Happily Ever After? | TBN

Happily Ever After?

Watch Happily Ever After?
June 9, 2019
27:29

It Is Written with John Bradshaw

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Happily Ever After?

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  • -John Bradshaw: This is It Is Written.
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  • I'm John Bradshaw. Thanks for joining me.
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  • Everybody has dreams, and we like to think
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  • that our dreams come true, but they don't always.
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  • What happens when you have dreams, big dreams, life goals,
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  • and those dreams come crashing down around you?
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  • And when they do, what then?
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  • Is God able to give back to you what was taken away?
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  • My special guest today is Juliet Van Heerden.
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  • She is an author, public speaker.
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  • She is a teacher and the wife of a pastor.
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  • Juliet's story is a story experienced by many people
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  • all around the world.
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  • Juliet, thanks for joining me today and sharing your story.
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  • I appreciate you being here.
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  • -Juliet Van Heerden: Thank you for the invitation.
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  • -John: Hey, let's go back to about where you think
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  • the beginning is.
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  • Where does your story-- it's a fascinating story;
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  • it's a moving story, a very powerful story,
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  • and a story that's going to impact a lot of lives
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  • as you share it.
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  • So where does this story begin?
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  • -Juliet: I grew up in a Christian, um, family,
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  • Christian home.
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  • My mom is a very, um, devout Christian woman.
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  • But I am the product of divorce,
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  • and my parents divorced when I was four.
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  • And then when I was 14, um, there was another divorce.
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  • And so I was a child who experienced the feelings
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  • of abandonment and the idea that happily ever after
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  • doesn't always turn out that way.
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  • And I made a vow to myself as a child
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  • that I would never get divorced.
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  • And I didn't want that legacy,
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  • and that was a promise that I made to myself
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  • and really ended up trying very hard to keep.
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  • -John: So, as you were journeying through life
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  • towards the fulfillment of all your plans and dreams,
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  • where did that journey take you?
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  • -Juliet: I graduated from college,
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  • and I thought that I was being left behind
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  • as I was the bridesmaid in several weddings
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  • and not the bride.
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  • And so I feel like probably I rushed God a little bit
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  • and pushed ahead and chose a mate for myself
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  • that might not have been the mate
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  • He would have chosen for me.
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  • -John: Walk, walk through that dynamic with me.
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  • You got married along the way.
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  • Tell me how that, how that came to be.
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  • Tell me about the circumstances around your marriage.
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  • -Juliet: I ended up making a decision to marry a person
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  • that I probably would not have consciously chosen,
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  • but sometimes, as a young person, we'll make a compromise.
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  • And I tell young people when I speak to them,
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  • "Be careful who you date.
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  • Be careful who you go on one date with
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  • because that person might end up being the person
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  • you spend the rest of your life with."
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  • And I tell my students, "Do your homework,"
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  • but I didn't do mine,
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  • and I did not even know what questions to ask
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  • a potential spouse.
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  • I didn't, um, I just didn't research.
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  • I took everything at face value. I was a very trusting person.
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  • -John: I remember saying to my fiancée,
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  • "Check me out; do your homework.
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  • Go and talk to the people who make up the fabric of my life."
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  • -Juliet: That's right.
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  • -John: I was scared to death when she actually did.
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  • -Juliet: [Laughs] Ah, but it's good.
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  • -John: When she did that and then said "I do"
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  • was one of the biggest surprises of my life, but...
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  • So that's the sort of thing you're talking about, right?
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  • -Juliet: Mm-hm. Accountability.
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  • -John: Yeah.
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  • So how do you marry someone without really knowing them?
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  • You did.
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  • -Juliet: Right. Well, I mean, you get caught up in the moment.
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  • You, you believe a person.
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  • You take, you take what you see at this moment,
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  • and you don't realize that there's something
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  • behind what you see.
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  • So, I mean, I just felt, I felt excited that someone
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  • was interested in me, that they, um, enjoyed
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  • some of the same things that I enjoyed.
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  • Yes, we had a little bit different, um, background,
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  • but I was an optimist.
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  • I thought that whatever wasn't just right
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  • I could make right.
