERY CLEARLY THAT YOU BELIEVE IN GOD.
  • 00:33:26.010 --> 00:33:29.080
  • DO YOU?
  • 00:33:29.100 --> 00:33:30.250
  • - YES. YES.
  • 00:33:30.270 --> 00:33:34.010
  • - WOW.
  • 00:33:42.270 --> 00:33:44.110
  • - OKAY, GORBACHEV, BREZHNEV, THE SECRETARIES
  • 00:33:44.130 --> 00:33:50.010
  • THAT WERE PASSING AWAY VERY QUICKLY, THEIR NAMES WERE...
  • 00:33:50.030 --> 00:33:53.240
  • [OFF CAMERA] ANDROPOV AND CHERNENKO.
  • 00:33:53.260 --> 00:33:55.200
  • - ANDROPOV AND CHERNENKO, BY THE WAY OF EXPERT HERE
  • 00:33:55.220 --> 00:33:59.110
  • STANDING IN OUR STUDIO AUDIENCE NAMED BOB FOPMA.
  • 00:33:59.130 --> 00:34:01.180
  • THANK YOU, BOB.
  • 00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:02.260
  • - THANK GOODNESS.
  • 00:34:02.280 --> 00:34:04.030
  • - SERIOUSLY.
  • 00:34:04.050 --> 00:34:05.100
  • HE SHOULD BE DOING THIS INTERVIEW, NOT ME.
  • 00:34:05.120 --> 00:34:07.200
  • [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:34:07.220 --> 00:34:09.290
  • SO HE SITS BACK AND-- I NEED ONE OF THOSE THINGS
  • 00:34:10.010 --> 00:34:12.290
  • IN MY EAR BOB THAT LET'S ME KNOW.
  • 00:34:13.010 --> 00:34:16.160
  • ANDROPOV. CHERNENKO.
  • 00:34:16.180 --> 00:34:22.160
  • YES, OKAY.
  • 00:34:22.180 --> 00:34:23.250
  • SO BASICALLY, DO A BIT OF A RE-SET FOR SOMEONE
  • 00:34:23.270 --> 00:34:28.020
  • THAT JUST TUNED IN.
  • 00:34:28.040 --> 00:34:29.280
  • WHAT ARE WE REALLY TALKING ABOUT IN
  • 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:31.120
  • THIS DIVINE PLAN?
  • 00:34:31.140 --> 00:34:33.080
  • - WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE MISSION, THE COMMON
  • 00:34:33.100 --> 00:34:35.040
  • MISSION BETWEEN RONALD REAGAN AND JOHN PAUL
  • 00:34:35.060 --> 00:34:37.230
  • THE SECOND SHORTLY AFTER THEIR NEAR ASSASSINATION
  • 00:34:37.250 --> 00:34:40.120
  • ATTEMPTS WITHIN SIX WEEKS OF EACH OTHER COMING
  • 00:34:40.140 --> 00:34:43.000
  • TOGETHER AND DECIDING THAT AT THE END OF THEIR
  • 00:34:43.020 --> 00:34:45.040
  • LIFE, THEY HAD NOTHING ELSE TO EARN AS
  • 00:34:45.060 --> 00:34:47.020
  • ONE COMMENTATOR SAYS.
  • 00:34:47.040 --> 00:34:48.100
  • THEY WERE AT THE HIGHEST POSITIONS THEY COULD BE
  • 00:34:48.120 --> 00:34:50.050
  • AT, SO THERE WERE NO BATTLES TO FIGHT ANYMORE
  • 00:34:50.070 --> 00:34:51.270
  • ON THE EARTHLY SIDE, SO THE DOORS WERE WIDE OPEN
  • 00:34:51.290 --> 00:34:55.030
  • NOW TO GO FOR THE MISSION ALL OUT WHICH TO THEM
  • 00:34:55.050 --> 00:34:57.260
  • SEEMED LIKE THE DIVINE PLAN.
  • 00:34:57.280 --> 00:34:59.140
  • IF IT'S GOVERNOR REAGAN, HE HAS TO BECOME PRESIDENT
  • 00:34:59.160 --> 00:35:03.020
  • FIRST. HE HAS TO DEAL WITH BEING PRESIDENT.
  • 00:35:03.040 --> 00:35:05.010
  • SO IT'S ABOUT THAT COMMON MISSION AND THEN HOW THE
  • 00:35:05.030 --> 00:35:07.160
  • SUPPORT OF POLISH SOLIDARITY BECAME THE
  • 00:35:07.180 --> 00:35:11.090
  • LYNCHPIN TO BRING DOWN, IT WAS THE WEAK LINK IN
  • 00:35:11.110 --> 00:35:13.260
  • THE WHOLE SITUATION TO BRING DOWN THE SOVIET
  • 00:35:13.280 --> 00:35:15.290
  • UNION AND CIA SUPPORT AND RECOGNIZING THE VATICAN
  • 00:35:16.010 --> 00:35:19.120
  • AND THE STEPS THEY TOOK IN FUNDING TO SLOWLY
  • 00:35:19.140 --> 00:35:22.120
  • BUT SURELY AS JOHN PAUL THE SECOND SAYS
  • 00:35:22.140 --> 00:35:24.180
  • "WE DIDN'T DEFEAT COMMUNISM, IT WAS A ROTTEN TREE
  • 00:35:24.200 --> 00:35:27.200
  • THAT JUST NEEDED TO BE PUSHED OVER."
  • 00:35:27.220 --> 00:35:29.220
  • - MY GOODNESS.
  • 00:35:29.240 --> 00:35:31.020
  • - I LOVE WHEN PRESIDENT REAGAN DID GET SHOT.
  • 00:35:31.040 --> 00:35:34.060
  • WHEN YOU SURVIVE SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AN
  • 00:35:34.080 --> 00:35:36.050
  • ASSASSINATION ON YOUR LIFE, LIFE BECOMES SUPER
  • 00:35:36.070 --> 00:35:39.170
  • SERIOUS, I'M SURE IF YOU SURVIVE IT, AND THEN I AM
  • 00:35:39.190 --> 00:35:43.000
  • HERE FOR A PURPOSE, FOR A MISSION, AND WHAT IS THAT
  • 00:35:43.020 --> 00:35:46.030
  • THAT I WILL DIE FOR?
  • 00:35:46.050 --> 00:35:48.030
  • AND I BELIEVE BOTH OF THEM WOULD HAVE DIED FOR THAT.
  • 00:35:48.050 --> 00:35:51.010
  • - I ALWAYS SAY THIS, IT CONDENSES TIME.
  • 00:35:51.030 --> 00:35:53.140
  • AT THAT MOMENT WHEN YOU'VE ALMOST LOST ALL
  • 00:35:53.160 --> 00:35:55.130
  • YOUR TIME, YOU PROBABLY SAY I'M TAKING TOO LONG
  • 00:35:55.150 --> 00:35:57.280
  • ON THESE THINGS, AND THEN IT'S CLARITY.
  • 00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:00.120
  • THE CAMERA LENS FOCUSES, THAT'S REALLY WHAT
  • 00:36:00.140 --> 00:36:03.090
  • I SHOULD BE DOING AND NOTHING ELSE.
  • 00:36:03.110 --> 00:36:04.190
  • - IF WE CAN LEARN THAT YOUNG.
  • 00:36:04.210 --> 00:36:07.020
  • - WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT?
  • 00:36:07.040 --> 00:36:08.220
  • YOU KNOW I DON'T WANT TO OVERSTATE MY FATHER
  • 00:36:08.240 --> 00:36:12.110
  • KNEW RONALD REAGAN, AND THEY WOULD MEET ON
  • 00:36:12.130 --> 00:36:16.060
  • OCCASION WHEN HE WAS PRESIDENT, AND IN THOSE
  • 00:36:16.080 --> 00:36:20.120
  • TYPES OF MEETINGS AT THE WHITE HOUSE, CALL THEM
  • 00:36:20.140 --> 00:36:22.080
  • POLICY MATTERS AND MY DAD BEING IN THE BROADCAST
  • 00:36:22.100 --> 00:36:25.090
  • INDUSTRY ALL OF THOSE YEARS, SO THERE WAS SOME
  • 00:36:25.110 --> 00:36:28.180
  • CONNECTION, BUT MY DAD TELLS THE STORY OF HAVING
  • 00:36:28.200 --> 00:36:30.260
  • RONALD REAGAN CAMPAIGNING FOR GOVERNOR IN THE RIGHT
  • 00:36:30.280 --> 00:36:34.280
  • SEAT OF HIS VOLKSWAGEN BUG DRIVING HIM TO THE
  • 00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:39.230
  • RADIO STATION SO THAT HE COULD CONDUCT AN
  • 00:36:39.250 --> 00:36:43.100
  • INTERVIEW WITH HIM BACK IN THE 1960'S AND
  • 00:36:43.120 --> 00:36:46.060
  • IN CORONA, CALIFORNIA.
  • 00:36:46.080 --> 00:36:48.240
  • I WISH I HAD A PICTURE OF MY DAD AND RONALD REAGAN
  • 00:36:48.260 --> 00:36:51.240
  • IN A VOLKSWAGEN.
  • 00:36:51.260 --> 00:36:53.280
  • BUT BASICALLY, HIS STORY COMING FROM A CALIFORNIA
  • 00:36:54.000 --> 00:37:00.050
  • PERSPECTIVE WAS ALWAYS MORE ON OUR FAMILY'S RADAR.
