Jim Scudder, Jr.: InGrace | TBN

Jim Scudder, Jr.: InGrace

Watch Jim Scudder, Jr.:  InGrace
October 1, 2019
27:29

Priceless Temple Treausre Found? Part 3

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Jim Scudder, Jr.: InGrace

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  • Jim Scudder Jr.: I'm Jim Scudder.
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  • Today on "InGrace," we are going to take you on an adventure to
  • 00:00:01.290 --> 00:00:05.040
  • tell you the story of the copper scroll treasure here in Qumran.
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  • Jim: Ever since I was a boy, I've been fascinated with
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  • God's creation.
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  • I'm traveling the planet to tell his story about his world.
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  • I'm Jim Scudder, Jr.
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  • Come with me on another exciting adventure.
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  • "InGrace."
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  • Jim: What began as a simple Facebook message
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  • from an author has become an international quest.
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  • When Shelley Neese, the writer of the adventurous book,
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  • "The Copper Scroll Project," contacted me, I was skeptical.
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  • But the more I read, the more I yearned
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  • for this incredible story to be true.
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  • I wanted Israel to be blessed, to be reconnected
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  • to the truth of Scripture to find her Messiah.
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  • We first interviewed Shelley at the impressive Museum
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  • of the Bible in front of a replica of the copper scroll
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  • and that led us to Dallas to talk to the man
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  • who may have at long last deciphered the copper scroll.
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  • After talking to Jim Barfield and Shelley Neese,
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  • we knew we had to go to Israel, to Qumran to see it again but
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  • this time in a whole new light.
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  • Our flight routed through Amman, Jordan.
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  • Jim: Here in Amman, Jordan, you can see the copper scroll
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  • today at the Jordan Museum.
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  • Jim: Once in Israel, a pilot friend of mine offered
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  • to fly me from Tel Aviv to see Qumran from the air.
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  • Of course I accepted.
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  • On the way, we flew right over the eternal capital of Israel,
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  • the city of gold, Jerusalem.
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  • As we flew from Jerusalem to Qumran,
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  • I was struck by how close together these two places were.
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  • Jim: Almost right below us right now right down there.
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  • Oh, is that awesome.
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  • What a treat.
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  • The ruins of Qumran.
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  • Jim: After we landed, we headed to another project
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  • we were filming: Shiloh.
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  • It was here that the tabernacle stood for over 300 years.
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  • While at the dig, I had a chance to interview the top authority
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  • of the Temple Mount, Archaeologist Leen Ritmeyer.
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  • I found out that some in the archaeological world have
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  • a low view of the copper scroll.
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  • Jim: Do you know anything about the current
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  • copper scroll research?
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  • Leen Ritmeyer: That's the greatest historical hoax
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  • of the 1st century, [speaking foreign language]
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  • Jim: So you don't believe it's legitimate?
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  • Leen: No.
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  • They'd be looking at all those places and nothing
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  • has ever been found.
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  • No, write it off as a hoax.
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  • Jim: Well, I really respect Dr. Ritmeyer.
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  • I'm also hoping in this one area he's wrong,
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  • but it did caution me to try to stay objective.
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  • Before heading to Qumran to meet up with Shelley Neese,
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  • we went to one of my favorite places: the Jewish Quarter
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  • in the old city of Jerusalem.
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  • Jim: On top of the retaining wall behind me,
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  • known as the Western Wall, would have stood the temple,
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  • and inside the Holy of Holies would have stood
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  • the Ark of the Covenant.
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  • The Ark of the Covenant is missing.
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  • It's very possible for someone to have been concerned about
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  • the temple treasures for them to take them and hide them
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  • away perhaps in Qumran.
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  • Jim: Just to the left of the Western Wall
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  • are the temple tunnels.
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  • These underground tunnels are extensive,
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  • showing the massive Korid stones
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  • of King Herod's temple foundations.
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  • Jim: We're still in the Western Wall tunnel system,
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  • but now we've come to an area where you have bedrock on both
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  • sides and this reminds me of the possibility of a cave or a
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  • tunnel system that could have led from Jerusalem all the way
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  • down to Qumran, large enough to be able
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  • to take temple treasures and hide them.
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  • Jim: The next morning we met Shelly Neese at the Jaffa Gate
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  • and made our way down to Qumran.
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  • Jim Barfield asked an Israeli tour operator named
  • 00:04:09.230 --> 00:04:12.220
  • Gilad Rosinger to meet us at Qumran.
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  • Gilad does special tours of Qumran in relation
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  • to the copper scroll treasure.
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  • Gilad Rosinger: To understand and even believe that this place
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  • could mean the literal transformation of the next stage
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  • of Israeli history, for me it's absolutely fascinating
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  • and exciting and so I spent every minute I can out here.
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  • Jim: After everything leading up to this moment,
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  • I couldn't wait to see Qumran again knowing what I know now.
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  • Shelley and I decided to see the hill of color,
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  • the mound that may hide a cave containing
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  • the Ark of the Covenant.
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  • Jim: I've been to Qumran so many times,
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  • Shelley, but never with the knowledge that I have now
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  • of what may be here, and what we're going to try
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  • to do is go over to this hill of color or the hill of--
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  • Shelley Neese: Which I imagine hasn't been
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  • on your previous tours as well?
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  • Jim: No, we never would have even thought to look at that,
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  • but--
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  • Shelley: Right.
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  • Although now you can hardly see anything else, right?
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  • Jim: Right. Yeah.
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  • And this site is the site that would be the least invasive
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  • to do that test dig to further that.
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  • And if something is found here, then it proves the whole theory
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  • that--and the rest of it is back in the actual Esin settlement
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  • and all the other locations are down in the ruins.
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  • But it's harder for an archaeologist to justify digging
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  • into ruins because they're significant,
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  • the ruins themselves.
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  • Shelley: And they've dug at Qumran down
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  • to the last level of habitation.
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  • So they really don't see--
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  • "I need to dig 9-feet boreholes."
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  • Jim: Right.