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  • And, um, I recently heard a sermon where, uh, someone said
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  • women need, need to not think of men as projects,
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  • and men need to not think of women as possessions.
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  • And, um, I think I, I like a project,
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  • and so that might have been part of it, um,
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  • a challenge that, you know, you can, you can change a person.
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  • -John: So in your experience you discovered
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  • you can't change a person?
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  • -Juliet: No.
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  • -John: Did you try?
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  • -Juliet: Oh, yes.
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  • -John: How did you try?
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  • -Juliet: Mm. [Laughs ruefully] I manipulated.
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  • I, I tried to control the person.
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  • I tried to, um, force them into my mold.
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  • And you can't take a person who is who they are
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  • and try to make them someone that you want them to be.
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  • But when I realized things weren't exactly,
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  • um, happily ever after for me,
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  • I, I was really trying very hard to make this person fit into,
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  • into what I thought was the mold for a good Christian husband.
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  • -John: So you've got to accept some imperfections,
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  • some limitations--right?--
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  • -Juliet: Of course.
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  • -John: ...in a person.
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  • But there are some things you should never accept
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  • and think that you're going to be able to change.
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  • How do we know where that line is?
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  • -Juliet: Well, knowing ourselves is important,
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  • you know, knowing, knowing what I can live with and what I,
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  • what I can't, because no one's perfect.
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  • I mean, I wasn't a perfect, um, spouse or a perfect person,
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  • either, and I didn't, um, I really just,
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  • I wasn't sure what to do with the things that I saw
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  • that weren't right,
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  • but I think honesty is like a core foundational, uh, piece.
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  • If, if we have a question about a person's integrity
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  • or about their honesty, or if we catch them in a lie
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  • or something like that, then we really need to not brush--
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  • I would say that to any woman-- don't brush that under the rug.
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  • Really have your radar up.
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  • If you get that feeling like something's fishy,
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  • something's not right, follow through with that.
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  • Don't ignore that.
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  • Because if we are, if we are dealing with a person
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  • who's not honest, then we're going to have serious problems.
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  • -John: Now, if you detect dishonesty
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  • before you walk down the aisle?
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  • -Juliet: Run.
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  • -John: If you detect it after you walk down the aisle,
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  • what do we do then?
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  • -Juliet: Pray.
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  • [Laughs ruefully] It's--I experienced it.
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  • I experienced it, shortly after I walked down the aisle.
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  • Um, I was, I was able to catch the person in the lie.
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  • And it was devastating.
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  • And I really didn't know what to do.
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  • I wanted to undo what I had done,
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  • but remember the vow that I made to myself:
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  • I'm never going to get divorced.
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  • So what do I do?
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  • Well, then you kick into this "I can change this person.
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  • I can fix this person."
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  • Uh, and your prayers become all about "God change this person,"
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  • and you forget that you're also a broken person
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  • in need of a Savior.
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  • -John: You say the thing to do is to pray.
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  • -Juliet: Yes.
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  • -John: But I'm certain you would advocate
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  • some other concrete steps.
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  • Who do you talk to?
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  • I know it will, I know it will depend on what your spouse
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  • is involved in.
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  • -Juliet: What's going on, of course.
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  • -John: But who are the type of people you can turn to
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  • when you're in a marriage and you think to yourself,
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  • "Oh, my goodness, this is not what I signed up for"?
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  • -Juliet: No, I would definitely find a trusted, um, friend,
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  • counselor.
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  • Um, I advocate for recovery groups and a support system
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  • where, where we can be transparent
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  • about what's really going on.
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  • I, I wish that I had been.
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  • If I had been honest and transparent and listened
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  • to godly counsel, I might have made some different decisions,
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  • but I just walled up and kept everything close to me.
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  • -John: How do you advise a young woman or a young man
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  • who is staring the rest of his or her life in the face
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  • and now realizing, uh-oh.
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  • How do they go about extricating themselves from that?
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  • -Juliet: Taking a break from the intensity,
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  • the emotional intensity of what's going on,
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  • and sometimes if things are wrong, um, it's more intense.
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  • There will be pressure from a person to make a quick decision:
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  • "Let's just do this."