  • 00:37:00.070 --> 00:37:03.290
  • HE WAS OUR GOVERNOR, SOMEBODY THAT MY PARENTS
  • 00:37:04.010 --> 00:37:06.060
  • HAD KNOWN AND MET ON A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS, SO
  • 00:37:06.080 --> 00:37:10.060
  • ULTIMATELY WHEN IT GETS INTO THIS KIND OF
  • 00:37:10.080 --> 00:37:13.010
  • CATEGORY, WHAT IS CLASSICALLY TALKED ABOUT
  • 00:37:13.030 --> 00:37:16.240
  • IN CERTAIN CIRCLES IS WHAT RONALD REAGAN CARED
  • 00:37:16.260 --> 00:37:19.200
  • ABOUT AND WHAT HE DIDN'T CARE ABOUT.
  • 00:37:19.220 --> 00:37:21.180
  • HE CARED ABOUT DESTROYING COMMUNISM AS AN EVIL
  • 00:37:21.200 --> 00:37:26.030
  • FORCE AND ALMOST NOTHING ELSE.
  • 00:37:26.050 --> 00:37:29.020
  • AND SO THERE WAS A FOCUS BEYOND.
  • 00:37:29.040 --> 00:37:34.140
  • I THINK THE TAKEAWAY IS WHEN CAN WE START LASER
  • 00:37:34.160 --> 00:37:39.250
  • FOCUSING ON THINGS LIKE THESE HISTORY LESSONS
  • 00:37:39.270 --> 00:37:44.220
  • TELL US TO GET AMAZING THINGS DONE.
  • 00:37:44.240 --> 00:37:47.060
  • IN A MINUTE WE'RE GONNA GO TO A CLIP ON RONALD--
  • 00:37:47.080 --> 00:37:50.060
  • - CAN I GO BACK TO ONE THING ABOUT YOU KEEP
  • 00:37:50.080 --> 00:37:52.190
  • MENTIONING THE GIANTS AND IN THE METAPHOR OF
  • 00:37:52.210 --> 00:37:54.290
  • THE THEO DRAMA AGAIN, BUT ONE COMMENTATOR,
  • 00:37:55.010 --> 00:37:57.070
  • STEPHEN KOTKIN, WHO IS AT PRINCETON UNIVERSITY OF
  • 00:37:57.090 --> 00:37:59.120
  • RUSSIA HE DOES STALIN AND RUSSIA.
  • 00:37:59.140 --> 00:38:01.090
  • BUT HE SAID IF YOU EVER WANT TO ACT ME CASTING
  • 00:38:01.110 --> 00:38:04.030
  • TO GIVE YOU THE FIVE CHARACTERS,
  • 00:38:04.050 --> 00:38:05.250
  • YOU'D PICK THESE FIVE AND AT THE SAME TIME, LIKE IN
  • 00:38:05.270 --> 00:38:08.040
  • HISTORY, BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS SO RELEVANT
  • 00:38:08.060 --> 00:38:10.030
  • TO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
  • 00:38:10.050 --> 00:38:11.130
  • I JUST WANTED TO ADD THAT PIECE THAT IT'S UNCOMMON,
  • 00:38:11.150 --> 00:38:14.020
  • UNHEARD OF EVEN IN 200 YEARS OF HISTORY.
  • 00:38:14.040 --> 00:38:16.220
  • - OKAY. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DIVINE PLAN.
  • 00:38:16.240 --> 00:38:18.220
  • I DON'T KNOW IF WE'VE EVEN SAID YOU ARE THE
  • 00:38:18.240 --> 00:38:21.180
  • DIRECTOR OF THIS FILM.
  • 00:38:21.200 --> 00:38:23.050
  • - WRITER DIRECTOR.
  • 00:38:23.070 --> 00:38:24.060
  • - WRITER DIRECTOR.
  • 00:38:24.080 --> 00:38:25.190
  • - WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO COME AWAY WITH
  • 00:38:25.210 --> 00:38:27.150
  • WHEN THEY SEE YOUR FILM?
  • 00:38:27.170 --> 00:38:29.050
  • - A FEW THINGS. I WANT THEM TO,
  • 00:38:29.070 --> 00:38:32.030
  • WELL IN THE BOOK, THE BOOK IS A DEEPER DIVE.
  • 00:38:32.050 --> 00:38:34.040
  • I WANT THEM TO SEE THAT THE CHOICES YOU MAKE WHEN
  • 00:38:34.060 --> 00:38:37.140
  • YOU'RE YOUNGER AND HOW YOU HANDLE SUFFERING,
  • 00:38:37.160 --> 00:38:40.010
  • YOUR ATTITUDE TOWARDS SUFFERING, YOUR FAITH,
  • 00:38:40.030 --> 00:38:41.250
  • ALL ARE ANTECEDENTS TOWARD THE OPTIONS YOU
  • 00:38:41.270 --> 00:38:44.240
  • HAVE AND YOUR PERSPECTIVE LATER IN LIFE AS OPPOSED
  • 00:38:44.260 --> 00:38:46.290
  • TO-- YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS.
  • 00:38:47.010 --> 00:38:49.210
  • I ACTUALLY MADE THIS FILM DURING THE TRUMP ELECTION,
  • 00:38:49.230 --> 00:38:51.210
  • AND NOT TO GO POLITICAL HERE TOO MUCH, BUT I FOUND THAT
  • 00:38:51.230 --> 00:38:54.160
  • THAT CYNICISM THERE WAS IN THE AIR WAS JUST SO
  • 00:38:54.180 --> 00:38:57.160
  • POISONOUS, REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOUR PERSPECTIVE WAS.
  • 00:38:57.180 --> 00:38:59.210
  • AND I THOUGHT IS THERE A BETTER TIME?
  • 00:38:59.230 --> 00:39:02.110
  • IS THERE A TIME WHERE YOU CAN UNITE IN LIGHT OF WE ALL
  • 00:39:02.130 --> 00:39:05.020
  • KNOW THE CYNICISM THAT COMES WITH POLITICS AND POWER AND
  • 00:39:05.040 --> 00:39:07.170
  • ALL OF THAT, BUT IS THERE A BETTER TIME,
  • 00:39:07.190 --> 00:39:09.150
  • LIKE A BETTER LIGHT?
  • 00:39:09.170 --> 00:39:11.130
  • SO I WANTED TO DIG IN LIKE WELL, WHAT
  • 00:39:11.150 --> 00:39:13.040
  • MADE THEM DIFFERENT?
  • 00:39:13.060 --> 00:39:14.170
  • BECAUSE THEY WERE MEN AT SOME LEVEL, AND I'M SURE
  • 00:39:14.190 --> 00:39:16.220
  • THEY SINNED AND DID THINGS THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE.
  • 00:39:16.240 --> 00:39:18.250
  • BUT OVERALL, THEIR THRUST WAS TOWARD THEIR FAITH AND A
  • 00:39:18.270 --> 00:39:21.120
  • REALIZATION OF A HIGHER MISSION, A DIVINE MISSION.
  • 00:39:21.140 --> 00:39:24.150
  • AND I THINK THE ANTECEDENTS ARE IN THEIR YOUTH, HOW THEY
  • 00:39:24.170 --> 00:39:27.150
  • THINK ABOUT THEIR THEOLOGY AND THEIR PHILOSOPHY OF LIFE
  • 00:39:27.170 --> 00:39:29.280
  • AND THIS KIND OF AT EVERY MOMENT, WHEN YOU'RE
  • 00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.070
  • SUFFERING, YOU COULD CHOOSE BOTH WAYS.
  • 00:39:32.090 --> 00:39:34.020
  • YOU COULD BECOME A VICTIM, OR YOU COULD KEEP MOVING AND
  • 00:39:34.040 --> 00:39:36.040
  • SAY WHAT DID I NEED TO LEARN FROM THAT?
  • 00:39:36.060 --> 00:39:37.280
  • AND MOVE ONTO HIGHER GROUND.
  • 00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:39.280
  • SO THAT WOULD BE THE BOOK PIECE, THE DEEPER DIVE, IF
  • 00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:41.080
  • YOU WILL.
  • 00:39:41.100 --> 00:39:43.030
  • THE FILM, WELL, THERE'S THREE AUDIENCES.
  • 00:39:43.050 --> 00:39:45.050
  • I THINK I'M THINKING OF YOUNG PEOPLE SAYING, LIKE,
  • 00:39:45.070 --> 00:39:47.100
  • PLEASE, IF THIS GRAPHIC NOVEL STYLE FILM CAN GET
  • 00:39:47.120 --> 00:39:49.270
  • YOUR ATTENTION JUST IN STYLE SO I COULD HAVE A
  • 00:39:49.290 --> 00:39:52.060
  • CONVERSATION WITH YOU AT A HIGH SCHOOL
  • 00:39:52.080 --> 00:39:54.100
  • OR A COLLEGE, PLEASE.
  • 00:39:54.120 --> 00:39:55.280
  • WE LIVE IN CYCLES.
  • 00:39:56.000 --> 00:39:57.290
  • LIKE THIS CAN COME BACK AGAIN, AND PLEASE LOOK AT
  • 00:39:58.010 --> 00:40:00.040
  • THIS BECAUSE WE ESCAPED A BULLET
  • 00:40:00.060 --> 00:40:02.010
  • HERE, BIG TIME BULLET.