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  • And archaeologists don't do that.
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  • Shelley: No, they won't.
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  • Jim: They drain the bathtub.
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  • They usually go to bedrock, but maybe here they was just--
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  • it would be way too deep to bedrock,
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  • but the 2009 dig only went down about 3 feet.
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  • In Jim's estimation, what's the depth of these treasures?
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  • Shelley: Nine to twelve feet for--
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  • I mean, and it's not--that's everyone's estimation.
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  • Like, the one thing that is really easy to read
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  • in the copper scroll is the depths.
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  • And so they're all very deep.
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  • It's very clear that they were digging to hide things,
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  • not just to lightly cover; and they were digging to hide
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  • them for a decent amount of time.
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  • Jim: Well, let's walk over there and see what we find.
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  • Jim: Suddenly, a man's voice came blasting
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  • over the intercom from the office telling us to stop.
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  • male: Fine.
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  • Where are you heading for?
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  • Shelley: We wanted to look at that cave over there.
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  • Is that not possible?
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  • male: No, because first of all it's not on the path.
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  • So for you to know, there's nothing there.
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  • Another thing, we have dessert goats
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  • and this is their area.
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  • Also, because there's no path there.
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  • If something happens to you, your insurance
  • 00:06:58.090 --> 00:07:00.160
  • will not cover that.
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  • Jim: Disappointed that we couldn't walk over to the cave,
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  • we were able to talk about the hill of color from a distance.
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  • Jim: Shelley, behind us is the hill of color,
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  • the mound of red.
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  • What is it called and what could be there?
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  • Shelley: Right.
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  • So the traditional translation has been hill of Kolit,
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  • which a lot of people--there's proper place names in the copper
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  • scroll and that's really hard because where is that today?
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  • But the copper scroll doesn't have capitalization.
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  • So we really don't know when something's a proper name
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  • or it's just a common name.
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  • So the way Jim Barfield translates it is,
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  • Heap of Color or Red Heap.
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  • But if you look at it, you see--I mean,
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  • especially in this springtime when it would be greener out
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  • here, it's hot out here today, but it does stand out
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  • from the rest of its surroundings.
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  • And so there's other descriptions that are
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  • in the copper scroll that help identify this.
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  • It's not just because of its discoloration,
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  • but there does seem to be something different that makes
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  • it stand out, especially that we're not so far from Qumran
  • 00:07:57.080 --> 00:08:00.020
  • while we stand here.
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  • Jim: What does Jim think is here and what are the locations
  • 00:08:01.200 --> 00:08:05.240
  • on the copper scroll of this site?
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  • Shelley: The translation according to Jim's translation,
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  • which--you know, all copper scroll translations differ
  • 00:08:10.230 --> 00:08:13.040
  • a little, but this would even work for the most
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  • classic translations, which would be, to me,
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  • probably the Martinez translation.
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  • "In the Red Heap is the wine vessels of the gleaming chamber,
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  • the ephod and the entire tenth of the tithe of pouring vessels
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  • from the treasury."
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  • So right there you have the ephod,
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  • which is one of the most delightful things listed
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  • in all the copper scroll, and that's not just Jim Barfield's
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  • translation the ephod is in there.
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  • They are in every translation.
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  • In fact, in a Walter's one particular translation,
  • 00:08:43.230 --> 00:08:46.140
  • it has a yud behind it, and so, he's seeing that
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  • as saying my ephod, my priestly investment,
  • 00:08:49.030 --> 00:08:51.220
  • my breastplate of righteousness.
  • 00:08:51.230 --> 00:08:53.100
  • Perhaps a priest was the one inscribing the copper scroll.
  • 00:08:53.110 --> 00:08:56.030
  • So we know what wine vessels are in terms of ritual vessels
  • 00:08:56.040 --> 00:09:00.030
  • for the temple and for sacrificial worship,
  • 00:09:00.040 --> 00:09:02.020
  • and we know what the ephod is.
  • 00:09:02.030 --> 00:09:04.140
  • The question is, what is a gleaming chamber?
  • 00:09:04.150 --> 00:09:07.110
  • And for Jim Barfield, you know, you think about
  • 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:10.250
  • the Holy of Holies, you think about four walls,
  • 00:09:10.260 --> 00:09:14.060
  • solid gold and a lip menorah.
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  • The idea of a gleaming chamber seems like an apt description
  • 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:20.170
  • for what we think could possibly be in there in terms of temple
  • 00:09:20.180 --> 00:09:24.290
  • furniture, some pieces of the holy temple furniture
  • 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:28.110
  • or some pieces of the tabernacle furniture.
  • 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:30.120
  • Jim: Not only is this the most accessible and it might be
  • 00:09:31.030 --> 00:09:33.180
  • the most significant, and when you say gleaming chamber--
  • 00:09:33.190 --> 00:09:36.020
  • the most significant thing in the Holy of Holies
  • 00:09:36.030 --> 00:09:37.260
  • was the Ark of the Covenant and it is missing.
  • 00:09:37.270 --> 00:09:40.150
  • There are a lot of theories of where it might be.
  • 00:09:40.160 --> 00:09:43.110
  • Under the temple, some had said in Ethiopia.
  • 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:45.110
  • I don't think so.
  • 00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:46.210
  • But it's also very possible that it's here in this cave--
  • 00:09:46.220 --> 00:09:52.010
  • we believe a cave right there.
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  • Shelley: Absolutely.
  • 00:09:54.170 --> 00:09:55.260
  • Well--so there may be a lot of theories as to where the
  • 00:09:55.270 --> 00:09:57.290
  • Ark of the Covenant's final-- resting place is right now.
  • 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:01.160
  • What I think everyone could agree on is that
  • 00:10:01.170 --> 00:10:03.290
  • it's not destroyed, that it will come back
  • 00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:06.140
  • into Jewish history at some point.
  • 00:10:06.150 --> 00:10:08.030
  • Because, you know, the Jewish people,
  • 00:10:08.040 --> 00:10:09.180
  • they have a day, the night of--
  • 00:10:09.190 --> 00:10:11.040
  • that they mourn the loss of the temple.