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  • You know, that's when you need to raise your eyebrow and go,
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  • "Wait a second. We don't need to rush this thing."
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  • If it's really a solid thing and a good thing,
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  • it will still be there.
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  • But give yourself a moment to breathe,
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  • to pray, to listen to people you trust,
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  • and, um, and come back and say,
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  • "Is this, is this true? Or is this emotion I'm riding?"
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  • -John: In just a moment, when we come back,
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  • I wanna, I want to walk with you through your experience,
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  • your experience that led to divorce,
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  • what went wrong, what might you have done better,
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  • and, uh, in doing so, your story's going to be a help
  • 00:09:32.220 --> 00:09:35.140
  • and a blessing to many other people.
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  • We'll be right back with my conversation
  • 00:09:37.140 --> 00:09:39.160
  • with Juliet Van Heerden in just a moment.
  • 00:09:39.170 --> 00:09:41.280
  • [Music]
  • 00:09:41.290 --> 00:09:49.190
  • -Announcer: Modern life makes forming relationships hard.
  • 00:09:50.290 --> 00:09:53.170
  • We crave a solid family life,
  • 00:09:53.180 --> 00:09:55.040
  • but oftentimes don't know how to create it.
  • 00:09:55.050 --> 00:09:57.190
  • This book can help.
  • 00:09:57.200 --> 00:09:59.070
  • "Hope for Today's Families"
  • 00:09:59.080 --> 00:10:00.120
  • walks you through building relationships,
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  • communicating effectively, and forming bonds for eternity.
  • 00:10:02.070 --> 00:10:05.040
  • Get "Hope for Today's Families."
  • 00:10:05.050 --> 00:10:07.070
  • It's free.
  • 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:08.070
  • Call 800-253-3000
  • 00:10:08.080 --> 00:10:11.200
  • or visit us online today at iiwoffer.com.
  • 00:10:11.210 --> 00:10:15.270
  • Hope is just a call away: 800-253-3000.
  • 00:10:15.280 --> 00:10:20.180
  • [Soft piano music]
  • 00:10:21.130 --> 00:10:26.070
  • -Man 1: What does the Bible say about astrology?
  • 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:28.200
  • -Man 2: Why do bad things happen to good people?
  • 00:10:33.040 --> 00:10:36.120
  • -Girl: What color is Jesus?
  • 00:10:41.040 --> 00:10:44.090
  • -John Bradshaw: If you have a question,
  • 00:10:44.100 --> 00:10:45.090
  • we'd love to find an answer
  • 00:10:45.100 --> 00:10:46.180
  • for you from the Bible.
  • 00:10:46.190 --> 00:10:48.040
  • Line Upon Line
  • 00:10:48.050 --> 00:10:48.290
  • from It Is Written TV.
  • 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:51.000
  • -John Bradshaw: Thanks for joining me today
  • 00:10:51.230 --> 00:10:53.120
  • on It Is Written.
  • 00:10:53.130 --> 00:10:54.180
  • I'm John Bradshaw, and my guest is public speaker, author,
  • 00:10:54.190 --> 00:10:58.080
  • and teacher Juliet Van Heerden.
  • 00:10:58.090 --> 00:11:01.080
  • Juliet, let's go back to-- we, we spoke to the issues
  • 00:11:01.090 --> 00:11:05.100
  • surrounding about, surrounding marriages and mistakes
  • 00:11:05.110 --> 00:11:08.220
  • and who to speak to and when and so on,
  • 00:11:08.230 --> 00:11:10.160
  • but let's talk about your experience.
  • 00:11:10.170 --> 00:11:12.120
  • You walk down the aisle. You said "I do."
  • 00:11:12.130 --> 00:11:14.090
  • You were the happiest girl in the world.
  • 00:11:14.100 --> 00:11:16.000
  • -Juliet Van Heerden: I was.
  • 00:11:16.010 --> 00:11:17.070
  • And I, I thought that I was doing right because I did marry
  • 00:11:17.080 --> 00:11:20.230
  • someone who was a Christian, and, um, who had promised
  • 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:25.210
  • to come to church, and we did pray together.