  • 00:40:02.030 --> 00:40:04.010
  • WE DIDN'T FIGHT A WHOLE WORLD WAR AGAIN.
  • 00:40:04.030 --> 00:40:07.010
  • DOUGLAS BRINKLEY SAYS IN THE FILM -- YEAH, DOUGLAS
  • 00:40:07.030 --> 00:40:10.030
  • BRINKLEY SAYS IN THE FILM, THERE MAY BE A COLD WAR TWO
  • 00:40:10.050 --> 00:40:13.080
  • COMING BECAUSE WORLD WAR TWO CAME AS A RESULT OF NOT
  • 00:40:13.100 --> 00:40:15.190
  • FINISHING WORLD WAR ONE.
  • 00:40:15.210 --> 00:40:17.250
  • BUT I THINK IT'S A CAUTIONARY TILE FOR THE
  • 00:40:17.270 --> 00:40:19.290
  • YOUNGER PEOPLE.
  • 00:40:20.010 --> 00:40:21.230
  • FOR THE OLDER PEOPLE, I THINK IT'S LIKE TO REINFORCE
  • 00:40:21.250 --> 00:40:23.270
  • THAT THEY LIVED THROUGH SOMETHING AND PERHAPS DIDN'T
  • 00:40:23.290 --> 00:40:26.010
  • SEE HOW ALL THE CONNECTIVE TISSUE WENT TOGETHER AND TO
  • 00:40:26.030 --> 00:40:27.250
  • AFFIRM THE STORY.
  • 00:40:27.270 --> 00:40:29.220
  • I COMPARE IT, AGAIN, WITH -- THINK ABOUT THE APOSTLE
  • 00:40:29.240 --> 00:40:32.050
  • PAUL'S LETTERS AND LUKE WRITING THE ACTS
  • 00:40:32.070 --> 00:40:34.100
  • OF THE APOSTLES.
  • 00:40:34.120 --> 00:40:36.060
  • THE ACTS SURVIVES MORE THAN LUKE WHERE IT'S MORE KNOWN
  • 00:40:36.080 --> 00:40:37.290
  • BECAUSE IT'S A STORY.
  • 00:40:38.010 --> 00:40:39.210
  • LIKE WRITING EPISTLES IS MORE LIKE TEACHING AND
  • 00:40:39.230 --> 00:40:41.280
  • CORRECTING, BUT A STORY HAS THAT BROAD INFLUENCE.
  • 00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:44.240
  • SO BY PUTTING TOGETHER HISTORICAL DETAILS INTO A
  • 00:40:44.260 --> 00:40:47.050
  • DRAMATIC STRUCTURE, I WAS HOPING IT WOULD ALMOST BE
  • 00:40:47.070 --> 00:40:50.060
  • LIKE A MYTHICAL CAPTURE FOR OUR TIME, A SNAP SHOT, THAT
  • 00:40:50.080 --> 00:40:54.100
  • EVERYONE WOULD COME AND SAY WOW, THAT WAS OUR TIME, BUT
  • 00:40:54.120 --> 00:40:56.140
  • WE DON'T HAVE TO WAIT A HUNDRED YEARS
  • 00:40:56.160 --> 00:40:57.290
  • TO APPRECIATE IT.
  • 00:40:58.010 --> 00:40:59.220
  • - IT'S ALL CHANGE OF PERSPECTIVE.
  • 00:40:59.240 --> 00:41:01.240
  • - ROBERT ORLANDO IS ACME CASTING FOR DIRECTOR AND A
  • 00:41:01.260 --> 00:41:05.150
  • WRITER FOR FILM.
  • 00:41:05.170 --> 00:41:07.070
  • - PLEASE, MAKE UP, PLEASE.
  • 00:41:07.090 --> 00:41:09.090
  • [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:41:09.110 --> 00:41:10.260
  • - ACME CASTING, OKAY.
  • 00:41:10.280 --> 00:41:12.170
  • AND THEN IN MY RIGHT EAR JUST A SECOND, BOB,
  • 00:41:12.190 --> 00:41:15.070
  • ANTECEDENTS, THE DEFINITION OF ANTECEDENTS?
  • 00:41:15.090 --> 00:41:19.070
  • SOMETHING THAT COMES BEFORE.
  • 00:41:19.090 --> 00:41:21.060
  • OKAY, GOOD, I GOT THAT NOW.
  • 00:41:21.080 --> 00:41:22.270
  • - DID YOU GUYS REHEARSE THIS?
  • 00:41:22.290 --> 00:41:24.100
  • - YEAH, IT'S A SCHTICK THAT WE TO.
  • 00:41:24.120 --> 00:41:25.180
  • [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:41:25.200 --> 00:41:27.070
  • - BEEN WORKING TOGETHER WAY TOO LONG.
  • 00:41:27.090 --> 00:41:28.260
  • - WE NEED A CAMERA ON BOB.
  • 00:41:28.280 --> 00:41:30.160
  • HE'S LIKE MY ED MCMAHON.
  • 00:41:30.180 --> 00:41:32.010
  • HE JUST DOESN'T LAUGH AS GOOD.
  • 00:41:32.030 --> 00:41:34.010
  • - YOU NEED MY SEAT, BOB. YOU CAN HAVE IT.
  • 00:41:34.030 --> 00:41:37.210
  • - SO THE DIVINE PLAN, ROBERT ORLANDO IS SITTING
  • 00:41:37.230 --> 00:41:39.280
  • RIGHT HERE, THE GUY THAT LOOKS LIKE A DIRECTOR.
  • 00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:42.250
  • IF WILL BE IN THEATERS AS A FATHOM EVENT NOVEMBER 6TH.
  • 00:41:42.270 --> 00:41:46.180
  • AND REMEMBER, EVERYBODY, THE FATHOM EVENT THING IS ONE
  • 00:41:46.200 --> 00:41:53.030
  • NIGHT ONLY. YOU HAVE TO GO. IT'S PLAYING THAT NIGHT.
  • 00:41:53.050 --> 00:41:57.030
  • IT'S NOT LIKE A FILM RELEASE THAT YOU CAN GET AROUND TO
  • 00:41:57.050 --> 00:42:00.180
  • IT A WEEK OR TWO LATER.
  • 00:42:00.200 --> 00:42:02.230
  • THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE TAKEN CARE OF.
  • 00:42:02.250 --> 00:42:05.230
  • SO NOVEMBER 6TH, MARK THE DATE, AND GET A DEEP DIVE
  • 00:42:05.250 --> 00:42:10.160
  • THAT A DIVINE PLAN.
  • 00:42:10.180 --> 00:42:12.100
  • OKAY, SUPER IMPORTANT SUBJECT.
  • 00:42:12.120 --> 00:42:14.190
  • LET'S GO INTO A CLIP CALLED RONALD REAGAN. WATCH THIS.
  • 00:42:14.210 --> 00:42:19.020
  • - AS REAGAN TASTED POLITICS, AND HE REALIZED,
  • 00:42:19.040 --> 00:42:23.030
  • YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOMETHING OUT THERE, REAGAN REALIZED
  • 00:42:23.050 --> 00:42:26.100
  • THAT HE WAS SMART.
  • 00:42:26.120 --> 00:42:28.080
  • HE REALIZED THAT HE COULD BE GOOD AT POLITICS.
  • 00:42:28.100 --> 00:42:30.170
  • THERE WAS A TASTE OF POLITICS IN HIS MOUTH.
  • 00:42:30.190 --> 00:42:32.190
  • AND AT THIS POINT, I THINK HE BEGINS THINKING BEYOND
  • 00:42:32.210 --> 00:42:35.150
  • WHAT'S MY NEXT CAREER?
  • 00:42:35.170 --> 00:42:37.170
  • WHAT'S MY NEXT ROLE?
  • 00:42:37.190 --> 00:42:39.190
  • - NARRATOR: BY 1964, HE HAD CHANGED FROM DEMOCRAT
  • 00:42:39.210 --> 00:42:42.020
  • TO REPUBLICAN, AND BEGAN ACTING IN THE POLITICAL ARENA.
  • 00:42:42.040 --> 00:42:45.240
  • WHILE CAMPAIGNING FOR BARRY GOLDWATER, HE DELIVERED WHAT
  • 00:42:45.260 --> 00:42:49.010
  • WOULD BECOME KNOWN AS THE "A TIME FOR CHOOSING" SPEECH,
  • 00:42:49.030 --> 00:42:53.040
  • OR MORE SIMPLY "THE SPEECH."
  • 00:42:53.060 --> 00:42:56.130
  • - YOU AND I HAVE A RENDEZVOUS WITH DESTINY.
  • 00:42:56.150 --> 00:42:59.040
  • WE'LL PRESERVE, FOR OUR CHILDREN, THIS, THE LAST,
  • 00:42:59.060 --> 00:43:01.240
  • BEST HOPE OF MAN ON EARTH, OR WE'LL SENTENCE THEM TO
  • 00:43:01.260 --> 00:43:04.150
  • TAKE THE LAST STEP INTO A THOUSAND YEAR OF DARKNESS.
