Jim Scudder, Jr.: InGrace | TBN

Jim Scudder, Jr.: InGrace

Watch Jim Scudder, Jr.:  InGrace
September 24, 2019
27:30

The Copper Scroll - Priceless Temple Treasure Found? Part 2

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Jim Scudder, Jr.: InGrace

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  • Jim Scudder, Jr.: Welcome to "InGrace."
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  • We've got a great show for you today.
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  • We're talkin' about "The Copper Scroll," and treasure
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  • unimaginable.
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  • Jim: Ever since I was a boy, I've been fascinated
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  • with God's creation.
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  • I'm traveling the planet to tell his story about his world.
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  • I'm Jim Scudder, Jr.
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  • Come with me on another exciting adventure "InGrace."
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  • Jim: Last time, our adventure began with a simple
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  • Facebook message.
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  • That short message opened my eyes to the possibility that an
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  • incredible hoard of gold, silver, and Temple treasure, the
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  • ephod of the high priest and even the Ark of the Covenant,
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  • may be buried at a place that I've walked over dozens of
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  • times, Qumran.
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  • The more I read, the more it seemed that this might
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  • actually be true.
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  • We flew out to Washington, D.C., to find out more from author
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  • Shelley Neese at the impressive Museum of the Bible.
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  • Shelley had written "The Copper Scroll Project," a book of
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  • adventure and intrigue.
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  • The main character, a retired fire investigator from Oklahoma,
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  • named Jim Barfield.
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  • After talking to Shelley and finding out more about the
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  • Copper Scroll, I knew that we needed to talk to Jim Barfield
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  • himself, to hear the story right from the source.
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  • The film crew and I wasted no time and flew out to Texas
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  • because, if true, the Copper Scroll treasure will be the
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  • greatest discovery of all history.
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  • Jim: Hey, here we are, Eagle Mountain Park in Central Texas.
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  • Kind of a pretty place.
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  • We're not here to see the beauty.
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  • We're here to see Jim Barfield, and we're gonna get the scoop on
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  • the treasure of the Copper Scroll.
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  • Jim Scudder: Jim Barfield, great to meet you.
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  • Jim Barfield: Very nice to meet you.
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  • Jim Scudder: Appreciate you telling us your story,
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  • and it's quite a story.
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  • Jim Barfield: Well, thank you, and if I am correct, it's
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  • gonna have an impact on every single person on this planet.
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  • For example, at the steps heading east 40 cubits, I looked
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  • at my map that I had--
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  • 'cause I studied the Dead Sea Scroll--
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  • Jim Scudder: And this is Location 1?
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  • Jim Barfield: Location 1.
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  • Pulled my map over, and I looked at it.
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  • I said, "I need some steps heading east," and I get--oh,
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  • right there.
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  • Jim Scudder: You have a map of Qumran?
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  • Jim Barfield: Map of Qumran.
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  • Jim Scudder: And so you find one set of stairs heading east?
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  • Jim Barfield: The only steps at Qumran that head east.
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  • Jim Scudder: And a lightbulb going on.
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  • You're like, "Well, that was way too easy."
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  • Jim Barfield: It's gotta be 40 cubits long.
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  • So I go online, and I found a document written by Yuval Peleg
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  • and Yitzhak Magen, the two men that I met.
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  • Jim Scudder: The ones that excavated there at Qumran?
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  • Jim Barfield: Yeah, they were the experts on that place.
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  • Those set of steps, it's a pool, actually, right there, with a
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  • measurement on it.
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  • I think it was 19.5 meters.
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  • I did the math, 19.2 inches to the cubit.
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  • I did the calculation, 40 cubits long, and I thought,
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  • "Coincidence.
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  • That's highly possible."
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  • Jim Scudder: Well, it's possible.
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  • Jim Barfield: Yeah, it's highly possible.
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  • So I thought, "Okay, well, that's kind of neat."
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  • But then I read, and just a few minutes later, I found the
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  • second location.
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  • Identified it very easily.
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  • I thought, "Now, this is crazy."
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  • So I did the third location, which was the cave, and I
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  • thought, "Okay, I gotta find a cave.
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  • It's gotta be here."
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  • And I did.
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  • I got a aerial photograph of Qumran, the exact map that I
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  • had a picture that I needed, and I looked at the
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  • north end of that hill, just exactly as it tells you to do,
  • 00:04:14.220 --> 00:04:18.210
  • and there was a spot that looked like it could have a cave.
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  • I hit it on first go-around.
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  • Now we've got three locations.
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  • I didn't realize this until months later.
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  • Matter of fact, it was the very end of my examination
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  • of the scroll.
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  • Those three locations are in a perfectly straight line, and it
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  • ends with the cave.
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  • The last five locations, in a perfectly straight line,
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  • and it ends with the cave.
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  • Coincidence?
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  • No, no.
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  • Jim Scudder: Isn't that what you did though when you were
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  • investigating a fire, looking for arson, or looking for the
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  • cause of a fire?
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  • Is--you're kind of tracing everything back to
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  • a single point?
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  • Jim Barfield: Yeah, point of origin, yeah.
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  • Jim Scudder: And this very similar.
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  • Jim Barfield: It is.
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  • You follow the clues as they go, the burn patterns.
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  • Within 20 minutes, 20 minutes, I could tell you where the first
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  • five locations were at.
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  • Jim Scudder: This was kind of so simple, and it's just right
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  • there, and everyone's looking everywhere else.
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  • How did they miss it?
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  • Jim Barfield: 1952 is when the Copper Scroll was found.
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  • They've been lookin' at it since then, and they've been tryin' to
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  • figure it out, and you know what I think it is?