  • 00:11:25.220 --> 00:11:29.100
  • So there were, there were a lot of things that were positive
  • 00:11:29.110 --> 00:11:32.080
  • and right and good,
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  • and we had a relationship that I felt was real.
  • 00:11:33.140 --> 00:11:38.080
  • And, um, then I started noticing that things were not always
  • 00:11:38.090 --> 00:11:44.260
  • what they seemed to be.
  • 00:11:44.270 --> 00:11:46.260
  • -John: What did you notice that really bothered you?
  • 00:11:46.270 --> 00:11:49.030
  • -Juliet: I call him "John."
  • 00:11:49.040 --> 00:11:50.130
  • It's not his real name, but we'll call him "John"
  • 00:11:50.140 --> 00:11:52.020
  • because I want him to be like a real person,
  • 00:11:52.030 --> 00:11:54.140
  • and, um, I'm definitely not wanting to vilify him
  • 00:11:54.150 --> 00:11:58.090
  • as a person.
  • 00:11:58.100 --> 00:11:58.290
  • -John: Sure.
  • 00:11:59.000 --> 00:11:59.280
  • -Juliet: He was, you know, a human being.
  • 00:11:59.290 --> 00:12:01.020
  • But when, when money wasn't accounted for,
  • 00:12:01.030 --> 00:12:06.270
  • when, uh, things didn't add up, stories didn't add up.
  • 00:12:06.280 --> 00:12:13.070
  • Uh, we started getting into debt.
  • 00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:15.230
  • He would have unexplained illness a lot of times.
  • 00:12:15.240 --> 00:12:19.170
  • A lot of accidents would happen to him.
  • 00:12:19.180 --> 00:12:22.040
  • He worked in construction.
  • 00:12:22.050 --> 00:12:24.040
  • And sometimes weird things would happen that, you know,
  • 00:12:24.050 --> 00:12:28.240
  • the staple gun went through the hand, or--
  • 00:12:28.250 --> 00:12:31.170
  • [Laughs] you know, just, just too many accidents.
  • 00:12:31.180 --> 00:12:35.150
  • -John: And what was it?
  • 00:12:35.160 --> 00:12:36.260
  • -Juliet: It was cocaine.
  • 00:12:36.270 --> 00:12:39.120
  • -John: Let me ask this first,
  • 00:12:39.130 --> 00:12:40.140
  • and then I'll ask for your response.
  • 00:12:40.150 --> 00:12:41.180
  • When did you realize you were married to a drug addict?
  • 00:12:41.190 --> 00:12:44.290
  • -Juliet: Yeah, it was basically kind of
  • 00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:47.030
  • all around the same time.
  • 00:12:47.040 --> 00:12:48.020
  • -John: Yeah.
  • 00:12:48.030 --> 00:12:49.080
  • -Juliet: But he was so addicted by that time that he was,
  • 00:12:49.090 --> 00:12:51.200
  • like it was kind of life or death at that point in time.
  • 00:12:51.210 --> 00:12:55.010
  • And I had reached out to someone,
  • 00:12:55.020 --> 00:12:57.110
  • to a substance-abuse counselor, and they said,
  • 00:12:57.120 --> 00:12:59.210
  • "Look, it's going to be the cemetery or the rehab.
  • 00:12:59.220 --> 00:13:03.100
  • Your choice."
  • 00:13:03.110 --> 00:13:04.070
  • That's what they said to him.
  • 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:05.250
  • -John: What did he choose?
  • 00:13:05.260 --> 00:13:06.290
  • -Juliet: He chose the rehab.
  • 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:07.290
  • -John: How did it go?
  • 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:09.040
  • -Juliet: I thought it went great.
  • 00:13:09.050 --> 00:13:10.290
  • [Laughs] I thought it went great.
  • 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:13.200
  • He checked in for, for 28 days, and he did stay clean.
  • 00:13:13.210 --> 00:13:17.280
  • -John: So things turned around?
  • 00:13:17.290 --> 00:13:19.230
  • -Juliet: Mm-hm.
  • 00:13:19.240 --> 00:13:20.130
  • -John: For how long?