  • 00:43:04.170 --> 00:43:07.250
  • - SO HE'S SAYING THIS TRANSCENDS PARTISAN
  • 00:43:07.270 --> 00:43:10.150
  • POLITICS, BUT WE MUST PRESERVE, WE MUST HONOR, WE
  • 00:43:10.170 --> 00:43:13.260
  • MUST KNOW, AND WE MUST LIVE UP TO THE PRINCIPLES THAT
  • 00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:19.210
  • ARE A PART OF THAT VISION OF A SHINING CITY ON A HILL.
  • 00:43:19.230 --> 00:43:24.040
  • - YOU JUST SAW JAMES ROSEBUSH WHO WAS SECRETARY TO
  • 00:43:24.060 --> 00:43:26.130
  • NANCY REAGAN.
  • 00:43:26.150 --> 00:43:27.290
  • SO HE WOULD SIT IN THE BACK WHEN REAGAN
  • 00:43:28.010 --> 00:43:29.190
  • WOULD TRAVEL AROUND.
  • 00:43:29.210 --> 00:43:31.040
  • HE WAS KIND OF THE IN BETWEEN TIMES CHOOSING SUITS.
  • 00:43:31.060 --> 00:43:33.050
  • SO HE HAD AN INTIMATE CONNECTION.
  • 00:43:33.070 --> 00:43:35.100
  • HE HAD TO BE IN THIS FILM.
  • 00:43:35.120 --> 00:43:36.270
  • AND HE ONCE ASKED REAGAN WHAT HIS TWO FAVORITE HYMNS
  • 00:43:36.290 --> 00:43:39.250
  • WERE, AND TO ME, THIS IS VERY REVEALING.
  • 00:43:39.270 --> 00:43:41.280
  • YOUR HYMN CHOICE IS LIKE YOUR BIBLE VERSE, RIGHT?
  • 00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:44.080
  • YOU CHOOSE ROMANS 5 OR ROMANS 12.
  • 00:43:44.100 --> 00:43:46.210
  • SO HE CHOSE THE GARDEN -- I COME TO THE GARDEN ALONE.
  • 00:43:46.230 --> 00:43:51.010
  • AND YOU THINK ABOUT A FAITH THAT'S -- A HYMN THAT WOULD
  • 00:43:51.030 --> 00:43:55.010
  • BE SO REVEALING ABOUT SOMEONE'S TRUST IN A FATHER,
  • 00:43:55.030 --> 00:43:57.160
  • A HEAVENLY FATHER.
  • 00:43:57.180 --> 00:43:59.100
  • YOU THINK ABOUT THAT.
  • 00:43:59.120 --> 00:44:00.200
  • DO YOU KNOW THE SONG?
  • 00:44:00.220 --> 00:44:02.060
  • - YES, WHEN THE DEW IS STILL ON THE ROSE, AND THE
  • 00:44:02.080 --> 00:44:03.220
  • VOICE -- IT'S LIKE A SIMPLE FAITH OF A CHILD.
  • 00:44:03.240 --> 00:44:06.030
  • SO TO ME -- AND THERE WERE TWO OTHERS I WON'T GET INTO,
  • 00:44:06.050 --> 00:44:08.260
  • BUT THAT I THINK SAYS IT ALL; THAT HE KNEW, AT THAT
  • 00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:11.260
  • MOMENT, AND COULD HUM THAT SONG TO JAMES ROSEBUSH.
  • 00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:14.080
  • SO I THOUGHT IT WAS THE EARLIER CHILDHOOD SEGMENT,
  • 00:44:14.100 --> 00:44:17.080
  • BUT THAT WAS FINE.
  • 00:44:17.100 --> 00:44:19.030
  • ANYWAY, GO AHEAD.
  • 00:44:19.050 --> 00:44:20.260
  • - WOW, WHAT WAS THE SECOND ONE, DO YOU REMEMBER?
  • 00:44:20.280 --> 00:44:23.270
  • - I HAVE TO GET BACK TO YOU.
  • 00:44:23.290 --> 00:44:25.190
  • - OKAY. - WE'LL EDIT IT IN.
  • 00:44:25.210 --> 00:44:27.040
  • - BOB.
  • 00:44:27.060 --> 00:44:28.180
  • [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:44:28.200 --> 00:44:30.290
  • - SNAP, SNAP, IT'S NOT WORKING, OKAY.
  • 00:44:31.010 --> 00:44:33.220
  • - BOB, HELLO?
  • 00:44:33.240 --> 00:44:36.250
  • - BOB, GET THAT VERSE, PLEASE.
  • 00:44:36.270 --> 00:44:38.260
  • - OKAY, THE REALITY IS THERE WAS A DIVINE PLAN, AND
  • 00:44:38.280 --> 00:44:47.260
  • IT WORKED, IN ESSENCE.
  • 00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:50.060
  • WHAT'S YOUR VERSION?
  • 00:44:50.080 --> 00:44:54.120
  • I'VE HEARD A FEW DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF WHEN RONALD
  • 00:44:54.140 --> 00:44:57.070
  • REAGAN STARTED PLANNING THIS.
  • 00:44:57.090 --> 00:45:00.240
  • I'VE HEARD VERSIONS THAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THIS IN
  • 00:45:00.260 --> 00:45:04.050
  • THE LATE 60s, THAT ECONOMICALLY, HE STARTED
  • 00:45:04.070 --> 00:45:08.290
  • WITH THIS THOUGHT THAT THERE COULD BE AN ECONOMIC, IN
  • 00:45:09.010 --> 00:45:12.250
  • ESSENCE, OUT SPEND THEM INTO OBLIVION KIND
  • 00:45:12.270 --> 00:45:15.290
  • OF A SITUATION. IS THAT PART?
  • 00:45:16.010 --> 00:45:19.030
  • - I HAVE A GOOD TANGIBLE STORY I THINK THAT
  • 00:45:19.050 --> 00:45:21.250
  • REPRESENTS THIS SYMBOLICALLY.
  • 00:45:21.270 --> 00:45:23.240
  • I DID A REAGAN LECTURE AT PAUL'S COLLEGE, PAUL
  • 00:45:23.260 --> 00:45:26.160
  • KENGOR'S COLLEGE, IN GROVE CITY, AND HE
  • 00:45:26.180 --> 00:45:29.180
  • INVITED HERB MEIER.
  • 00:45:29.200 --> 00:45:31.180
  • HERB MEIER WAS THE SECOND HAND MAN WITH GATES TO BILL
  • 00:45:31.200 --> 00:45:34.110
  • CASEY, AND HE WROTE THE MEMO, THE ORIGINAL MEMO THAT
  • 00:45:34.130 --> 00:45:36.280
  • WAS GIVEN TO REAGAN ABOUT WHY WE CAN DEFEAT THE
  • 00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:40.170
  • SOVIETS, THROUGH THEIR RESEARCH AND INTELLIGENCE.
  • 00:45:40.190 --> 00:45:42.290
  • AND ONE OF THE THINGS THEY NOTICED IS AT THE END OF THE
  • 00:45:43.010 --> 00:45:45.120
  • DAY IN THE SOVIET UNION, THE K.G.B.
  • 00:45:45.140 --> 00:45:48.150
  • OR WHATEVER, THE SUPERVISORS WOULD COME IN AND TAKE THE
  • 00:45:48.170 --> 00:45:50.210
  • TAPE OUT OF THE TYPE WRITERS BECAUSE THEY FOUND THAT THE
  • 00:45:50.230 --> 00:45:53.130
  • PEOPLE WERE TRYING TO COPY SOLZHENITSYN'S WORKS
  • 00:45:53.150 --> 00:45:55.230
  • AFTER WORK, COPYING.
  • 00:45:55.250 --> 00:45:58.240
  • AND THEY SAID IF THAT'S SUCH A FRAIL -- THE PEOPLE WERE
  • 00:45:58.260 --> 00:46:02.080
  • JUST CRAVING THIS KIND OF FREEDOM, THAT THEY KNEW THEY
  • 00:46:02.100 --> 00:46:06.010
  • COULD JUST PULL ON THAT STRING, AND THE WHOLE
  • 00:46:06.030 --> 00:46:07.210
  • TAPESTRY WOULD COME DOWN.
  • 00:46:07.230 --> 00:46:09.160
  • AND HERB MEIER KNEW THEM INTIMATELY, SO WE SAT WITH
  • 00:46:09.180 --> 00:46:11.200
  • HIM AND HE TALKED TO HIM A WHILE.
  • 00:46:11.220 --> 00:46:13.060
  • BUT I THINK IT GOES BACK.
  • 00:46:13.090 --> 00:46:14.290
  • SO FOR ME, THE FILM MAKER -- AND I HAVE TALKED TO PEOPLE
  • 00:46:15.010 --> 00:46:17.270
  • ABOUT MAKING THIS INTO A SERIES OR A FILM, AND I'M
  • 00:46:17.290 --> 00:46:20.100
  • ALREADY IN DISCUSSION.
  • 00:46:20.120 --> 00:46:21.260
  • I'M JUST TOO BUSY TRYING TO GET THIS FATHOM EVENT
  • 00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:23.090
  • OFF THE GROUND.
  • 00:46:23.110 --> 00:46:24.290
  • BUT WHEN THEY ASKED ME WHERE'S THE FORMATIVE
  • 00:46:25.010 --> 00:46:27.000
  • YEARS FOR REAGAN?