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  • With no disrespect to the guys that have been tryin' in the
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  • past, they tried to make it far more complicated than what it
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  • is, and my wife always laughs at me because, the truth of the
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  • matter is, I normally don't follow instructions, whether
  • 00:05:43.150 --> 00:05:46.200
  • it's a swing set or whatever, but this one, I did.
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  • It says, "Under the ruins in the Valley of Achor."
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  • "Okay, I gotta find the set of ruins where all these
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  • things are at."
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  • That's what I assumed.
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  • And, oh, I thought, "Well, I'll just go ahead and try it.
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  • I'll find one set of ruins, and if that set of ruins didn't
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  • match the Copper Scroll, go to the next."
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  • Jim Scudder: This is your first foray into
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  • anything like this.
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  • I mean, you hadn't even been to Israel?
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  • Jim Barfield: I met a wonderful man by the name of
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  • Vendyl Jones.
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  • He got me excited about the Copper Scroll.
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  • I've read it before.
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  • I didn't want anything to do with it.
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  • It was a dry, boring list of gold, silver, and articles.
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  • Jim Scudder: He encouraged you to look at it.
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  • You did.
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  • Now, that has taken you on quite a journey.
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  • Jim Barfield: It can be really exciting
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  • and a big downfall.
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  • Really exciting.
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  • It's really like the roller-coaster ride.
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  • It really is like that, and as far as--I'm always pushing
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  • because, when I stand in front of God, he's gonna examine me
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  • for what I did with this Copper Scroll project.
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  • I want him to say, "Buddy, you are hard to hold back."
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  • I want him to know that I'm tryin' my very best.
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  • I'm always willing.
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  • Anytime of the night or day, I will go.
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  • If he says, "Go," I'm goin', and my buddy Chris Knight, he's
  • 00:07:03.060 --> 00:07:05.210
  • goin' with me.
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  • Chris: It's been tough.
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  • I mean, we'd go over there, and, literally, without any guidance,
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  • we're just going.
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  • Jim is like a bull. He gets focused, and he goes.
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  • Now I know why God chose him to do that.
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  • And so, over the years of doin' the project, we have been
  • 00:07:18.190 --> 00:07:22.230
  • through I can't tell you how many obstacles, especially with
  • 00:07:22.240 --> 00:07:26.180
  • people, with situations, dealin' with the IAA, dealin' with the
  • 00:07:26.190 --> 00:07:30.060
  • archaeologists, getting frustrated on whether, you know,
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  • "When is this gonna happen? Is the stuff really there?"
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  • and, you know, it's had its up-and-downs, but God has always
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  • been faithful that, when there's a down, he always comes back and
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  • re-encourages us that we're on the right track, that there's
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  • something going on here.
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  • Jim Barfield: I believe Qumran was the home
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  • of the priest.
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  • They were attacked, and only a hundred of 'em survived the
  • 00:07:52.100 --> 00:07:55.170
  • attack, but those men fought hard enough that they saved
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  • Qumran, and what they saved was more than just a bunch of
  • 00:07:59.020 --> 00:08:03.040
  • stones, walls, and stuff.
  • 00:08:03.050 --> 00:08:05.230
  • Qumran housed a treasury.
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  • When you walk into Qumran, the next time you go, you're gonna
  • 00:08:09.010 --> 00:08:11.100
  • have a totally different outlook on what this is.
  • 00:08:11.110 --> 00:08:13.250
  • Jim Scudder: And that's the thing, Jim.
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  • I've walked Qumran ever since I was 12, year after year, just,
  • 00:08:15.070 --> 00:08:19.130
  • kind of going through, and I really didn't pay much attention
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  • to the ruins 'cause I thought it was just, you know, what they
  • 00:08:21.230 --> 00:08:24.110
  • would tell you the scenes and all of that.
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  • You're right.
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  • When I go back there, I think I'm gonna feel like shocks going
  • 00:08:27.240 --> 00:08:30.080
  • through my body.
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  • Jim Barfield: When you walk up the steps on that big
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  • half-pyramid building there, you're steppin' up
  • 00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:37.050
  • on the treasury.
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  • In the Copper Scroll, they call it the "House of Hakkoz."
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  • Hakkoz was one of the 24 priestly courses.
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  • Their job was treasury.
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  • They took care of the treasury.
  • 00:08:47.110 --> 00:08:49.050
  • In the Bible, you see it, the name of Hakkoz mentioned, and
  • 00:08:49.060 --> 00:08:51.260
  • they're counting silver vessels, gold vessels.
  • 00:08:51.270 --> 00:08:54.220
  • They're counting the wealth.
  • 00:08:54.230 --> 00:08:57.070
  • Jim Scudder: We're talking about a lot though, tons of
  • 00:08:57.080 --> 00:08:58.250
  • precious metals.
  • 00:08:58.260 --> 00:09:00.230
  • Jim Barfield: Tons of precious metals.
  • 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:03.170
  • Matter of fact, the third location on the Copper Scroll,
  • 00:09:03.180 --> 00:09:06.090
  • it says 900 talents of polished gold is at that location.
  • 00:09:06.100 --> 00:09:14.040
  • Know exactly where it's at, and if it's still there--and I do
  • 00:09:14.050 --> 00:09:17.040
  • believe it's still there.
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  • You know how much a talent weighs?
  • 00:09:18.190 --> 00:09:21.220
  • The common, common weight for it is 75 pounds: 900 times 75 times
  • 00:09:21.230 --> 00:09:28.190
  • 14 ounces, which is troy ounces, which that's how they calculate
  • 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:32.260
  • the value of gold and silver, that's a lot of money.
  • 00:09:32.270 --> 00:09:38.060
  • That is an enormous amount of money, but that money is--this
  • 00:09:38.070 --> 00:09:43.030
  • is very important: That money, that gold, that silver, those
  • 00:09:43.040 --> 00:09:46.100
  • gems are not for us to go spend and buy--sell 'em at jewelry
  • 00:09:46.110 --> 00:09:50.270
  • stores, God forbid.