  • 00:13:20.140 --> 00:13:21.030
  • -Juliet: For a while.
  • 00:13:21.040 --> 00:13:22.030
  • -John: Yeah?
  • 00:13:22.040 --> 00:13:22.230
  • -Juliet: For a while. Um...
  • 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:24.110
  • -John: And how did you notice?
  • 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:25.100
  • -Juliet: I...
  • 00:13:25.110 --> 00:13:26.080
  • -John: How did you notice that things were
  • 00:13:26.090 --> 00:13:27.130
  • no longer going well?
  • 00:13:27.140 --> 00:13:28.070
  • -Juliet: Oh, man, I never knew.
  • 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:29.140
  • Like, it was, I never knew.
  • 00:13:29.150 --> 00:13:30.140
  • Even those first six years of marriage,
  • 00:13:30.150 --> 00:13:32.040
  • like, sometimes he was using, sometimes he wasn't;
  • 00:13:32.050 --> 00:13:34.010
  • sometimes he was clean; sometimes he wasn't.
  • 00:13:34.020 --> 00:13:35.200
  • I, I never knew where he was
  • 00:13:35.210 --> 00:13:38.040
  • because I think he didn't want to be the slave to this, either.
  • 00:13:38.050 --> 00:13:41.130
  • -John: What would he be like when he relapsed?
  • 00:13:41.140 --> 00:13:43.090
  • How would that affect him emotionally and physically?
  • 00:13:43.100 --> 00:13:46.220
  • -Juliet: Well, once he got clean and sober,
  • 00:13:46.230 --> 00:13:50.280
  • he was back to normal, and we would just try to go on
  • 00:13:50.290 --> 00:13:53.260
  • with life, you know, back to church, back to work,
  • 00:13:53.270 --> 00:13:56.210
  • back to, you know, tried to have some semblance of normalcy
  • 00:13:56.220 --> 00:13:59.220
  • in our marriage.
  • 00:13:59.230 --> 00:14:00.220
  • And, um, and then when he would relapse,
  • 00:14:00.230 --> 00:14:04.100
  • he would just disappear.
  • 00:14:04.110 --> 00:14:05.100
  • He would disappear, sometimes for days,
  • 00:14:05.110 --> 00:14:07.050
  • usually on a Friday because that's payday,
  • 00:14:07.060 --> 00:14:09.230
  • and, um, you know, come home when the money was gone.
  • 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:13.110
  • -John: You've said you like a project,
  • 00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:14.210
  • and you like to fix things.
  • 00:14:14.220 --> 00:14:15.220
  • -Juliet: Yes.
  • 00:14:15.230 --> 00:14:16.200
  • -John: So did you get about fixing him?
  • 00:14:16.210 --> 00:14:17.270
  • -Juliet: Yes.
  • 00:14:17.280 --> 00:14:19.010
  • -John: Did you think, "Okay, we're gonna fix this"?
  • 00:14:19.020 --> 00:14:20.150
  • How did you endeavor to fix it?
  • 00:14:20.160 --> 00:14:21.270
  • -Juliet: So, I was afraid that he was gonna die.
  • 00:14:21.280 --> 00:14:23.270
  • I was afraid that he was gonna OD.
  • 00:14:23.280 --> 00:14:25.240
  • I was afraid that someone would find out
  • 00:14:25.250 --> 00:14:27.270
  • about our dirty family secret.
  • 00:14:27.280 --> 00:14:29.220
  • And so I tried to control everything.
  • 00:14:29.230 --> 00:14:31.230
  • I, I tried to control every penny.
  • 00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:33.280
  • You, you have your boss write the paycheck to me.
  • 00:14:33.290 --> 00:14:36.230
  • I'm going to control the finances,
  • 00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:38.270
  • and I'll give you an allowance, just what you need.
  • 00:14:38.280 --> 00:14:41.180
  • But that was the way that I coped.
  • 00:14:41.190 --> 00:14:44.000
  • Um, crack down and control.
  • 00:14:44.010 --> 00:14:45.220
  • Well, then you're not a spouse;
  • 00:14:45.230 --> 00:14:47.130
  • you're, you're a mother, a bad one,
  • 00:14:47.140 --> 00:14:49.280
  • [Laughs] you know.