  • 00:10:11.050 --> 00:10:14.040
  • There's mourning incorporated into lots of Jewish tradition
  • 00:10:14.050 --> 00:10:18.040
  • for the temple being destroyed; all of them.
  • 00:10:18.050 --> 00:10:20.030
  • And so there is no mourning day for the Ark of the Covenant.
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  • There's no day that suggests that this is the day
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  • that our ark was lost to us.
  • 00:10:25.230 --> 00:10:27.220
  • And so just that very lack of identification even on the
  • 00:10:27.230 --> 00:10:33.090
  • Jewish calendar as the day that the Ark of the Covenant,
  • 00:10:33.100 --> 00:10:35.280
  • the thing that imparted holiness to the Holy of Holies,
  • 00:10:35.290 --> 00:10:39.170
  • why its history ends pretty dramatically and quietly,
  • 00:10:39.180 --> 00:10:44.290
  • we don't know.
  • 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:46.100
  • So whether or not the Ark of the Covenant is part of the copper
  • 00:10:46.150 --> 00:10:48.260
  • scroll treasure, the copper scroll never explicitly says
  • 00:10:48.270 --> 00:10:51.040
  • Ark of the Covenant.
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  • That's true.
  • 00:10:52.150 --> 00:10:53.240
  • But whether or not the Ark of the Covenant is meant
  • 00:10:53.250 --> 00:10:56.090
  • to be found and will be found, I feel pretty confidently
  • 00:10:56.100 --> 00:10:58.190
  • that God will eventually let that come to light.
  • 00:10:58.200 --> 00:11:02.180
  • Jim: It just seems weird that this was founded in 1952,
  • 00:11:02.190 --> 00:11:06.110
  • the copper scroll, and you know, took a little bit of time to
  • 00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:09.100
  • open and translate, but it's been out there for so many years
  • 00:11:09.110 --> 00:11:12.190
  • and some people have looked.
  • 00:11:12.200 --> 00:11:14.040
  • But for someone that never been to Israel to all of a sudden
  • 00:11:14.050 --> 00:11:18.030
  • start to look at it, he happened to have a satellite map or
  • 00:11:18.040 --> 00:11:20.080
  • overview map of Qumran, it just seems so odd
  • 00:11:20.090 --> 00:11:24.100
  • and I think some of the archaeologists point that out.
  • 00:11:24.110 --> 00:11:26.140
  • There's no way that a non-trained person could
  • 00:11:26.150 --> 00:11:30.000
  • possibly make this discovery.
  • 00:11:30.010 --> 00:11:31.190
  • But, again, if this is true and this is God's timing,
  • 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:35.200
  • it just took the plan of God.
  • 00:11:35.210 --> 00:11:38.150
  • Shelley: And it just matches the way that everything
  • 00:11:38.160 --> 00:11:40.060
  • in the Bible has worked, right?
  • 00:11:40.070 --> 00:11:41.170
  • You know, that it would be the ready shepherd boy
  • 00:11:41.180 --> 00:11:43.070
  • that would be Israel's favorite king.
  • 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:45.090
  • To me too it just matches the script.
  • 00:11:45.100 --> 00:11:47.280
  • It matches--if it is an arson investigator from Oklahoma
  • 00:11:47.290 --> 00:11:50.210
  • that's been selected to do this, it matches God's script.
  • 00:11:50.220 --> 00:11:54.150
  • So, you know--
  • 00:11:54.160 --> 00:11:55.260
  • Jim: And this arson investigator somehow pulls
  • 00:11:55.270 --> 00:11:57.180
  • together a Knesset member, the metal detection scan
  • 00:11:57.190 --> 00:12:01.010
  • of these sites that was done covertly.
  • 00:12:01.020 --> 00:12:04.240
  • He had immunity.
  • 00:12:04.250 --> 00:12:06.060
  • So he felt like he could do it and did it.
  • 00:12:06.070 --> 00:12:08.060
  • What was here?
  • 00:12:08.070 --> 00:12:09.240
  • Shelley: Yes.
  • 00:12:09.250 --> 00:12:11.040
  • This is always the part that feels weird for me
  • 00:12:11.050 --> 00:12:12.140
  • to talk about.
  • 00:12:12.150 --> 00:12:13.240
  • For years, you know, it was the secret that we kept bottled up,
  • 00:12:13.250 --> 00:12:15.240
  • but now the smoke is out of the bottle.
  • 00:12:15.250 --> 00:12:18.140
  • So yes--and Moshe Feiglin, the member of Knesset,
  • 00:12:18.150 --> 00:12:21.180
  • he did have immunity.
  • 00:12:21.190 --> 00:12:23.010
  • I verified that in lots of sources.
  • 00:12:23.020 --> 00:12:24.200
  • We didn't--I didn't necessarily want to know if he did
  • 00:12:24.210 --> 00:12:26.230
  • or didn't at the time, but-- so Jim Barfield was out here
  • 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:29.270
  • with Chris Knight and Moshe Feiglin, and Moshe Feiglin
  • 00:12:29.280 --> 00:12:34.000
  • he even brought his son.
  • 00:12:34.010 --> 00:12:35.100
  • He wanted his son to see the importance of Qumran.
  • 00:12:35.110 --> 00:12:37.240
  • And so they did.
  • 00:12:37.250 --> 00:12:39.100
  • They scanned--I'll show you some sites in Qumran.
  • 00:12:39.110 --> 00:12:41.250
  • But they scanned the cave which--to scan in Qumran,
  • 00:12:41.260 --> 00:12:47.040
  • you know, the chances of getting a false positive would be much
  • 00:12:47.050 --> 00:12:50.060
  • stronger, you know, picking up rebar or some kind of like
  • 00:12:50.070 --> 00:12:53.250
  • human presence.
  • 00:12:53.260 --> 00:12:55.160
  • There's really no reason why there should be any kind
  • 00:12:55.170 --> 00:12:58.190
  • of metal detection out here.