  • 00:09:50.280 --> 00:09:54.090
  • Jim Barfield: At the cave--and we're gonna mention
  • 00:09:56.150 --> 00:09:58.000
  • several times--that is about 390 yards away from Qumran, there, I
  • 00:09:58.010 --> 00:10:04.090
  • believe, absolutely believe, there is a cave there that has
  • 00:10:04.100 --> 00:10:07.080
  • been sealed and covered with dirt so you couldn't
  • 00:10:07.090 --> 00:10:09.260
  • find the entrance.
  • 00:10:09.270 --> 00:10:11.090
  • That's where the majority of it went.
  • 00:10:11.100 --> 00:10:13.120
  • Jim Scudder: And what's the most significant thing in the
  • 00:10:13.130 --> 00:10:14.220
  • cave, according to what you believe?
  • 00:10:14.230 --> 00:10:18.130
  • Jim Barfield: If you trust what 2 Maccabees says, and I do,
  • 00:10:18.140 --> 00:10:21.280
  • 2 Maccabees says Jeremiah was on his way to Mount Nebo, and some
  • 00:10:21.290 --> 00:10:26.230
  • people think he went to Mount Nebo when he found the cave, but
  • 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:30.060
  • I absolutely don't think so.
  • 00:10:30.070 --> 00:10:32.030
  • If you go straight from Jerusalem at the Golden Gate,
  • 00:10:32.040 --> 00:10:35.040
  • the main gate, and you head towards Nebo, you could
  • 00:10:35.050 --> 00:10:38.200
  • go right by Qumran.
  • 00:10:38.210 --> 00:10:40.240
  • Just had to make a little dip around because of the cliffs
  • 00:10:40.250 --> 00:10:42.270
  • that are there, and you come around, and you can be right
  • 00:10:42.280 --> 00:10:45.220
  • there at Qumran on the way to Mount Nebo.
  • 00:10:45.230 --> 00:10:48.290
  • That's the shortest route.
  • 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:50.240
  • Well, they could've taken--and 2 Maccabees, it says that they
  • 00:10:50.250 --> 00:10:56.060
  • took the Altar of Incense, Table of Shewbread, the Ark of the
  • 00:10:56.070 --> 00:11:00.160
  • Covenant, and the Tabernacle of Moses.
  • 00:11:00.170 --> 00:11:04.010
  • The Tabernacle of Moses.
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  • Can you imagine?
  • 00:11:05.270 --> 00:11:07.130
  • Well, they said that Jeremiah took this stuff, and he put it
  • 00:11:07.140 --> 00:11:10.010
  • inside of a cave, and he sealed the entrance.
  • 00:11:10.020 --> 00:11:13.000
  • Sealed the entrance.
  • 00:11:13.010 --> 00:11:16.080
  • Well, as we were excavating in 2009, a piece of dirt fell away,
  • 00:11:16.090 --> 00:11:22.120
  • which made the archaeologist panic.
  • 00:11:22.130 --> 00:11:25.090
  • He started pushing people out of the way because he knew we were
  • 00:11:25.100 --> 00:11:27.180
  • lookin' for a cave, and there was a void there, a big void,
  • 00:11:27.190 --> 00:11:30.150
  • and he thought, "It really is here.
  • 00:11:30.160 --> 00:11:32.120
  • Now what am I gonna do now?"
  • 00:11:32.130 --> 00:11:34.000
  • He covers it up.
  • 00:11:34.010 --> 00:11:35.200
  • Well, I look at that, and I talk to him and said,
  • 00:11:35.210 --> 00:11:38.210
  • "That doesn't look natural."
  • 00:11:38.220 --> 00:11:40.080
  • He said, "No, no," in his heavy, thick, Israeli accent, "no,
  • 00:11:40.090 --> 00:11:44.020
  • it's--this is natural."
  • 00:11:44.030 --> 00:11:46.070
  • Well, baloney.
  • 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:47.190
  • I broke off a piece of it since it's "natural."
  • 00:11:47.200 --> 00:11:50.040
  • I took me a piece of it about this long, and they tested it,
  • 00:11:50.050 --> 00:11:52.170
  • did a very elaborate report on it.
  • 00:11:52.180 --> 00:11:56.000
  • His report came back, "Most probably man-made material."
  • 00:11:56.010 --> 00:12:01.230
  • Jim Scudder: What you would've just started to uncover
  • 00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:03.130
  • was them blocking the cave and making it look like
  • 00:12:03.140 --> 00:12:06.270
  • a natural stone?
  • 00:12:06.280 --> 00:12:08.120
  • Jim Barfield: Natural as possible.
  • 00:12:08.130 --> 00:12:09.220
  • Well, it didn't look like stone.
  • 00:12:09.230 --> 00:12:11.100
  • Look at all the caves the next time you go.
  • 00:12:11.110 --> 00:12:12.280
  • All of the caves have this kind of a gomlet of stone, and then
  • 00:12:12.290 --> 00:12:15.200
  • right at the pinnacle, there is a opening.
  • 00:12:15.210 --> 00:12:18.250
  • 00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:23.020
  • Jim Scudder: I believe you should get
  • 00:12:23.140 --> 00:12:25.020
  • "The Copper Scroll" DVD.
  • 00:12:25.030 --> 00:12:27.090
  • Learn more about "The Copper Scroll," and you'll also be
  • 00:12:27.100 --> 00:12:30.100
  • blessed to learn more about Israel and about the incredible
  • 00:12:30.110 --> 00:12:33.170
  • land of Israel.
  • 00:12:33.180 --> 00:12:35.080
  • Another item that you really should get is this book by
  • 00:12:35.090 --> 00:12:38.060
  • Shelley Neese, "The Copper Scroll Project."