  • 00:14:49.290 --> 00:14:51.160
  • -John: And, and evidently that's not what you planned.
  • 00:14:51.170 --> 00:14:54.090
  • -Juliet: No.
  • 00:14:54.100 --> 00:14:55.050
  • -John: What was that doing to you?
  • 00:14:55.060 --> 00:14:56.120
  • -Juliet: No. It was tearing me up.
  • 00:14:56.130 --> 00:14:57.220
  • I was, I was sick. I had ulcers.
  • 00:14:57.230 --> 00:15:00.040
  • I was, um, constantly stressed out.
  • 00:15:00.050 --> 00:15:03.140
  • I was... The controlling thing just didn't work.
  • 00:15:03.150 --> 00:15:08.140
  • But I couldn't stop being controlling.
  • 00:15:08.150 --> 00:15:11.040
  • -John: How many people--I'm getting ahead of myself here--
  • 00:15:11.050 --> 00:15:14.020
  • how common is this in church?
  • 00:15:14.030 --> 00:15:18.160
  • Not just in society--in church, for families to be dealing
  • 00:15:18.170 --> 00:15:21.270
  • with someone who's battling addiction issues--
  • 00:15:21.280 --> 00:15:24.250
  • how common?
  • 00:15:24.260 --> 00:15:25.290
  • -Juliet: I would venture to say every family has someone
  • 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:31.140
  • that they love or care about who's addicted to something,
  • 00:15:31.150 --> 00:15:35.080
  • either chemical dependency, um, pornography.
  • 00:15:35.090 --> 00:15:40.040
  • -John: As your husband was descending
  • 00:15:40.050 --> 00:15:43.070
  • into self-destruction,
  • 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:45.130
  • and your marriage was starting to unravel,
  • 00:15:45.140 --> 00:15:48.020
  • what was this doing to you spiritually?
  • 00:15:48.030 --> 00:15:51.170
  • -Juliet: I was really having a spiritual awakening.
  • 00:15:51.180 --> 00:15:54.140
  • I was, I was learning to trust God and to love Him
  • 00:15:54.150 --> 00:16:00.090
  • and to know that He loved me.
  • 00:16:00.100 --> 00:16:01.260
  • I, it makes me just emotional just thinking about how God
  • 00:16:01.270 --> 00:16:06.270
  • opened my eyes to His love for me.
  • 00:16:06.280 --> 00:16:08.180
  • And I grew up knowing about God's love,
  • 00:16:08.190 --> 00:16:11.070
  • singing "Jesus loves me, this I know."
  • 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:14.070
  • I knew what God's Word said,
  • 00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:16.120
  • but through that experience I learned to trust Him.
  • 00:16:16.130 --> 00:16:20.090
  • -John: See, I can imagine a person saying,
  • 00:16:20.100 --> 00:16:22.180
  • "Spiritually I was devastated,
  • 00:16:22.190 --> 00:16:24.020
  • and I felt like I was a million miles from God,"
  • 00:16:24.030 --> 00:16:26.040
  • and I know that happens to people.
  • 00:16:26.050 --> 00:16:27.140
  • It didn't happen to you.
  • 00:16:27.150 --> 00:16:28.280
  • What was going on that this experience
  • 00:16:28.290 --> 00:16:31.010
  • drew you closer to God?
  • 00:16:31.020 --> 00:16:33.140
  • This, I think is a, is a very key point
  • 00:16:33.150 --> 00:16:36.020
  • because a lot of people end up adrift and without hope.
  • 00:16:36.030 --> 00:16:39.090
  • -Juliet: Right.
  • 00:16:39.100 --> 00:16:40.110
  • -John: What was it about you or your experience
  • 00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:42.090
  • or your upbringing or your faith community
  • 00:16:42.100 --> 00:16:44.180
  • that saw this experience draw you closer to God?
  • 00:16:44.190 --> 00:16:48.280
  • What made the difference?
  • 00:16:48.290 --> 00:16:50.090
  • -Juliet: You know, I should have spoken with others,
  • 00:16:50.100 --> 00:16:52.230
  • but I didn't.