  • 00:46:27.020 --> 00:46:28.230
  • I THINK IT'S ABOUT THE UNIONS IN HOLLYWOOD BECAUSE
  • 00:46:28.250 --> 00:46:30.150
  • THAT'S WHERE HE TRAINED.
  • 00:46:30.170 --> 00:46:32.050
  • HE WAS A LIFETIME FDR FAN AND A LIBERAL DEMOCRAT
  • 00:46:32.070 --> 00:46:34.060
  • HIS WHOLE LIFE.
  • 00:46:34.080 --> 00:46:35.280
  • I DON'T THINK HE THOUGHT ABOUT CHANGING.
  • 00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:38.030
  • AND HE READ WHITAKER CHAMBERS AND HE READ SOME
  • 00:46:38.050 --> 00:46:39.230
  • OTHER WELL-KNOWN CONSERVATIVES, BUT WHEN HE
  • 00:46:39.250 --> 00:46:41.220
  • ULTIMATELY SAW THAT THEY WERE PELTING HIS BUSES AND
  • 00:46:41.240 --> 00:46:43.210
  • WILLING TO GO TO A LEVEL OF VIOLENCE STERLING HATED.
  • 00:46:43.230 --> 00:46:47.040
  • STERLING HATED AND TURNED ON HIM, AND HE WAS GOING TO
  • 00:46:47.060 --> 00:46:49.100
  • THROW ACID IN HIS FACE AND ALL OF THAT.
  • 00:46:49.120 --> 00:46:51.140
  • WHEN HE SAW THAT THE MARXISTS WERE ABLE TO GET
  • 00:46:51.160 --> 00:46:53.110
  • BEHIND THE UNIONS AND TURN ON HOLLYWOOD, WHICH HE
  • 00:46:53.130 --> 00:46:55.030
  • THOUGHT, AT THE TIME, WAS PRESERVING AN AMERICAN
  • 00:46:55.050 --> 00:46:57.140
  • VALUE, I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE SWITCH WENT OFF.
  • 00:46:57.160 --> 00:47:00.140
  • LIKE THIS IS NOT JUST ANOTHER IDEA.
  • 00:47:00.160 --> 00:47:02.090
  • THIS IS SOMETHING MORE THAN THAT, AND
  • 00:47:02.110 --> 00:47:03.230
  • I'M SET AGAINST IT.
  • 00:47:03.250 --> 00:47:05.100
  • I THINK THAT'S WHEN HE FLED.
  • 00:47:05.120 --> 00:47:06.290
  • SO IT GOES BACK TO 30s AND 40s.
  • 00:47:07.010 --> 00:47:09.110
  • - OKAY, I HAVE TO TAP MY THING.
  • 00:47:09.130 --> 00:47:12.070
  • [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:47:12.090 --> 00:47:14.060
  • WHAT WAS THE--
  • 00:47:14.080 --> 00:47:15.280
  • - PULL UP A CHAIR, BOB.
  • 00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:18.020
  • - ACTUALLY, CAYLAN CAN HELP ME HERE, TOO.
  • 00:47:18.040 --> 00:47:21.210
  • WE WATCHED A DOCUMENTARY SERIES ON THE
  • 00:47:21.230 --> 00:47:23.180
  • NUCLEAR PLANT THAT BLEW UP.
  • 00:47:23.200 --> 00:47:27.060
  • - CHERNOBYL. - CHERNOBYL.
  • 00:47:27.080 --> 00:47:29.240
  • - EVEN I KNOW THAT, BOB.
  • 00:47:29.260 --> 00:47:31.140
  • CHERNOBYL FOR A HUNDRED PLEASE.
  • 00:47:31.160 --> 00:47:32.250
  • [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:47:32.270 --> 00:47:34.170
  • - GOT IT. AND SO SOME PEOPLE BRING CHERNOBYL INTO THE MIX,
  • 00:47:34.190 --> 00:47:39.160
  • THAT THAT WAS SUCH A MESS THAT THEY COULDN'T -- IT WAS JUST
  • 00:47:39.180 --> 00:47:43.180
  • KICKING ONE OF THE OTHER LEGS OUT FROM THE STOOL.
  • 00:47:43.200 --> 00:47:46.290
  • DO YOU SEE THAT?
  • 00:47:47.010 --> 00:47:50.280
  • - I SAID THIS EARLIER, SO I DON'T MEAN TO COUNTER WHAT
  • 00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:53.150
  • YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT GORBACHEV AND HIS LEVEL OF
  • 00:47:53.170 --> 00:47:55.140
  • FAITH, BUT I THINK HE DIDN'T HAVE MANY OPTIONS.
  • 00:47:55.160 --> 00:47:59.140
  • SO WHETHER HIS FAITH WAS PART OF IT OR NOT, HE DIDN'T
  • 00:47:59.160 --> 00:48:02.050
  • HAVE MANY OPTIONS ON THE GROUND.
  • 00:48:02.070 --> 00:48:03.290
  • I DON'T THINK HE EVER STOPPED BEING A COMMUNIST,
  • 00:48:04.010 --> 00:48:06.150
  • BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THEY KNEW WAS THAT ONCE YOU
  • 00:48:06.170 --> 00:48:08.270
  • BECOME TRANSPARENT TO THE REST OF THE WORLD, OTHER
  • 00:48:08.290 --> 00:48:11.140
  • PEOPLE ARE GOING TO COME IN AND SEE ALL THE GOOD WORK
  • 00:48:11.160 --> 00:48:13.090
  • YOU'VE BEEN DOING.
  • 00:48:13.110 --> 00:48:15.030
  • SO CHERNOBYL WAS LIKE A SPARK, AND HE KNEW ONCE --
  • 00:48:15.050 --> 00:48:17.140
  • WE BETTER CHANGE THE WHOLE DYNAMIC HERE BECAUSE IF THEY
  • 00:48:17.160 --> 00:48:19.160
  • COME IN AND FIND CHERNOBYL AND EVERYTHING ELSE, THEY'RE
  • 00:48:19.180 --> 00:48:21.160
  • GOING TO GO LIKE, THIS STINKS WHAT YOU GUYS
  • 00:48:21.180 --> 00:48:23.120
  • HAVE BEEN DOING HERE!
  • 00:48:23.140 --> 00:48:24.250
  • LIKE, THIS THING DOESN'T WORK, AND IT WOULD HAVE BEEN
  • 00:48:24.270 --> 00:48:26.080
  • EVIDENT TO THE WHOLE WORLD.
  • 00:48:26.100 --> 00:48:27.270
  • BUT MY POINT IS THERE WAS NO HIDING WHAT THE GOOD WORK
  • 00:48:27.290 --> 00:48:30.210
  • THEY HAD BEEN DOING FOR SO LONG.
  • 00:48:30.230 --> 00:48:32.060
  • SO PART OF WHY HE HAD TO START LETTING DOWN THE WALLS
  • 00:48:32.080 --> 00:48:34.060
  • WAS HE HAD TO FIND CONCESSION TO ALLOW THEM TO
  • 00:48:34.080 --> 00:48:37.010
  • COME IN WITHOUT COMPLETELY CRUSHING WHAT THE SOVIETS
  • 00:48:37.030 --> 00:48:39.070
  • HAD BEEN DOING.
  • 00:48:39.090 --> 00:48:41.230
  • - OKAY, NOW, WE KNOW WHAT WE'RE
  • 00:48:41.250 --> 00:48:43.210
  • TALKING ABOUT. WE'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT IT.
  • 00:48:43.230 --> 00:48:46.030
  • WHERE IS SOME INTERESTING THREAD YOU'VE FOUND, SOME
  • 00:48:46.050 --> 00:48:50.210
  • INTERESTING THING THAT YOU COULD HAVE READ PAUL
  • 00:48:50.230 --> 00:48:53.290
  • KENGOR'S BOOK, YOU COULD HAVE READ MANY OTHER BOOKS.
  • 00:48:54.010 --> 00:48:57.250
  • WHAT NEW THREAD OR PIECE DID YOU FIND THAT YOU FOUND
  • 00:48:57.270 --> 00:49:00.140
  • INTERESTING TO THE STORY?
  • 00:49:00.160 --> 00:49:02.240
  • - I JUST SAW SOMETHING HERE.
  • 00:49:02.260 --> 00:49:06.010
  • GORBACHEV, TWO DECADES YOUNGER THAN HIS
  • 00:49:06.030 --> 00:49:08.150
  • PREDECESSORS, EMERGED AS A DIFFERENT KIND OF
  • 00:49:08.170 --> 00:49:11.060
  • LEADER FOR THE USSR.
  • 00:49:11.080 --> 00:49:13.070
  • HE WOULD EVEN USE THESE WORDS TO RONALD REAGAN,
  • 00:49:13.090 --> 00:49:17.020
  • "I AM CONVINCED THAT IT IS GOD'S WILL THAT
  • 00:49:17.040 --> 00:49:20.110
  • WE COOPERATE."
  • 00:49:20.130 --> 00:49:22.070
  • - AND HE QUOTED ECCLIASTES, TOO,
  • 00:49:22.090 --> 00:49:24.150
  • THERE'S A TIME TO TURN AWAY.
  • 00:49:24.170 --> 00:49:26.060
  • HE QUOTED IT, BUT I'M SAYING IT'S JUST HARD TO PARSE THAT
  • 00:49:26.080 --> 00:49:30.000
  • OUT IN THE MIDST OF SUCH STRONG DIPLOMACY WHEN THEY
  • 00:49:30.020 --> 00:49:33.060
  • WERE ASKING FOR RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.