  • 00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:01.080
  • And so they scanned the northern edge,
  • 00:13:01.090 --> 00:13:03.120
  • they scanned--I mean, it was a little hard to--from
  • 00:13:03.130 --> 00:13:05.140
  • what I understand to be able to position the 6-foot coil.
  • 00:13:05.150 --> 00:13:09.090
  • It's a very large coil for this metal detector
  • 00:13:09.100 --> 00:13:11.250
  • and to be able to drag it.
  • 00:13:11.260 --> 00:13:13.110
  • You know, ideally it would be more of a smooth surface.
  • 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:15.190
  • It's rocky out here.
  • 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:16.290
  • But Jim Barfield had been working with this scanner
  • 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:19.160
  • for--he wanted to do everything to make sure that
  • 00:13:19.170 --> 00:13:22.190
  • he didn't get a false positive.
  • 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:24.110
  • So he had already mapped out where he would scan.
  • 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:26.050
  • And so they did and they--
  • 00:13:26.060 --> 00:13:27.250
  • I mean, I wouldn't even say they got a positive read.
  • 00:13:27.260 --> 00:13:30.150
  • That's really understating what happened.
  • 00:13:30.160 --> 00:13:33.020
  • They got a positive read that something very large
  • 00:13:33.030 --> 00:13:39.000
  • and nonferrous, meaning gold, silver,
  • 00:13:39.010 --> 00:13:40.230
  • bronze, is buried deep underground.
  • 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:43.190
  • Jim: Well, let me just tell you this.
  • 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:45.040
  • That whether or not it's here, the treasure is here--
  • 00:13:45.050 --> 00:13:48.090
  • again, we don't know.
  • 00:13:48.100 --> 00:13:49.210
  • I guess one day if it's not, it's not.
  • 00:13:49.220 --> 00:13:51.290
  • If it is, it is.
  • 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:53.090
  • It's still a really good book.
  • 00:13:53.100 --> 00:13:54.190
  • You're going to learn a lot about Israel.
  • 00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:55.290
  • You're going to learn a lot about history
  • 00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:57.190
  • and the importance of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
  • 00:13:57.200 --> 00:13:58.290
  • It's an awesome book. It's an awesome read.
  • 00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:01.140
  • Get Shelley's book, "The Copper Scroll Project."
  • 00:14:01.150 --> 00:14:04.000
  • Jim: This treasure is incredible,
  • 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:12.030
  • but we couldn't possibly fit everything
  • 00:14:12.040 --> 00:14:14.110
  • into a half-hour TV show.
  • 00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:16.100
  • So you're going to need to get Shelley Neese's book,
  • 00:14:16.110 --> 00:14:18.220
  • "The Copper Scroll Project."
  • 00:14:18.230 --> 00:14:20.140
  • It's an awesome read.
  • 00:14:20.150 --> 00:14:22.020
  • And you need to get, "The Copper Scroll" DVD,
  • 00:14:22.030 --> 00:14:25.070
  • where we have all the information on where these
  • 00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:27.290
  • priceless temple treasures are located.
  • 00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:30.220
  • And when you give to "InGrace," it helps us to keep bringing you
  • 00:14:30.230 --> 00:14:33.260
  • some great Christian television.
  • 00:14:33.270 --> 00:14:37.130
  • male announcer: Discover the location
  • 00:14:37.140 --> 00:14:38.260
  • of priceless temple treasure.
  • 00:14:38.270 --> 00:14:40.240
  • For your gift today, you can receive "The Copper Scroll"
  • 00:14:40.250 --> 00:14:43.240
  • book or DVD series.
  • 00:14:43.250 --> 00:14:45.230
  • For gifts of $35 or more, we'll send you our temple treasure
  • 00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:49.210
  • bundle featuring the book, "The Copper Scroll Project,"
  • 00:14:49.220 --> 00:14:53.090
  • from author Shelley Neese, and there's three-part
  • 00:14:53.100 --> 00:14:55.170
  • full length DVD series.
  • 00:14:55.180 --> 00:14:57.140
  • Call 800-78-GRACE or visit ingrace.tv to order today.
  • 00:14:57.150 --> 00:15:03.020
  • Jim: And location number one, and this is what started it all
  • 00:15:09.180 --> 00:15:13.160
  • with Jim at least.
  • 00:15:13.170 --> 00:15:14.270
  • Shelley: Right. Exactly.
  • 00:15:14.280 --> 00:15:16.070
  • So when he's looking at the copper scroll and he sees
  • 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:18.090
  • it starts off under the ruins in the valley of Acor.
  • 00:15:18.100 --> 00:15:22.020
  • And when he sees that, he takes it as the preamble
  • 00:15:22.030 --> 00:15:24.080
  • for everything that's to follow.
  • 00:15:24.090 --> 00:15:26.010
  • Jim: And that's where other people have--
  • 00:15:26.020 --> 00:15:27.250
  • maybe went the wrong direction.
  • 00:15:27.260 --> 00:15:29.230
  • They thought that was location one's preamble,
  • 00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:31.190
  • but that might--Jim said that's the preamble for everything.
  • 00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:35.160
  • So everything's under the ruins of the valley of Acor.
  • 00:15:35.170 --> 00:15:37.140
  • Shelley: Right.
  • 00:15:37.150 --> 00:15:38.240
  • Which given where the copper scroll was found
  • 00:15:38.250 --> 00:15:40.040
  • would also just be sensical.
  • 00:15:40.050 --> 00:15:41.140
  • Jim: Less than a mile this direction, cave three.
  • 00:15:41.150 --> 00:15:43.160
  • Shelley: Exactly.
  • 00:15:43.170 --> 00:15:45.040
  • So it's basically saying,
  • 00:15:45.050 --> 00:15:46.190
  • "The most important ruins closest to here,
  • 00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:48.040
  • go look there."
  • 00:15:48.050 --> 00:15:49.230
  • And the next description is stairs leading to the east--
  • 00:15:49.240 --> 00:15:53.160
  • or steps leading to the east 40 cubits.