  • 00:12:38.070 --> 00:12:40.290
  • It will tell you the whole story that we couldn't even possibly
  • 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:43.210
  • fit into the DVD.
  • 00:12:43.220 --> 00:12:45.250
  • "The Copper Scroll Project," a great book, you can get it from
  • 00:12:45.260 --> 00:12:48.260
  • us here at InGrace.
  • 00:12:48.270 --> 00:12:51.030
  • male announcer: Discover the location of priceless Temple
  • 00:12:51.040 --> 00:12:52.270
  • treasure with InGrace's series, "The Copper Scroll."
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  • This three-part, full-length DVD series is available today for
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  • your gift of any amount to InGrace.
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  • When you give a gift of $35 or more, we will also include the
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  • book "The Copper Scroll Project," from author
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  • Shelley Neese.
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  • Call 800-78-GRACE, or visit ingrace.tv, to order today.
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  • Don't miss this exciting opportunity to get your copy.
  • 00:13:15.070 --> 00:13:19.010
  • 00:13:19.260 --> 00:13:23.170
  • Jim Barfield: The very first location, it says, "At the steps
  • 00:13:24.130 --> 00:13:28.170
  • heading east 40 cubits, dig at the steps.
  • 00:13:28.180 --> 00:13:32.280
  • Find 17 talents of silver service vessels," meaning they
  • 00:13:32.290 --> 00:13:39.010
  • started off right there with silver service vessels, things
  • 00:13:39.020 --> 00:13:42.110
  • that they used in the services for the Tabernacle
  • 00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:45.210
  • and the Temple.
  • 00:13:45.220 --> 00:13:47.210
  • Now, I can't say that--which ones they are.
  • 00:13:47.220 --> 00:13:49.290
  • They may be Tabernacle, they may be Temple service vessels, but a
  • 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:54.180
  • lot of it is the "kelim" was what they call it, the vessels
  • 00:13:54.190 --> 00:13:58.190
  • of the Temple.
  • 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:02.130
  • Jim Barfield: The boys that wrote that scroll had to write
  • 00:14:02.140 --> 00:14:04.170
  • from left to right, and Hebrew, of course, goes from right to
  • 00:14:04.180 --> 00:14:08.100
  • left to read it.
  • 00:14:08.110 --> 00:14:09.230
  • Well, they had to write it backwards.
  • 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:12.000
  • Each letter had to be written backwards, and they had to write
  • 00:14:12.010 --> 00:14:14.110
  • it in such a way, when they flipped it over, the letters
  • 00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:17.250
  • protruded from the map or from the scroll, and you could read
  • 00:14:17.260 --> 00:14:21.210
  • it from right to left.
  • 00:14:21.220 --> 00:14:24.140
  • Jim Scudder: Did you try it a little bit to--
  • 00:14:24.150 --> 00:14:26.030
  • Jim Barfield: I did do it.
  • 00:14:26.040 --> 00:14:27.130
  • Matter of fact, I brought my scroll with me today.
  • 00:14:27.140 --> 00:14:31.200
  • When they wrote this scroll, they were in a big hurry.
  • 00:14:31.210 --> 00:14:33.280
  • This guy wrote to about right here, and then it starts getting
  • 00:14:33.290 --> 00:14:37.170
  • tiny, and then wrote it from there.
  • 00:14:37.180 --> 00:14:40.210
  • So this is not a typical document of Qumran, and they
  • 00:14:40.220 --> 00:14:46.110
  • wanted it to last for a millennium.
  • 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:49.170
  • That pool is the one that the antiquities director, the
  • 00:14:49.180 --> 00:14:54.130
  • rabbis, when they see this one, it is so distinct, so exacting,
  • 00:14:54.140 --> 00:15:01.190
  • that everybody just goes, "Okay, I get it."
  • 00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:05.050
  • I mean, the first two are really--first three are really
  • 00:15:05.060 --> 00:15:08.100
  • interesting, but that one gets 'em every time.
  • 00:15:08.110 --> 00:15:11.010
  • Says, "At the double-entry pool with the entrance at the north
  • 00:15:11.020 --> 00:15:14.200
  • end of the community--"
  • 00:15:14.210 --> 00:15:16.020
  • okay, so I looked for a double-entry pool.
  • 00:15:16.030 --> 00:15:18.270
  • There it was.
  • 00:15:18.280 --> 00:15:20.170
  • This is the extreme--that point right there is the extreme north
  • 00:15:20.180 --> 00:15:23.150
  • end of the community-- "with the entrance at the north edge of
  • 00:15:23.160 --> 00:15:29.190
  • the community--" here's the entrance right here where they'd
  • 00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:31.250
  • come in, and I had to do some real, you know, investigative
  • 00:15:31.260 --> 00:15:36.060
  • research to figure out what this pool was.
  • 00:15:36.070 --> 00:15:38.280
  • I saw the sign at Qumran that says, "mikvah,"
  • 00:15:38.290 --> 00:15:43.220
  • for "ritual bathing."
  • 00:15:43.230 --> 00:15:45.220
  • Okay, there you go, "Six cubits toward the white immersion pool,
  • 00:15:45.230 --> 00:15:49.290
  • pool of oblation," meaning, a "pool of cleansing," that goes
  • 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:54.280
  • down into the left, but when you enter into this pool, you have
  • 00:15:54.290 --> 00:15:58.090
  • to go down and to the left to get into it.
  • 00:15:58.100 --> 00:16:02.110
  • It says--and it's high above the sea floor.
  • 00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:05.140
  • Well, this lift of this mikvah sticks out of the ground about
  • 00:16:05.150 --> 00:16:09.180
  • this far, higher than any other pool sticks out of
  • 00:16:09.190 --> 00:16:12.130
  • the ground at Qumran.