  • 00:49:33.080 --> 00:49:34.260
  • IT'S HARD TO KNOW WHERE HE STOOD.
  • 00:49:34.280 --> 00:49:37.030
  • I WOULD LIKE TO BELIEVE HE'S MORE OPEN, GENERALLY
  • 00:49:37.050 --> 00:49:39.260
  • SPEAKING FOR SURE, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHERE HE'S USING
  • 00:49:39.280 --> 00:49:41.260
  • THAT TO GAIN GROUND POLITICALLY.
  • 00:49:41.280 --> 00:49:43.270
  • TO ME, THIS IS WHAT I CAME AWAY WITH WITH GORBACHEV.
  • 00:49:43.290 --> 00:49:46.140
  • I CAME AWAY THAT HE WAS GIVING RELIGIOUS FREEDOM
  • 00:49:46.160 --> 00:49:49.270
  • OVER TO KEEP A DIALOGUE OPEN SO HE COULD SAVE
  • 00:49:49.290 --> 00:49:51.220
  • THE SOVIET UNION.
  • 00:49:51.240 --> 00:49:53.140
  • I THINK THIS WAS HIS MOTIVE, BUT HE DISTRIBUTE REALIZE
  • 00:49:53.160 --> 00:49:55.120
  • WHEN YOU GIVE PEOPLE RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, OR YOU
  • 00:49:55.140 --> 00:49:57.240
  • ALLOW THEM TO EXPERIENCE THEIR FAITH, IT'S GOING TO
  • 00:49:57.260 --> 00:49:59.240
  • RUN AMOK BECAUSE THERE'S NO --
  • 00:49:59.260 --> 00:50:01.210
  • - IN A GOOD WAY, RIGHT?
  • 00:50:01.230 --> 00:50:03.080
  • - IN A GOOD WAY. I DIDN'T SAY SUCK, DID I?
  • 00:50:03.100 --> 00:50:05.000
  • [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:50:05.020 --> 00:50:06.280
  • I DID, I'M SORRY. OH, THAT'S A MICROPHONE, NO.
  • 00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:08.170
  • - AND IT'S ON.
  • 00:50:08.190 --> 00:50:10.250
  • [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:50:10.270 --> 00:50:12.130
  • - BOB?
  • 00:50:12.150 --> 00:50:13.140
  • [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:50:13.160 --> 00:50:15.050
  • I LOVE THE BOB PART.
  • 00:50:15.070 --> 00:50:17.080
  • BUT MY POINT IS IT'S LIKE YOU CAN'T SAY THAT PART OF
  • 00:50:17.100 --> 00:50:19.170
  • YOU WILL BE FREE, OR THIS PART.
  • 00:50:19.190 --> 00:50:21.200
  • IT'S JUST GOING TO PICK UP STEAM AND KEEP GOING.
  • 00:50:21.220 --> 00:50:24.030
  • SO I THINK HE SAID, LOOK, GIVE LITHUANIA SOME FREEDOM,
  • 00:50:24.050 --> 00:50:26.290
  • POLAND, AND WHATEVER, BUT THEN HE JUST LOST CONTROL.
  • 00:50:27.010 --> 00:50:29.120
  • THEY'RE ON THE STREETS.
  • 00:50:29.140 --> 00:50:31.020
  • - IT'S LIKE LIGHTING THE SPARK.
  • 00:50:31.040 --> 00:50:32.140
  • - DRIED LEAVES. - POOR GUY.
  • 00:50:32.160 --> 00:50:33.290
  • - SO WHAT DID YOU FIND IN THIS STORY THAT YOU CAN
  • 00:50:34.010 --> 00:50:35.250
  • REVEAL AS SOMETHING NEW?
  • 00:50:35.270 --> 00:50:37.120
  • - I THINK JOHN PAUL.
  • 00:50:37.140 --> 00:50:39.110
  • THERE'S A FEW THINGS, BUT IF YOU'RE SAYING HIT IT ON THE
  • 00:50:39.130 --> 00:50:42.020
  • TARGET, I'D SAY THAT JOHN PAUL THE SECOND BEING A 20TH
  • 00:50:42.040 --> 00:50:44.240
  • CENTURY FIGURE, AND OUTSIDE OF HIS RELIGIOUS CALLING WAS
  • 00:50:44.260 --> 00:50:47.270
  • ACTUALLY A MORAL PHILOSOPHER WHO HAD TO DIALOGUE WITH THE
  • 00:50:47.290 --> 00:50:50.170
  • TOP GERMAN PHILOSOPHERS LIKE MARTIN HEIDEGGER AND
  • 00:50:50.190 --> 00:50:53.220
  • PHENOMENOLOGISTS OF HIS TIME, WHATEVER.
  • 00:50:53.240 --> 00:50:55.270
  • I THINK HE WAS FORGING AND TRANSFORMING THE TRADITIONAL
  • 00:50:55.290 --> 00:50:59.130
  • MESSAGE OF CHRIST ALL THE WAY BACK IN TIME, LIKE A
  • 00:50:59.150 --> 00:51:01.230
  • PAUL, LIKE A MODERN PAUL, BUT TRYING TO PUT IT IN NEW
  • 00:51:01.250 --> 00:51:04.170
  • CATEGORIES USING HIS ACTING BACKGROUND AND HIS
  • 00:51:04.190 --> 00:51:07.170
  • PHILOSOPHY TO ACTUALLY TRANSFORM IT FOR
  • 00:51:07.190 --> 00:51:11.000
  • THE MODERN WORLD. HE WAS A YOUTH MINISTER.
  • 00:51:11.020 --> 00:51:13.100
  • HE FELT AS THOUGH, LET'S FACE IT, KIDS GOT MARRIED
  • 00:51:13.120 --> 00:51:16.060
  • WHEN THEY WERE LIKE 14 AND 16 YEARS OLD.
  • 00:51:16.080 --> 00:51:18.240
  • HE HAD A YOUTH MINISTRY, AND HE KNEW THEIR STRUGGLES, AND
  • 00:51:18.260 --> 00:51:21.110
  • HE DIDN'T WANT TO JUST SAY, DON'T DO IT, DON'T DO IT
  • 00:51:21.130 --> 00:51:23.100
  • LIKE THE OLD CHURCH WOULD HAVE DONE.
  • 00:51:23.120 --> 00:51:25.010
  • HE WAS TRYING TO TEACH THEM WHY NATURAL LAW IS PART OF
  • 00:51:25.030 --> 00:51:27.230
  • THEIR LIVES, AND THEY ARE AFFECTION.
  • 00:51:27.250 --> 00:51:29.260
  • HAD HE A GIRLFRIEND BEFORE HE BECAME A PRIEST.
  • 00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:31.270
  • SO HE UNDERSTOOD THE PHYSICAL PART OF LIFE, AND
  • 00:51:31.290 --> 00:51:35.130
  • HE TRIED TO INCORPORATE IT INTO A HOLISTIC WAY OF
  • 00:51:35.150 --> 00:51:37.270
  • LOOKING AT THE WORLD.
  • 00:51:37.290 --> 00:51:39.250
  • HE OFFERED SOMETHING THAT I THINK IS SO FRESH AND NEW
  • 00:51:39.270 --> 00:51:42.010
  • THAT I DON'T THINK THERE'S MANY PLACES YOU COULD FIND
  • 00:51:42.030 --> 00:51:44.070
  • THAT WHERE IT'S THE DIGNITY OF THE HUMAN BEING, IT'S THE
  • 00:51:44.090 --> 00:51:46.230
  • FREEDOM FOR ALL. IT'S AN INTERFAITH DIALOGUE.
  • 00:51:46.250 --> 00:51:49.200
  • IT'S STILL BASED AND ROOTED IN GOOD THEOLOGY AND
  • 00:51:49.220 --> 00:51:52.090
  • CHRISTIANITY AND THE BIBLE, BUT IT'S BEING TRANSFORMED
  • 00:51:52.110 --> 00:51:55.010
  • AS AN OUTREACH TO OTHERS.
  • 00:51:55.030 --> 00:51:56.240
  • I THINK THAT'S THE APOSTLE PAUL.
  • 00:51:56.260 --> 00:51:58.060
  • THAT'S THOMAS AQUINAS.
  • 00:51:58.080 --> 00:51:59.260
  • SO WHEN I FOUND THAT HE HAD THAT LEVEL OF COMPLEXITY AND
  • 00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:02.120
  • THAT RICHNESS IN HIS OUT REACH, BUT THE FACE OF IT
  • 00:52:02.140 --> 00:52:05.140
  • WAS MERCY, IT WAS THE THEOLOGY OF THE CROSS, THAT
  • 00:52:05.160 --> 00:52:08.250
  • MADE ME SAY, WHOA, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT.
  • 00:52:08.270 --> 00:52:11.160
  • I WOULD HAVE NEVER KNOWN THAT UNLESS I DID THE FILM.
  • 00:52:11.180 --> 00:52:13.200
  • SO THAT WAS REALLY I THINK THE THING THAT
  • 00:52:13.220 --> 00:52:15.100
  • CAPTURED ME THE MOST.