  • 00:15:53.170 --> 00:15:55.250
  • So that was so specific that Jim thought,
  • 00:15:55.260 --> 00:15:58.220
  • "Well, if Qumran is the most obvious ruins in
  • 00:15:58.230 --> 00:16:01.180
  • the valley of Acor or at least the most famous ones,
  • 00:16:01.190 --> 00:16:04.140
  • I'll be able to put this aside if there are no steps leading
  • 00:16:04.150 --> 00:16:08.180
  • to the east 40 cubits."
  • 00:16:08.190 --> 00:16:10.010
  • And so he puts the map of Qumran to a compass basically
  • 00:16:10.020 --> 00:16:13.170
  • or to a cardinal map and he sees that these steps
  • 00:16:13.180 --> 00:16:16.000
  • face 90 degrees to the east.
  • 00:16:16.010 --> 00:16:18.270
  • Now, the real trick would be if they measured 40 cubits.
  • 00:16:18.280 --> 00:16:22.030
  • A cubit is approximately 50 centimeters,
  • 00:16:22.040 --> 00:16:25.120
  • and he was able to find a recently published Israel
  • 00:16:25.130 --> 00:16:29.070
  • Antiquities Authority document saying that these steps
  • 00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:33.180
  • were exactly 19 meters, 19 meters translating
  • 00:16:33.190 --> 00:16:37.150
  • to exactly 40 cubits.
  • 00:16:37.160 --> 00:16:39.070
  • So when you find steps facing eastward that measured exactly
  • 00:16:39.080 --> 00:16:41.080
  • 40 cubits, that just seems too big to be a coincidence.
  • 00:16:41.090 --> 00:16:44.090
  • Jim: And that was 5 minutes.
  • 00:16:44.100 --> 00:16:45.290
  • I mean, it was right at the beginning and he go,
  • 00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:47.180
  • "Oh, well, that was easy."
  • 00:16:47.190 --> 00:16:49.040
  • Shelley: This is location two in the copper scroll.
  • 00:16:51.020 --> 00:16:54.100
  • This is a very long description.
  • 00:16:54.110 --> 00:16:56.200
  • You know, the copper scroll isn't riveting reading
  • 00:16:56.210 --> 00:16:59.260
  • as you may have already learned.
  • 00:16:59.270 --> 00:17:01.290
  • It's always written very dryly and like you found someone's
  • 00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:05.040
  • old grocery list, but says, "Accommodated in the built mound
  • 00:17:05.050 --> 00:17:08.220
  • of the dry cistern is gold, in the dry fountain of the great
  • 00:17:08.230 --> 00:17:12.070
  • ruin courtyard of the peristyle.
  • 00:17:12.080 --> 00:17:14.130
  • In the soft mire is hidden polished gold.
  • 00:17:14.140 --> 00:17:17.120
  • In front of the highest opening are 900 talents."
  • 00:17:17.130 --> 00:17:20.210
  • So remember, we have 40 silver talents
  • 00:17:20.220 --> 00:17:23.000
  • at the double entry mikvah.
  • 00:17:23.010 --> 00:17:24.150
  • This is a large amount of gold, which you can see,
  • 00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:29.160
  • it would have been an easy place to bury.
  • 00:17:29.170 --> 00:17:31.120
  • We're not far from where the treasury would be.
  • 00:17:31.130 --> 00:17:33.130
  • So this area right here, we know that this is a peristyle.
  • 00:17:33.140 --> 00:17:38.020
  • A peristyle is a enclosed courtyard.
  • 00:17:38.030 --> 00:17:41.010
  • There's two courtyards in Qumran.
  • 00:17:41.020 --> 00:17:42.200
  • This is the larger one.
  • 00:17:42.210 --> 00:17:44.040
  • The most interesting thing and one of my favorite things
  • 00:17:44.050 --> 00:17:46.000
  • that the copper scroll does is it actually wrote peristyle
  • 00:17:46.010 --> 00:17:49.080
  • the Greek word, which is a Greek word,
  • 00:17:49.090 --> 00:17:51.190
  • in transliterated Hebrew letters.
  • 00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:53.240
  • Jim: Where was the treasure from?
  • 00:17:53.250 --> 00:17:55.050
  • We don't know.
  • 00:17:55.060 --> 00:17:56.150
  • And when was the treasure buried?
  • 00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:57.260
  • We don't know.
  • 00:17:57.270 --> 00:17:59.060
  • But if it's a Greek word that was used--
  • 00:17:59.070 --> 00:18:01.090
  • Shelley: Peristyle.
  • 00:18:01.100 --> 00:18:02.190
  • And it's still the modern-- you know,
  • 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:04.070
  • still modern Israelis would use the word peristyle.
  • 00:18:04.080 --> 00:18:06.010
  • They're describing enclosed courtyard.
  • 00:18:06.020 --> 00:18:07.110
  • So here we have the largest enclosed courtyard,
  • 00:18:07.120 --> 00:18:09.050
  • we have the aqueduct that's coming in that's bringing in the
  • 00:18:09.060 --> 00:18:13.070
  • flash flood water and cistern, which would have made it muddy.
  • 00:18:13.080 --> 00:18:17.260
  • So that description of soft mire would have also made
  • 00:18:17.270 --> 00:18:21.020
  • a muddy location here, and I'll just cut to the chase.
  • 00:18:21.030 --> 00:18:25.020
  • So when Jim Barfield and Moshe Feiglin when they scanned
  • 00:18:25.030 --> 00:18:27.170
  • out here, this is a huge read.
  • 00:18:27.180 --> 00:18:32.020
  • Jim: What was the number of talents of gold?
  • 00:18:32.030 --> 00:18:33.180
  • Shelley: Nine hundred.
  • 00:18:33.190 --> 00:18:35.030
  • Jim: Okay, so you're talking almost a million ounces
  • 00:18:35.040 --> 00:18:37.190
  • at 1.300 currently for tryouts.
  • 00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:41.150
  • I calculated that last night.