  • 00:16:12.140 --> 00:16:14.000
  • The rest of 'em, just a few inches out of the ground, but
  • 00:16:14.010 --> 00:16:15.150
  • this one is very much out of the ground.
  • 00:16:15.160 --> 00:16:17.130
  • Not only that, but, remember, this is a north,
  • 00:16:17.140 --> 00:16:19.250
  • extreme north end.
  • 00:16:19.260 --> 00:16:21.090
  • Well, all this water that comes in runs downhill, so this is the
  • 00:16:21.100 --> 00:16:25.100
  • absolute highest geographically of all of Qumran, so everything
  • 00:16:25.110 --> 00:16:29.220
  • is matching at this point.
  • 00:16:29.230 --> 00:16:32.090
  • "Dig three cubits for 40 silver talents."
  • 00:16:32.100 --> 00:16:34.210
  • This wall right here is exactly six cubits long.
  • 00:16:34.220 --> 00:16:39.010
  • All ten of those points that they named on there match up
  • 00:16:39.020 --> 00:16:43.090
  • exactly, and when we lifted fingerprints as a fire marshal,
  • 00:16:43.100 --> 00:16:46.180
  • that's what you wanted.
  • 00:16:46.190 --> 00:16:50.090
  • Jim Scudder: Are you excited to make your first
  • 00:16:50.250 --> 00:16:52.060
  • journey to Israel?
  • 00:16:52.070 --> 00:16:53.190
  • Jim Barfield: Yeah, my wife and I grabbed backpacks, and I
  • 00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:58.080
  • had just retired, and money was not, you know, abundant, so we
  • 00:16:58.090 --> 00:17:02.110
  • dug into our savings, got some money out,
  • 00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:04.240
  • and we headed for Jerusalem.
  • 00:17:04.250 --> 00:17:07.090
  • Jim Scudder: You go from the city of Jerusalem to Qumran?
  • 00:17:07.100 --> 00:17:10.260
  • And did it verify--were you able to verify what you had already
  • 00:17:10.270 --> 00:17:13.220
  • been studyin'--the charts?
  • 00:17:13.230 --> 00:17:15.140
  • Jim Barfield: I had figured out, by that point, about 20,
  • 00:17:15.150 --> 00:17:18.090
  • finding 20 of the locations, and every one of them that I had
  • 00:17:18.100 --> 00:17:21.220
  • found, matched, matched the buildings, it matched the
  • 00:17:21.230 --> 00:17:25.010
  • features of the buildings, it matched incredibly well, so,
  • 00:17:25.020 --> 00:17:29.260
  • yes, it confirmed a lot.
  • 00:17:29.270 --> 00:17:32.100
  • Jim Scudder: Take us through the process now of getting other
  • 00:17:32.110 --> 00:17:35.120
  • people to listen to you, especially the Israeli
  • 00:17:35.130 --> 00:17:39.020
  • Antiquities Authority and those that control there in Qumran.
  • 00:17:39.030 --> 00:17:42.080
  • Jim Barfield: I prayed, and I said, "God, how do you expect me
  • 00:17:42.090 --> 00:17:45.120
  • to get the Antiquities Authority of Israel to listen to a fireman
  • 00:17:45.130 --> 00:17:48.150
  • from Oklahoma?"
  • 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:50.040
  • That's what I said.
  • 00:17:50.050 --> 00:17:51.210
  • This little Comanche lady from the little college where I was
  • 00:17:51.220 --> 00:17:55.000
  • teachin' investigative report writing, got me in touch with
  • 00:17:55.010 --> 00:17:57.280
  • the director general of the entire Antiquities Authority
  • 00:17:57.290 --> 00:18:01.170
  • of Israel.
  • 00:18:01.180 --> 00:18:02.270
  • Jim Scudder: Which no one usually can get access to
  • 00:18:02.280 --> 00:18:04.290
  • someone like that?
  • 00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:06.160
  • Jim Barfield: No, he came and picked me up at my little, tiny
  • 00:18:06.170 --> 00:18:08.150
  • Jerusalem hotel.
  • 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:11.150
  • Jim Scudder: What are people's reactions when you
  • 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:13.070
  • first start explaining this to people?
  • 00:18:13.080 --> 00:18:17.280
  • Jim Barfield: Showin' it to the first rabbi, I began to show
  • 00:18:17.290 --> 00:18:20.140
  • him my research, and he's sittin' about as far away as you
  • 00:18:20.150 --> 00:18:23.070
  • are, and I had my--on a small desk, I got my research, and I
  • 00:18:23.080 --> 00:18:27.230
  • open it up to him, and after I read it to him, he started
  • 00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:30.080
  • unfoldin' his arms.
  • 00:18:30.090 --> 00:18:31.180
  • Then the second one, he starts leanin' forward.
  • 00:18:31.190 --> 00:18:36.030
  • Third one, he's really leaning forward, and the fourth one,
  • 00:18:36.040 --> 00:18:38.170
  • that's when he gets up out of his chair, walks around to me,
  • 00:18:38.180 --> 00:18:42.270
  • pulls me up out of my chair and kisses me on both cheeks.
  • 00:18:42.280 --> 00:18:46.190
  • I was bein' validated for my research.
  • 00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:50.130
  • Jim Barfield: I took my research in to Shuka Dorfman,
  • 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:55.290
  • and Shuka introduced me to Yuval Peleg and Yitzhak Magen, that
  • 00:18:56.000 --> 00:19:01.000
  • two guys, over what is commonly called the West Bank.
  • 00:19:01.010 --> 00:19:04.040
  • I like to call it Judea and Samaria.
  • 00:19:04.050 --> 00:19:06.000
  • He introduced me to 'em, had a meeting specifically for me at
  • 00:19:06.010 --> 00:19:09.240
  • the Rockefeller Museum in his office.
  • 00:19:09.250 --> 00:19:13.210
  • And those guys--the younger guy, Yuval Peleg, was on fire.