  • 00:52:15.120 --> 00:52:17.040
  • - SO I'M CONFLICTED A LITTLE BIT IN SHOWING THE
  • 00:52:17.060 --> 00:52:20.070
  • PICTURE THAT I HAVE WITH POPE JOHN PAUL ONLY BECAUSE
  • 00:52:20.090 --> 00:52:23.110
  • I HAD GIANT HAIR BACK THEN, BUT I THINK WE'LL GO
  • 00:52:23.130 --> 00:52:26.050
  • AHEAD AND DO IT.
  • 00:52:26.070 --> 00:52:27.180
  • - YOU DO IT FINE.
  • 00:52:27.200 --> 00:52:29.150
  • - WHEN HE SHOOK MY HAND AND HEARD MY AMERICAN ACCENT,
  • 00:52:29.170 --> 00:52:33.110
  • THEN HIS ACCENT SPUN EXACTLY, AND HE WAS ABLE TO
  • 00:52:33.130 --> 00:52:36.250
  • SPEAK IN ENGLISH WITH MUCH LESS OF AN ACCENT WHEN HE
  • 00:52:36.270 --> 00:52:41.200
  • KNEW HE WAS SPEAKING TO AN AMERICAN.
  • 00:52:41.220 --> 00:52:43.220
  • IT WAS REALLY KIND OF AN INTERESTING THING, AND I HAD
  • 00:52:43.240 --> 00:52:46.040
  • THE OPPORTUNITY TO MEET HIM WITH MY FATHER ONE DAY,
  • 00:52:46.060 --> 00:52:48.030
  • AND I'M GOING TO CALL THAT -- BOB?
  • 00:52:48.050 --> 00:52:51.220
  • 1985, '86, YEAH, IN ITALY.
  • 00:52:51.240 --> 00:52:57.060
  • OKAY, AND WHAT DID THIS TAKING ON THIS STORY DID FOR
  • 00:52:57.080 --> 00:53:03.140
  • YOU PERSONALLY?
  • 00:53:03.160 --> 00:53:06.020
  • - I SAID THIS AT THE WHITE HOUSE WHEN WE SCREENED THIS
  • 00:53:06.040 --> 00:53:08.230
  • AT THE WHITE HOUSE THAT WHEN YOU'RE SITTING THERE ON THE
  • 00:53:08.250 --> 00:53:10.280
  • -- I'M IN THE GREEN ROOM AT THE WHITE HOUSE.
  • 00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:12.260
  • YOU CAN IMAGINE WHO'S COMING, NEWT GINGRICH AND
  • 00:53:12.280 --> 00:53:15.150
  • THE AMBASSADOR'S WIFE IS THERE AND LARRY KUDLOW, AND
  • 00:53:15.170 --> 00:53:18.230
  • THE ROOM IS PACKED WITH PEOPLE AND DIPLOMATS AND ALL
  • 00:53:18.250 --> 00:53:21.070
  • THE OUTREACH PEOPLE TO THE GOVERNMENT.
  • 00:53:21.090 --> 00:53:23.050
  • YOU'RE IN THE CENTER OF POWER, THE MONUMENT IS
  • 00:53:23.070 --> 00:53:24.270
  • OUTSIDE, AND I'M THINKING, MY GOSH.
  • 00:53:24.290 --> 00:53:26.150
  • SO EVEN AT THAT POINT, I FELT LIKE EVEN A FILM
  • 00:53:26.170 --> 00:53:29.240
  • MAKER'S EGO WAS GOING TO GIVE WAY TO THE LEVEL -- TO
  • 00:53:29.260 --> 00:53:32.250
  • BE PUT IN SUCH A POSITION, YOU GET WHAT I'M SAYING?
  • 00:53:32.270 --> 00:53:35.220
  • IT'S LIKE AREN'T YOU REALLY COOL THE WAY I PUT THE
  • 00:53:35.240 --> 00:53:37.160
  • CAMERA OVER HERE OR THE LIGHTS?
  • 00:53:37.180 --> 00:53:39.060
  • AND I'M LIKE, I'M IN THE CENTER OF THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
  • 00:53:39.080 --> 00:53:41.180
  • - YEAH, THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THAT.
  • 00:53:41.200 --> 00:53:43.070
  • - YEAH, NO, YEAH YEAH.
  • 00:53:43.090 --> 00:53:45.020
  • - I NOTICED. - I CARE!
  • 00:53:45.040 --> 00:53:47.000
  • - THANK YOU, AND THANK YOU.
  • 00:53:47.020 --> 00:53:50.140
  • - I DON'T.
  • 00:53:50.160 --> 00:53:52.080
  • - BOB, DO YOU CARE? DOES BOB CARE?
  • 00:53:52.100 --> 00:53:53.250
  • NO, BUT YOU THINK BEING THERE AT MOMENT, IT WAS THE
  • 00:53:53.270 --> 00:53:55.220
  • FIRST TIME -- AND IT SOUNDS LIKE WHEN YOU SAY THIS, IT'S
  • 00:53:55.240 --> 00:53:57.070
  • CASUAL I'M THROWING IT OUT THERE, BUT I FELT LIKE HE
  • 00:53:57.090 --> 00:53:59.170
  • WENT FROM BEING LIKE A FILM-DRIVEN AMBITIOUS, AND
  • 00:53:59.190 --> 00:54:02.270
  • COMING FROM FAITH TO INSPIRATION FOR SURE, BUT I
  • 00:54:02.290 --> 00:54:05.050
  • CAME MORE OF AN AMBASSADOR BECAUSE THE FILM EMBODIES
  • 00:54:05.070 --> 00:54:08.070
  • IDEA THAT I THINK ARE ETERNAL.
  • 00:54:08.090 --> 00:54:10.110
  • THEY GO BEYOND MY FILM AND THESE
  • 00:54:10.130 --> 00:54:12.190
  • CHARACTER, MUCH BIGGER.
  • 00:54:12.210 --> 00:54:14.180
  • SO I STARTED TO SAY, LOOK, YOU BETTER BACK OFF A LITTLE
  • 00:54:14.200 --> 00:54:17.010
  • BIT AND KEEP YOUR EAR OPEN AND START MEETING GOOD
  • 00:54:17.030 --> 00:54:18.180
  • PEOPLE AND JUST SAYING, WOULD YOU PLEASE
  • 00:54:18.200 --> 00:54:20.060
  • COME BUY MY TICKETS?
  • 00:54:20.080 --> 00:54:21.230
  • OR LET ME ON YOUR SHOW SO I CAN TELL YOU WHAT HAPPENED?
  • 00:54:21.250 --> 00:54:23.280
  • BUT I WENT BACK, AND I THINK I WAS BEING TAUGHT MY LESSON
  • 00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:27.090
  • AND MY DIVINE PLAN ABOUT WHERE I FIT INTO
  • 00:54:27.110 --> 00:54:29.080
  • THIS WHOLE SCHEME OF THINGS.
  • 00:54:29.100 --> 00:54:30.210
  • - THAT'S INTERESTING.
  • 00:54:30.230 --> 00:54:32.050
  • - IT'S HUMBLING ISN'T IT? EVEN THOUGH IT COULD BE A --
  • 00:54:32.070 --> 00:54:34.270
  • - BUT THERE'S A LIBERATION IN THE HUMILITY.
  • 00:54:34.290 --> 00:54:36.140
  • DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?
  • 00:54:36.160 --> 00:54:37.250
  • - YES.
  • 00:54:37.270 --> 00:54:39.110
  • - IT'S LIKE, AT SOME POINT, THAT'S TOO HARD.
  • 00:54:39.130 --> 00:54:40.230
  • YOU TAKE IT, YOU TAKE IT FROM HERE.
  • 00:54:40.250 --> 00:54:42.020
  • - YOU GIVE IT OVER TO GOD NOW.
  • 00:54:42.040 --> 00:54:43.280
  • - YOU CAN THAT HE WILL SOMEBODY THAT IS A STORY
  • 00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:46.000
  • TELLER WROTE THIS BOOK BECAUSE THE TWO MAIN
  • 00:54:46.020 --> 00:54:49.090
  • CHARACTER AND TWO BULLET HOLE ARE IN THE
  • 00:54:49.110 --> 00:54:52.150
  • COVER OF YOUR BOOK.
  • 00:54:52.170 --> 00:54:54.070
  • THE ATTEMPT TO STOP THIS DIVINE PLAN HAPPENED WITH AN
  • 00:54:54.090 --> 00:55:01.020
  • ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT OF RONALD REAGAN AND POPE JOHN
  • 00:55:01.040 --> 00:55:04.040
  • PAUL WITHIN SIX WEEK OF EACH OTHER AND WHOEVER AND
  • 00:55:04.060 --> 00:55:07.140
  • WHATEVER FORCES WERE TRYING TO STOP THIS PLAN REALLY HAD
  • 00:55:07.160 --> 00:55:15.090
  • A BAD DAY WHEN RONALD REAGAN AND POPE JOHN PAUL GOT
  • 00:55:15.110 --> 00:55:18.100
  • TOGETHER KNOWING THEIR LIVES THIS BEEN SPARED TO DO
  • 00:55:18.120 --> 00:55:21.290
  • SOMETHING BECAUSE WE SAID AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS,
  • 00:55:22.010 --> 00:55:24.100
  • WE GREW UP IN A DIFFERENT WORLD.