  • 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:44.020
  • My calculator broke as far as the value of that.
  • 00:18:44.030 --> 00:18:47.190
  • Shelley: So this seems like also the place
  • 00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:50.000
  • that you would want to bury the largest treasures.
  • 00:18:50.010 --> 00:18:51.280
  • Jim: And this was scanned and again, a giant read.
  • 00:18:51.290 --> 00:18:54.240
  • Jim: So we're at spot number four?
  • 00:18:57.150 --> 00:18:59.070
  • Shelley: In the copper scroll.
  • 00:18:59.080 --> 00:19:00.210
  • Jim: And what were the clues in the copper scroll
  • 00:19:00.220 --> 00:19:02.110
  • for this location?
  • 00:19:02.120 --> 00:19:03.210
  • Shelley: Right.
  • 00:19:03.220 --> 00:19:05.020
  • So I want to read it and you visualize what you see because,
  • 00:19:05.030 --> 00:19:07.080
  • you know, Jim always says this isn't rocket science.
  • 00:19:07.090 --> 00:19:10.090
  • Like, some of this will just feel like a head slap.
  • 00:19:10.100 --> 00:19:12.140
  • So location four is--and this is a pretty standard translation.
  • 00:19:12.150 --> 00:19:16.200
  • I'm reading to you Jim Barfield's translation,
  • 00:19:16.210 --> 00:19:18.100
  • but there's a lot of agreement here with other translations.
  • 00:19:18.110 --> 00:19:21.090
  • "At the double entry pool, with the entrance by the north edge
  • 00:19:21.100 --> 00:19:26.010
  • of the community, six cubits against the white immersion pool
  • 00:19:26.020 --> 00:19:29.120
  • of oblation, rising from the soil goes down and to the left
  • 00:19:29.130 --> 00:19:32.210
  • and as high above the soft mire.
  • 00:19:32.220 --> 00:19:34.250
  • Dig 3 cubits for 40 silver talents."
  • 00:19:34.260 --> 00:19:38.190
  • So Jim is an arson investigator.
  • 00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:41.090
  • He's looking at this and he's looking
  • 00:19:41.100 --> 00:19:43.010
  • for a five point fingerprint matchup.
  • 00:19:43.020 --> 00:19:45.120
  • Jim: And he's also still in Oklahoma in his study--
  • 00:19:45.130 --> 00:19:49.090
  • Shelley: Doing this on a map.
  • 00:19:49.100 --> 00:19:50.280
  • Jim: looking at a map, but I've walked past
  • 00:19:50.290 --> 00:19:53.000
  • this how many times just-- okay, it's another mikvah,
  • 00:19:53.010 --> 00:19:55.150
  • but it's a double entry mikvah.
  • 00:19:55.160 --> 00:19:57.110
  • Shelley: And it's the only double entry mikvah at Qumran.
  • 00:19:57.120 --> 00:20:00.170
  • So if there'd been two double entry mikvah's,
  • 00:20:00.180 --> 00:20:02.150
  • that might have been a problem.
  • 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:03.260
  • Jim: So you're looking for the five points.
  • 00:20:03.270 --> 00:20:05.070
  • Shelley: That's one point; double entry pool.
  • 00:20:05.080 --> 00:20:07.070
  • We're at the north edge.
  • 00:20:07.080 --> 00:20:08.230
  • So it says with the entrance at the north edge,
  • 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:10.210
  • and we're at the northern most edge of the Qumran complex
  • 00:20:10.220 --> 00:20:14.110
  • and against the white immersion pools,
  • 00:20:14.120 --> 00:20:17.140
  • which would have been in a white plastered double entry mikvah,
  • 00:20:17.150 --> 00:20:20.240
  • and it says 6 cubits.
  • 00:20:20.250 --> 00:20:24.090
  • Well, guess what?
  • 00:20:24.100 --> 00:20:25.200
  • This measures 6 cubits, but this one is the one
  • 00:20:25.210 --> 00:20:27.210
  • that just kills me.
  • 00:20:27.220 --> 00:20:29.050
  • It says, "And it goes down into the left."
  • 00:20:29.060 --> 00:20:31.090
  • So not only is this a double entry mikvah or a double
  • 00:20:31.100 --> 00:20:34.060
  • entry pool like it says.
  • 00:20:34.070 --> 00:20:35.230
  • Both entrances, you have to go down into the left to enter
  • 00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:39.140
  • into the mikvah.
  • 00:20:39.150 --> 00:20:41.160
  • When Jim Barfield first showed me the research,
  • 00:20:41.170 --> 00:20:43.270
  • it was this site that sealed the deal and it's been
  • 00:20:43.280 --> 00:20:46.100
  • that for a lot of archaeologists.
  • 00:20:46.110 --> 00:20:48.260
  • Jim: Location number 32, the treasury?
  • 00:20:52.080 --> 00:20:55.250
  • Shelley: Right.
  • 00:20:55.260 --> 00:20:57.160
  • So according to location 32 in the copper scroll,
  • 00:20:57.170 --> 00:21:00.040
  • it says, "Enter this place from the eastern path--"
  • 00:21:00.050 --> 00:21:03.020
  • which is still how you come into a modern day,
  • 00:21:03.030 --> 00:21:05.100
  • you know, modern day pathway.
  • 00:21:05.110 --> 00:21:07.140
  • "Enter this place from the eastern path through
  • 00:21:07.150 --> 00:21:10.080
  • the broken house of the slanting guard post.
  • 00:21:10.090 --> 00:21:12.250
  • Treasure there are juice vessels near the scrolls
  • 00:21:12.260 --> 00:21:15.250
  • and zealous writings of Haggai.
  • 00:21:15.260 --> 00:21:18.200
  • By the exterior, dig seven cubits between
  • 00:21:18.210 --> 00:21:21.030
  • the two support stones."
  • 00:21:21.040 --> 00:21:22.270
  • This is the eastern path.