  • 00:19:13.220 --> 00:19:19.240
  • The older guy wanted to throw rocks at me, but he, the younger
  • 00:19:19.250 --> 00:19:24.180
  • guy, Yuval, looked at Shuka Dorfman.
  • 00:19:24.190 --> 00:19:27.050
  • He said, "I think this guy's done it."
  • 00:19:27.060 --> 00:19:30.270
  • Jim Scudder: You've had so many excavations in Qumran, and
  • 00:19:30.280 --> 00:19:32.280
  • no one's ever even accidentally stumbled upon it.
  • 00:19:32.290 --> 00:19:35.060
  • You've done the dig in--was it 2009?
  • 00:19:35.070 --> 00:19:38.230
  • Jim Barfield: Yeah, mm-hmm.
  • 00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:40.030
  • Jim Scudder: And didn't come on anything, but it's a very
  • 00:19:40.040 --> 00:19:43.160
  • simple answer.
  • 00:19:43.170 --> 00:19:45.010
  • No one's ever dug below virgin soil, is that correct?
  • 00:19:45.020 --> 00:19:48.000
  • Jim Barfield: Yes.
  • 00:19:48.010 --> 00:19:49.120
  • Copper Scroll says seven cubits from the majority of them.
  • 00:19:49.130 --> 00:19:52.070
  • Seven cubits equates to about twelve feet, so, yeah, we gotta
  • 00:19:52.080 --> 00:19:57.020
  • go way down deep to be able to find 'em.
  • 00:19:57.030 --> 00:20:00.000
  • In 2009, with Yuval Peleg, we actually started at that point,
  • 00:20:00.010 --> 00:20:03.100
  • but as we were diggin', he said--he asked me, "How deep do
  • 00:20:03.110 --> 00:20:06.240
  • you wanna go?"
  • 00:20:06.250 --> 00:20:08.070
  • I said, "As deep as you'll go."
  • 00:20:08.080 --> 00:20:10.190
  • He said, "Well, how about two meters?"
  • 00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:12.120
  • I'm goin', "ooogh," "Yeah, two meters is good."
  • 00:20:12.130 --> 00:20:15.000
  • I mean, they're--
  • 00:20:15.010 --> 00:20:16.100
  • Jim Scudder: You're there.
  • 00:20:16.110 --> 00:20:17.250
  • At least get something done.
  • 00:20:17.260 --> 00:20:19.080
  • Jim Barfield: Yeah, I'm at their mercy, so I said, "Okay,
  • 00:20:19.090 --> 00:20:20.220
  • let's do that."
  • 00:20:20.230 --> 00:20:22.060
  • So we started diggin'.
  • 00:20:22.070 --> 00:20:23.190
  • We got about this deep, and he gets a phone call.
  • 00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:27.070
  • After that phone call, we had to stop.
  • 00:20:27.080 --> 00:20:31.230
  • We dug a little bit more in the ruins, just kind
  • 00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:33.160
  • of a cursory--yeah, and we had agreed to five locations.
  • 00:20:33.170 --> 00:20:37.120
  • We dug at three, and one location, we went only about
  • 00:20:37.130 --> 00:20:41.020
  • this deep.
  • 00:20:41.030 --> 00:20:42.120
  • Remember, 12 cubits?
  • 00:20:42.130 --> 00:20:43.230
  • You know, with seven cubits, that's not seven cubits.
  • 00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:47.290
  • Well, that's when I realized something had happened.
  • 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:52.160
  • Somebody had called.
  • 00:20:52.170 --> 00:20:54.050
  • Somebody had complained, and I believe we're
  • 00:20:54.060 --> 00:20:56.020
  • absolutely correct.
  • 00:20:56.030 --> 00:20:57.280
  • I got a little better than a high school education.
  • 00:20:57.290 --> 00:21:00.100
  • They got PhDs, and they're thinkin', "If that guy finds
  • 00:21:00.110 --> 00:21:03.230
  • this, not gonna be good for our careers."
  • 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:06.260
  • God doesn't care about your degrees.
  • 00:21:06.270 --> 00:21:09.010
  • He's not a respecter of persons. He wants your heart.
  • 00:21:09.020 --> 00:21:11.270
  • And my heart is to help Israel because, if I help Israel,
  • 00:21:11.280 --> 00:21:16.190
  • it's gonna help us.
  • 00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:18.220
  • Some Jewish people asked me to go to New York to meet a guy
  • 00:21:18.230 --> 00:21:20.060
  • named Moshe Feiglin.
  • 00:21:20.070 --> 00:21:21.220
  • Moshe was doin' a fund-raiser, and they wanted me just to talk
  • 00:21:21.230 --> 00:21:25.180
  • to him and then show to him my research.
  • 00:21:25.190 --> 00:21:28.060
  • I said, "Okay, I can do that."
  • 00:21:28.070 --> 00:21:30.290
  • Well, we sat down at this table in a home, and I projected
  • 00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:33.290
  • up on the wall.
  • 00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:35.140
  • Within a few minutes, he is goin', "Why are you not digging?
  • 00:21:35.150 --> 00:21:40.140
  • Why is this--"
  • 00:21:40.150 --> 00:21:41.260
  • I said, "Because your government won't let me."
  • 00:21:41.270 --> 00:21:43.140
  • He said, "What?" I said, "Yes."
  • 00:21:43.150 --> 00:21:45.290
  • He said, "They're not letting you?"
  • 00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:47.180
  • I said, "No."
  • 00:21:47.190 --> 00:21:48.290
  • And then I said, "All I wanna do right now is scan it, test it,
  • 00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:51.080
  • see if those items are there because that's a precious place.
  • 00:21:51.090 --> 00:21:54.000
  • You don't wanna go diggin' holes and just check."