  • 00:55:24.120 --> 00:55:26.160
  • THE PEOPLE THAT ARE GROWING UP, THE YOUNG CHILDREN THAT
  • 00:55:26.180 --> 00:55:29.080
  • ARE IN SCHOOL RIGHT NOW, LET'S NOT HAVE A DEBATE THE
  • 00:55:29.100 --> 00:55:32.270
  • LAST TWO MINUTES OF THIS SHOW ABOUT THE CURRENT 2019
  • 00:55:32.290 --> 00:55:36.290
  • VERSION OF GEOPOLITICS BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES
  • 00:55:37.010 --> 00:55:41.040
  • AND RUSSIA. LET'S NOT DO THAT.
  • 00:55:41.060 --> 00:55:43.020
  • - THE DRAMA WE COULD COME UP WITH.
  • 00:55:43.040 --> 00:55:46.140
  • - WE CAN'T DO THAT? TWO MINUTES.
  • 00:55:46.160 --> 00:55:48.090
  • - I WON'T NEED BOB ON THAT ONE.
  • 00:55:48.110 --> 00:55:49.250
  • [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:55:49.270 --> 00:55:51.160
  • - BUT THE IDEA THAT THEY GOT TOGETHER AND WERE ABLE
  • 00:55:51.180 --> 00:55:55.210
  • TO SAY, YOU ALMOST DIED, AND I ALMOST DIED, AND WE'RE
  • 00:55:55.230 --> 00:56:00.100
  • ALIVE, AND WE'RE TOGETHER.
  • 00:56:00.120 --> 00:56:02.150
  • LET'S GO DO SOMETHING AMAZING, AND THAT HAPPENED.
  • 00:56:02.170 --> 00:56:04.170
  • - GRATITUDE, GRATITUDE, RIGHT? GRATITUDE.
  • 00:56:04.190 --> 00:56:08.170
  • - ABSOLUTELY.
  • 00:56:08.190 --> 00:56:10.090
  • - STOP AND SMELL THE FLOWERS.
  • 00:56:10.110 --> 00:56:12.040
  • - THE TOP OF THIS BOOK SAYS "JOHN PAUL THE PAUL THE
  • 00:56:12.060 --> 00:56:15.090
  • SECOND, RONALD REAGAN AND THE DRAMATIC END OF THE COLD
  • 00:56:15.110 --> 00:56:17.220
  • WAR." WE ALL KNOW THE END OF THE STORY, BUT THIS
  • 00:56:17.240 --> 00:56:20.120
  • FRIENDSHIP THAT YOU DETAIL WILL BE IN THEATERS, AND IT
  • 00:56:20.140 --> 00:56:24.070
  • WILL BE IN THEATERS ONLY NOVEMBER 6TH.
  • 00:56:24.090 --> 00:56:28.260
  • AND THE DIVINE PLAN, YOU GET THE LAST 30
  • 00:56:28.280 --> 00:56:32.160
  • SECONDS HERE, ROBERT.
  • 00:56:32.180 --> 00:56:35.290
  • - I THINK THE COMBINATION OF THE -- YOU JUST READ THE
  • 00:56:36.010 --> 00:56:37.250
  • SUBTITLE THERE.
  • 00:56:37.270 --> 00:56:39.160
  • BUT THE IDEA OF COMBINING THE IDEA THAT BEFORE YOU GET
  • 00:56:39.180 --> 00:56:41.160
  • TO THE POLITICS IN LIFE, BEFORE YOU GET TO THE
  • 00:56:41.180 --> 00:56:43.240
  • RELIGIOUS DENOMINATIONS, THAT WE ALL ARE HUMAN
  • 00:56:43.260 --> 00:56:47.100
  • BEINGS, A LOT OF COMPLEXITY, A LOT OF SUBJECTIVITY.
  • 00:56:47.120 --> 00:56:50.190
  • WE'RE ALL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO WE ARE IN LIGHT OF
  • 00:56:50.210 --> 00:56:52.200
  • GOD AND IN LIGHT OF OUR BELIEFS, AND I THINK THE
  • 00:56:52.220 --> 00:56:55.170
  • DRAMATIC STORY IS A WAY, A GROUND WE CAN ALL MEET ON
  • 00:56:55.190 --> 00:56:58.140
  • BECAUSE IT'S A METAPHOR FOR LIFE.
  • 00:56:58.160 --> 00:56:59.240
  • WE HAVE A SCRIPT.
  • 00:56:59.260 --> 00:57:01.230
  • WE HAVE A PART, BUT AN ACTOR STILL HAS TO EXPRESS IT.
  • 00:57:01.250 --> 00:57:04.060
  • AND AS YOU GUYS KNOW, IN FILM, DIRECTING IS ALL ABOUT
  • 00:57:04.080 --> 00:57:07.010
  • CHOICES BECAUSE YOU COULD READ THE SAME WORDS BUT IT'S
  • 00:57:07.030 --> 00:57:09.270
  • THE CHOICE YOU MAKE IN THAT MOMENT, AND IF YOU THINK
  • 00:57:09.290 --> 00:57:13.080
  • ABOUT THAT AS A METAPHOR FOR LIFE, THESE WERE TRAINED MEN
  • 00:57:13.100 --> 00:57:16.240
  • WHEN KNEW HOW TO DO THAT PROFESSIONALLY, BUT
  • 00:57:16.260 --> 00:57:18.220
  • ULTIMATELY, THEY KNEW HOW IT HAVE A PRESENCE, HOW TO READ
  • 00:57:18.240 --> 00:57:21.020
  • THE ROOM, HOW TO READ WHO YOU'RE TALKING
  • 00:57:21.040 --> 00:57:23.110
  • TO IN AN AUDIENCE.
  • 00:57:23.130 --> 00:57:25.020
  • AND DON'T FORGET, REAGAN DID THE GE, TRAVEL AND SPOKE TO
  • 00:57:25.040 --> 00:57:27.280
  • BASICALLY THE AVERAGE PERSON FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND
  • 00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:30.130
  • LEARNED THE BACK AND FORTH OF WHAT PEOPLE'S NEEDS ARE
  • 00:57:30.150 --> 00:57:32.060
  • AND BROKE DOWN AS LANGUAGE.
  • 00:57:32.080 --> 00:57:33.270
  • SO I WOULD SAY AGAIN THAT THE COMMON COMMISSION, THE
  • 00:57:33.290 --> 00:57:36.190
  • COMMON GROUND AND WHY I CALL THIS A MAINSTREAM FILM
  • 00:57:36.210 --> 00:57:39.110
  • THAT DIALOGUE WITH THE MAINSTREAM, BUT IT'S STILL
  • 00:57:39.130 --> 00:57:42.010
  • HAS THE FAITH COMPONENT OR IT'S OPEN TO IT IS BECAUSE
  • 00:57:42.030 --> 00:57:44.050
  • IT'S CENTERED IN THAT DRAMATIC STORY, NOT ON
  • 00:57:44.070 --> 00:57:46.200
  • WINNING A CAUSE OR AN ARGUMENT.
  • 00:57:46.220 --> 00:57:49.110
  • - WELL DONE, ROBERT ORLANDO.
  • 00:57:49.130 --> 00:57:51.030
  • - AND WE ALL HAVE A PART TO PLAY IN THIS DIVINE PLAN.
  • 00:57:51.050 --> 00:57:54.200
  • - WE'RE GOING TO END ON REFLECTING BACK ON RONALD
  • 00:57:54.220 --> 00:57:58.000
  • REAGAN AND JOHN PAUL FROM THE MOVIE "THE DIVINE PLAN."
  • 00:57:58.020 --> 00:58:03.150
  • NOVEMBER 6TH, WATCH THIS.
  • 00:58:03.170 --> 00:58:05.120
  • WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT TIME, BYE BYE.
  • 00:58:05.140 --> 00:58:08.080
  • - I CAN PUT IT NO BETTER THAN MRS. THATCHER IN HER
  • 00:58:08.100 --> 00:58:12.100
  • EULOGY TO RONALD REAGAN WHEN SHE SAID, "WE HAVE ONE
  • 00:58:12.120 --> 00:58:19.260
  • ADVANTAGE THAT RONALD REAGAN NEVER HAD.
  • 00:58:19.280 --> 00:58:25.190
  • WE HAVE HIS EXAMPLE."
  • 00:58:25.210 --> 00:58:32.060
  • - NARRATOR: LESS THAN A YEAR LATER IN APRIL, THE POPE DIED.
  • 00:58:32.080 --> 00:58:38.140
  • - ALL OF THOSE LESSONS AND TEACHINGS AND HOMILIES OF
  • 00:58:38.160 --> 00:58:42.090
  • JOHN PAUL THE SECOND, THEY REALLY MATTER.
  • 00:58:42.110 --> 00:58:44.250
  • HIS WORDS MATTER. HIS UNIQUENESS MATTERS.
  • 00:58:44.270 --> 00:58:47.200
  • I FEEL IN MY HEART THAT PEOPLE ARE REALLY HUNGRY OF
  • 00:58:47.220 --> 00:58:53.150
  • WISDOM, OF WORDS, OF PRESENTS, OF GESTURES AND
  • 00:58:53.170 --> 00:58:57.130
  • SMILE, OF JOHN PAUL THE SECOND.
  • 00:58:57.150 --> 00:59:00.090