  • 00:21:22.280 --> 00:21:24.130
  • And so a couple times in the copper scroll,
  • 00:21:24.140 --> 00:21:27.010
  • it refers to this treasury a couple of times
  • 00:21:27.020 --> 00:21:29.030
  • in different ways.
  • 00:21:29.040 --> 00:21:30.160
  • One says the treasury, one says the House of Hakkoz,
  • 00:21:30.170 --> 00:21:32.290
  • which in the Bible--
  • 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:34.090
  • Jim: A course of priests.
  • 00:21:34.100 --> 00:21:35.190
  • Shelley: Exactly.
  • 00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:36.290
  • They couldn't prove their lineage.
  • 00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:38.090
  • And so they were no longer part of the priestly calendar,
  • 00:21:38.100 --> 00:21:39.240
  • but it made sense they were still given responsibility.
  • 00:21:39.250 --> 00:21:42.140
  • Jim: This would be their duty if this was connected to
  • 00:21:42.150 --> 00:21:44.140
  • the temple.
  • 00:21:44.150 --> 00:21:45.240
  • And again, even the outline of Qumran is mirror outline
  • 00:21:45.250 --> 00:21:49.270
  • of Jerusalem.
  • 00:21:49.280 --> 00:21:51.160
  • I mean, there's so many things that do seem to fit and--
  • 00:21:51.170 --> 00:21:53.260
  • Shelley: Exactly.
  • 00:21:53.270 --> 00:21:55.060
  • This sense of holiness, the sacred--how they separate
  • 00:21:55.070 --> 00:21:57.060
  • sacred from profane in terms of this space,
  • 00:21:57.070 --> 00:22:00.100
  • and really all copper scroll translations talk about
  • 00:22:00.110 --> 00:22:03.030
  • the House of Hakkoz.
  • 00:22:03.040 --> 00:22:04.130
  • So why that proper place name was in the copper scroll,
  • 00:22:04.140 --> 00:22:06.270
  • not many people could explain unless it's associated with the
  • 00:22:06.280 --> 00:22:11.050
  • treasury keepers, unless it's associated with these people
  • 00:22:11.060 --> 00:22:14.090
  • have been tasked that.
  • 00:22:14.100 --> 00:22:16.070
  • And the slanting walls description,
  • 00:22:16.080 --> 00:22:18.000
  • you know, there's also arrowheads that were found here.
  • 00:22:18.010 --> 00:22:20.160
  • It was clearly at one time a site of a battle as well.
  • 00:22:20.170 --> 00:22:23.210
  • So the idea to this would have been a known site for
  • 00:22:23.220 --> 00:22:27.110
  • the treasury at Qumran and that they would have taken things
  • 00:22:27.120 --> 00:22:30.030
  • out of the treasury, hid them at Qumran,
  • 00:22:30.040 --> 00:22:32.140
  • hid them at the cave, and then documented it later on
  • 00:22:32.150 --> 00:22:35.040
  • a copper scroll doesn't seem like the biggest leak of logic.
  • 00:22:35.050 --> 00:22:38.250
  • That seems like a narrative that could have easily taken place.
  • 00:22:38.260 --> 00:22:41.290
  • Jim: So everything's fitting together so perfectly
  • 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:43.190
  • and beautifully with what Jim has started to look at
  • 00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:45.240
  • and researched and find, but there's still a chance that
  • 00:22:45.250 --> 00:22:49.040
  • all of this had been found and discovered and,
  • 00:22:49.050 --> 00:22:51.270
  • you know, armies came through here,
  • 00:22:51.280 --> 00:22:53.130
  • Rome came through here, and they would have found
  • 00:22:53.140 --> 00:22:55.060
  • everything, except for the scan.
  • 00:22:55.070 --> 00:22:58.090
  • So what did the scan show here?
  • 00:22:58.100 --> 00:23:00.240
  • Shelley: This is true.
  • 00:23:00.250 --> 00:23:02.040
  • This is where theories are one thing and scans are another.
  • 00:23:02.050 --> 00:23:04.200
  • So Jim, actually, and Moshe Feiglin and Chris Knight,
  • 00:23:04.210 --> 00:23:07.150
  • they did a scan here on the perimeter,
  • 00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:09.260
  • which is--was a fairly easy place to scan,
  • 00:23:09.270 --> 00:23:12.020
  • the 6-foot coil definitely within view of the people
  • 00:23:12.030 --> 00:23:16.010
  • keeping guard at Qumran, but still this was
  • 00:23:16.020 --> 00:23:19.040
  • an important place to scan.
  • 00:23:19.050 --> 00:23:20.200
  • And I think probably in Jim's heart of hearts that if this
  • 00:23:20.210 --> 00:23:22.280
  • didn't have a positive read, it would be bad for the other
  • 00:23:22.290 --> 00:23:26.170
  • locations 'cause this would have been even to someone attacking
  • 00:23:26.180 --> 00:23:29.150
  • the House of Hakkoz.
  • 00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:31.090
  • This would have been the most logical place to look,
  • 00:23:31.100 --> 00:23:33.040
  • and he got a very big scan read here as well.
  • 00:23:33.050 --> 00:23:36.000
  • If the place of curses is supposed to be a place of
  • 00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:40.230
  • blessings in the age of mercy and a time for peace,
  • 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:43.190
  • that's redemption that God speaks through the land
  • 00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:48.010
  • and it's just such a perfect example.
  • 00:23:48.020 --> 00:23:50.260
  • Jim: And I'm very careful not to go out on a limb
  • 00:23:50.270 --> 00:23:52.100
  • prophetically, but it just-- it seems to connect
  • 00:23:52.110 --> 00:23:55.070
  • and I love that.
  • 00:23:55.080 --> 00:23:57.190
  • We'll see.
  • 00:23:57.200 --> 00:23:59.000
  • Jim: Whether or not there's treasure here in Qumran,
  • 00:24:00.110 --> 00:24:04.020
  • where is real treasure?
  • 00:24:04.030 --> 00:24:06.130
  • Money won't buy you happiness.
  • 00:24:06.140 --> 00:24:08.090
  • Money won't buy you eternal life.