  • 00:21:54.010 --> 00:21:56.070
  • And he said, "When're you goin' back?"
  • 00:21:56.080 --> 00:22:00.170
  • I said, "In about one month." He said, "I'll meet you there.
  • 00:22:00.180 --> 00:22:04.070
  • I'm the deputy speaker of the Knesset.
  • 00:22:04.080 --> 00:22:06.020
  • I have diplomatic immunity.
  • 00:22:06.030 --> 00:22:07.170
  • I'll scan it."
  • 00:22:07.180 --> 00:22:09.060
  • And my toenails curled.
  • 00:22:09.070 --> 00:22:11.220
  • I said, "Okay."
  • 00:22:11.230 --> 00:22:13.180
  • I told him, I said, "Look, that's really illegal
  • 00:22:13.190 --> 00:22:15.200
  • for me to do."
  • 00:22:15.210 --> 00:22:17.030
  • He said, "I'm a Knesset."
  • 00:22:17.040 --> 00:22:18.150
  • Jim Scudder: He has diplomatic immunity.
  • 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:19.280
  • Jim Barfield: He's got diplomatic immunity, not me.
  • 00:22:19.290 --> 00:22:21.240
  • Jim Scudder: But you went on faith.
  • 00:22:21.250 --> 00:22:24.040
  • Jim Barfield: Yeah, we did.
  • 00:22:24.050 --> 00:22:25.180
  • We went out there, me and Chris, Chris Knight and the guys, and
  • 00:22:25.190 --> 00:22:29.050
  • we scanned Qumran.
  • 00:22:29.060 --> 00:22:32.150
  • He operated the machine.
  • 00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:34.040
  • It was under his authority, under his control.
  • 00:22:34.050 --> 00:22:36.020
  • We scanned it, and we scanned four locations, and they came
  • 00:22:36.030 --> 00:22:41.060
  • back with amazing amounts of signals for nonferrous metal.
  • 00:22:41.070 --> 00:22:47.000
  • Chris: It went fast.
  • 00:22:47.010 --> 00:22:49.020
  • I can tell you, I felt like we went in, we did all these scans,
  • 00:22:49.030 --> 00:22:52.010
  • and then we were done, and I remember thinking when we left,
  • 00:22:52.020 --> 00:22:54.070
  • I thought, "Oh, man, if we actually got some hits at the
  • 00:22:54.080 --> 00:22:56.120
  • cave--" 'cause that's the big spot.
  • 00:22:56.130 --> 00:22:58.000
  • Anything that's out there, the cave will be the hot spot.
  • 00:22:58.010 --> 00:23:01.040
  • Jim Scudder: Wouldn't that be the place, though, that they
  • 00:23:01.050 --> 00:23:03.160
  • would just do the test?
  • 00:23:03.170 --> 00:23:05.060
  • You know, go ahead and do the full test up to where Jim says,
  • 00:23:05.070 --> 00:23:08.070
  • "Okay, we've exhausted all--"
  • 00:23:08.080 --> 00:23:11.010
  • Because you're not disturbing an archaeological ruin?
  • 00:23:11.020 --> 00:23:13.270
  • Jim Scudder: And when you were scanning and you were doing
  • 00:23:13.280 --> 00:23:15.220
  • this covertly, kind of, you didn't know what
  • 00:23:15.230 --> 00:23:19.070
  • the results were?
  • 00:23:19.080 --> 00:23:20.210
  • Jim Barfield: No, I had no idea.
  • 00:23:20.220 --> 00:23:22.060
  • Jim Scudder: You were just collecting data onto a card or
  • 00:23:22.070 --> 00:23:23.160
  • chip or something?
  • 00:23:23.170 --> 00:23:25.030
  • Jim Barfield: Yeah, had no idea until we got to En Gedi,
  • 00:23:25.040 --> 00:23:26.140
  • what we were gonna get, and, boy, was I relieved when I saw
  • 00:23:26.150 --> 00:23:29.010
  • that thing light up.
  • 00:23:29.020 --> 00:23:30.280
  • That area, that area, this room right here, and the last one, of
  • 00:23:30.290 --> 00:23:35.040
  • course, fourth one, is way out here--
  • 00:23:35.050 --> 00:23:37.010
  • Jim Scudder: And you just cannot--
  • 00:23:37.020 --> 00:23:38.150
  • Jim Barfield: And we scanned the cave, and oh, my goodness.
  • 00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:41.000
  • Jim Scudder: How do you see this discovery impact that
  • 00:23:41.010 --> 00:23:43.270
  • rebuilding of the Jewish Temple?
  • 00:23:43.280 --> 00:23:45.260
  • Jim Barfield: The rabbi said, "It will be a revival in Israel
  • 00:23:45.270 --> 00:23:51.260
  • like they have never seen."
  • 00:23:51.270 --> 00:23:54.110
  • Chris: There's a high potential that the Ark is there.
  • 00:23:54.120 --> 00:23:56.040
  • That alone is a marker.
  • 00:23:56.050 --> 00:23:58.100
  • If that thing comes out, you might as well just mark your
  • 00:23:58.110 --> 00:24:01.080
  • calendar and say, "This is it."
  • 00:24:01.090 --> 00:24:04.000
  • Jim Barfield: But it has to happen exactly at the moment
  • 00:24:04.010 --> 00:24:06.250
  • when God says, "Now."
  • 00:24:06.260 --> 00:24:09.230
  • That's whenever the first item will come out of the ground or
  • 00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:12.170
  • the first glimpse of what we hope is the cave will happen,
  • 00:24:12.180 --> 00:24:17.040
  • but it's not gonna happen till God says, "It's time."
  • 00:24:17.050 --> 00:24:18.290
  • Jim Scudder: Well, this is where we need to end our program
  • 00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:22.060
  • today, but before we go, let me encourage you, the most
  • 00:24:22.070 --> 00:24:25.250
  • important thing for you--yeah, this is all exciting, the Copper
  • 00:24:25.260 --> 00:24:29.080
  • Scroll, Temple treasure, gold and silver--there's nothing more
  • 00:24:29.090 --> 00:24:33.030
  • important than knowing for sure that you're on your way
  • 00:24:33.040 --> 00:24:36.050
  • to heaven.
  • 00:24:36.060 --> 00:24:37.150
  • Have you ever received that free gift of eternal life?
  • 00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:39.220
  • Have you ever drank of the living water?
  • 00:24:39.230 --> 00:24:41.260
  • Jesus said he is the living water.
  • 00:24:41.270 --> 00:24:43.290
  • He said, "I am the door."
  • 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:45.100
  • You have to go through the door, Jesus, to be saved from
  • 00:24:45.110 --> 00:24:48.040
  • hell to heaven.
  • 00:24:48.050 --> 00:24:49.140
  • You must trust in the Lord Jesus Christ as your only hope.
  • 00:24:49.150 --> 00:24:53.030
  • He died on a cross.
  • 00:24:53.040 --> 00:24:54.160
  • He rose again, and by believing in him, the Bible says we pass
  • 00:24:54.170 --> 00:24:58.160
  • from death to life.
  • 00:24:58.170 --> 00:25:00.240
  • Yeah, these treasures are incredible, and they're
  • 00:25:00.250 --> 00:25:02.250
  • wonderful and exciting, but more important is the treasure that
  • 00:25:02.260 --> 00:25:06.040
  • we have in Jesus, by trusting in him that he died and rose again
  • 00:25:06.050 --> 00:25:09.120
  • for us.
  • 00:25:09.130 --> 00:25:10.260
  • By trusting in him, we will have eternal life.
  • 00:25:10.270 --> 00:25:13.220
  • John 3:16, says, "For God so loved the world, that he gave
  • 00:25:13.230 --> 00:25:17.070
  • his only begotten Son, that whosoever--" that's you and me--
  • 00:25:17.080 --> 00:25:21.290
  • "believeth in him--" that's to trust in him, not by works, but
  • 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:24.260
  • by believing in him-- "should not perish," which is hell, "but
  • 00:25:24.270 --> 00:25:28.100
  • have everlasting life," which is heaven.
  • 00:25:28.110 --> 00:25:31.230
  • My friend, that is the good news: "Believe in the Lord
  • 00:25:31.240 --> 00:25:33.220
  • Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved."
  • 00:25:33.230 --> 00:25:37.050
  • 00:25:37.190 --> 00:25:41.200
  • Jim Scudder: I believe you should get
  • 00:25:44.080 --> 00:25:45.240
  • "The Copper Scroll" DVD.
  • 00:25:45.250 --> 00:25:48.060
  • Learn more about "The Copper Scroll," and you'll also be
  • 00:25:48.070 --> 00:25:50.280
  • blessed to learn more about Israel and about the incredible
  • 00:25:50.290 --> 00:25:54.140
  • land of Israel.
  • 00:25:54.150 --> 00:25:56.020
  • Another item that you really should get is this book by
  • 00:25:56.030 --> 00:25:58.240
  • Shelley Neese, "The Copper Scroll Project."
  • 00:25:58.250 --> 00:26:01.160
  • It will tell you the whole story that we couldn't even possibly
  • 00:26:01.170 --> 00:26:04.220
  • fit into the DVD.
  • 00:26:04.230 --> 00:26:06.140
  • "The Copper Scroll Project," a great book, you can get it from
  • 00:26:06.150 --> 00:26:09.200
  • us here at InGrace.
  • 00:26:09.210 --> 00:26:11.240
  • announcer: Discover the location of priceless Temple
  • 00:26:12.020 --> 00:26:13.230
  • treasure with InGrace's series, "The Copper Scroll."
  • 00:26:13.240 --> 00:26:17.250
  • This three-part, full-length DVD series is available today for
  • 00:26:17.260 --> 00:26:21.070
  • your gift of any amount to InGrace.
  • 00:26:21.080 --> 00:26:23.270
  • When you give a gift of $35 or more, we will also include the
  • 00:26:23.280 --> 00:26:27.030
  • book "The Copper Scroll Project," from author
  • 00:26:27.040 --> 00:26:30.090
  • Shelley Neese.
  • 00:26:30.100 --> 00:26:31.250
  • Call 800-78-GRACE, or visit ingrace.tv, to order today.
  • 00:26:31.260 --> 00:26:36.010
  • Don't miss this exciting opportunity to get your copy.
  • 00:26:36.020 --> 00:26:39.290
  • announcer: On the next episode of "The Copper Scroll,"
  • 00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:49.000
  • Jim Scudder, Jr., and Shelley Neese travel to Qumran, Israel,
  • 00:26:49.010 --> 00:26:52.190
  • to find buried treasure.
  • 00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:54.260
  • Shelley Neese: The idea, too, that this would have been a
  • 00:26:54.270 --> 00:26:56.210
  • known site for the treasury at Qumran and that they would've
  • 00:26:56.220 --> 00:26:59.170
  • taken things out of the treasury, hid them at Qumran,
  • 00:26:59.180 --> 00:27:02.200
  • hid them at the cave, and then documented it later on a Copper
  • 00:27:02.210 --> 00:27:05.200
  • Scroll, doesn't seem like the biggest leap of a logic.
  • 00:27:05.210 --> 00:27:09.160
  • That seems like a narrative that could've easily taken place.
  • 00:27:09.170 --> 00:27:12.290
  • announcer: InGrace is a viewer-supported ministry.
  • 00:27:18.230 --> 00:27:20.220
  • Thank you for your prayers and gifts.
  • 00:27:20.230 --> 00:27:24.160