  • 00:24:08.100 --> 00:24:10.150
  • As a matter of fact, the Bible says we have a treasure.
  • 00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:15.050
  • The treasure is Jesus, Yeshua.
  • 00:24:15.060 --> 00:24:18.200
  • He was promised and predicted.
  • 00:24:18.210 --> 00:24:20.210
  • He was typified by the sacrifices.
  • 00:24:20.220 --> 00:24:23.200
  • He came.
  • 00:24:23.210 --> 00:24:25.060
  • He was born of a virgin just as the prophet said,
  • 00:24:25.070 --> 00:24:28.010
  • in Bethlehem just as the prophet said,
  • 00:24:28.020 --> 00:24:30.140
  • and he was crucified on a cross just as the prophet said.
  • 00:24:30.150 --> 00:24:34.280
  • Isaiah--they found the great Isaiah scroll
  • 00:24:34.290 --> 00:24:37.190
  • here in these caves.
  • 00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:39.140
  • He said that Jesus would not only be cut off,
  • 00:24:39.150 --> 00:24:42.230
  • but that there would be a future.
  • 00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:44.290
  • So in other words, there's a resurrection.
  • 00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:46.190
  • Jesus came, lived innocent perfect,
  • 00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:50.020
  • and died for our sins on a cross and rose again.
  • 00:24:50.030 --> 00:24:53.230
  • He's coming back. That is the treasure.
  • 00:24:53.240 --> 00:24:57.170
  • Let this represent all of us and our sin.
  • 00:24:57.180 --> 00:25:01.120
  • Jesus came and he died on that cross,
  • 00:25:01.130 --> 00:25:04.120
  • and he came and made that perfect sacrifice.
  • 00:25:04.130 --> 00:25:08.080
  • So when God looks at those that have received him,
  • 00:25:08.090 --> 00:25:10.200
  • he doesn't see us as sinners.
  • 00:25:10.210 --> 00:25:13.030
  • He sees the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ.
  • 00:25:13.040 --> 00:25:16.180
  • Do you know him?
  • 00:25:16.190 --> 00:25:18.050
  • Have you ever received that gift?
  • 00:25:18.060 --> 00:25:19.290
  • Say something like this: "Lord, I'm a sinner.
  • 00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:21.270
  • I can't save myself, but right now I put my trust in the Lord
  • 00:25:21.280 --> 00:25:26.150
  • Jesus, the one who came, the one who died for me on the cross,
  • 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:30.220
  • the one who rose again.
  • 00:25:30.230 --> 00:25:32.140
  • I believe in him."
  • 00:25:32.150 --> 00:25:33.270
  • And by the authority of the Word of God,
  • 00:25:33.280 --> 00:25:35.190
  • you have everlasting life.
  • 00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:38.000
  • Jim: This treasure is incredible,
  • 00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:48.130
  • but we couldn't possibly fit everything
  • 00:25:48.140 --> 00:25:50.210
  • into a half-hour TV show.
  • 00:25:50.220 --> 00:25:52.200
  • So you're going to need to get Shelley Neese's book,
  • 00:25:52.210 --> 00:25:55.020
  • "The Copper Scroll Project."
  • 00:25:55.030 --> 00:25:56.240
  • It's an awesome read.
  • 00:25:56.250 --> 00:25:58.120
  • And you need to get, "The Copper Scroll" DVD,
  • 00:25:58.130 --> 00:26:01.190
  • where we have all the information on where these
  • 00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:04.110
  • priceless temple treasures are located.
  • 00:26:04.120 --> 00:26:07.040
  • And when you give to "InGrace," it helps us to keep bringing you
  • 00:26:07.050 --> 00:26:10.080
  • some great Christian television.
  • 00:26:10.090 --> 00:26:13.250
  • male announcer: Discover the location
  • 00:26:13.260 --> 00:26:15.080
  • of priceless temple treasure
  • 00:26:15.090 --> 00:26:17.010
  • with InGrace's series, "The Copper Scroll."
  • 00:26:17.020 --> 00:26:19.290
  • This three-part full length DVD series is available today
  • 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:23.100
  • for your gift of any amount to "InGrace."
  • 00:26:23.110 --> 00:26:26.010
  • When you give a gift of $35 or more,
  • 00:26:26.020 --> 00:26:28.090
  • we will also include the book, "The Copper Scroll Project,"
  • 00:26:28.100 --> 00:26:31.210
  • from author Shelley Neese.
  • 00:26:31.220 --> 00:26:33.120
  • Call 800-78-GRACE or visit ingrace.tv to order today.
  • 00:26:33.130 --> 00:26:38.140
  • Don't miss this exciting opportunity to get your copy.
  • 00:26:38.150 --> 00:26:41.100
  • announcer: Join us next week for part one
  • 00:26:46.100 --> 00:26:47.210
  • of our latest series, "Joshua's Conquest."
  • 00:26:47.220 --> 00:26:51.200
  • Do the Bible and archaeology agree?
  • 00:26:51.210 --> 00:26:54.080
  • Scott Stripling: Well, here we are, Jim.
  • 00:26:54.090 --> 00:26:55.270
  • The battle for the Bible begins at Jericho.
  • 00:26:55.280 --> 00:26:57.240
  • When you hear people say you can't trust the Bible
  • 00:26:57.250 --> 00:27:00.110
  • because of the evidence in the archaeological record,
  • 00:27:00.120 --> 00:27:03.010
  • nothing can be further from the truth.
  • 00:27:03.020 --> 00:27:04.220
  • Bryant Wood: And when we look at those discoveries,
  • 00:27:04.230 --> 00:27:07.120
  • how do they line up with the Bible?
  • 00:27:07.130 --> 00:27:10.100
  • They all agree with the Bible.
  • 00:27:10.110 --> 00:27:12.260
  • announcer: "InGrace" is a viewer-supported ministry.
  • 00:27:20.150 --> 00:27:23.140
  • Thank you for your prayers and gifts.
  • 00:27:23.150 --> 00:27:26.000