  • 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:53.210
  • And so God was who I talked to,
  • 00:16:53.220 --> 00:16:55.230
  • and I talked to Him, like when I was driving to school,
  • 00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:58.180
  • I would have to put myself together because to be able
  • 00:16:58.190 --> 00:17:01.190
  • to smile and be sweet to first grade children,
  • 00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:04.160
  • you know, you have to,
  • 00:17:04.170 --> 00:17:05.210
  • you have to get it together before you get to school.
  • 00:17:05.220 --> 00:17:07.240
  • And so that was my time
  • 00:17:07.250 --> 00:17:09.000
  • where I would just pour my heart out to God as I'm driving.
  • 00:17:09.010 --> 00:17:11.120
  • Like, "Lord, I, I've got work to do today. I need You to help me.
  • 00:17:11.130 --> 00:17:14.280
  • [Voice quavers] Help me focus on loving these kids."
  • 00:17:14.290 --> 00:17:17.250
  • And He would do it.
  • 00:17:17.260 --> 00:17:19.250
  • Like, I could just feel the peace of God come over me,
  • 00:17:19.260 --> 00:17:22.230
  • and I could do my work; I could do my job.
  • 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:24.270
  • I could, I could love on the kids at school.
  • 00:17:24.280 --> 00:17:28.010
  • And, and when I poured my heart out to the Lord,
  • 00:17:28.020 --> 00:17:30.220
  • He came, and He was very real to me.
  • 00:17:30.230 --> 00:17:35.070
  • -John: So where would you be now, do you think,
  • 00:17:35.080 --> 00:17:37.130
  • if you didn't have God to lean on?
  • 00:17:37.140 --> 00:17:39.170
  • -Juliet: I would have driven my car off a bridge
  • 00:17:39.180 --> 00:17:41.280
  • or slit my wrists or done something awful.
  • 00:17:41.290 --> 00:17:44.270
  • -John: And something kept you from that?
  • 00:17:44.280 --> 00:17:46.290
  • -Juliet: Yes.
  • 00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:47.250
  • I didn't, I didn't want to hurt Him.
  • 00:17:47.260 --> 00:17:49.260
  • I didn't want to hurt my friend God.
  • 00:17:49.270 --> 00:17:52.190
  • And I believe that you're not ever alone.
  • 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:56.030
  • We are never alone.
  • 00:17:56.040 --> 00:17:57.200
  • -John: We're going to talk about that in just a moment.
  • 00:17:57.210 --> 00:17:59.160
  • He's always there, and He's always for you.
  • 00:17:59.170 --> 00:18:03.260
  • More of my conversation with Juliet Van Heerden
  • 00:18:03.270 --> 00:18:06.170
  • in just a moment.
  • 00:18:06.180 --> 00:18:07.290
  • [Music]
  • 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:14.280
  • -John: Thank you for remembering
  • 00:18:16.270 --> 00:18:17.280
  • that It Is Written exists
  • 00:18:17.290 --> 00:18:19.140
  • because of the kindness of people just like you.
  • 00:18:19.150 --> 00:18:22.080
  • To support this international life-changing ministry,
  • 00:18:22.090 --> 00:18:25.150
  • please call us now at 800-253-3000.
  • 00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:29.230
  • You can send your tax-deductible gift
  • 00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:31.070
  • to the address on your screen,
  • 00:18:31.080 --> 00:18:32.210
  • or you can visit us online at itiswritten.com.
  • 00:18:32.220 --> 00:18:36.160
  • Thank you for your prayers and for your financial support.
  • 00:18:36.170 --> 00:18:39.110
  • Our number again is 800-253-3000,
  • 00:18:39.120 --> 00:18:43.110
  • or you can visit us online at itiswritten.com.
  • 00:18:43.120 --> 00:18:46.220
  • -John Bradshaw: Thanks for joining me today
  • 00:18:47.230 --> 00:18:49.170
  • on It Is Written.
  • 00:18:49.180 --> 00:18:51.030
  • My guest, Juliet Van Heerden, is sharing her story of addiction,
  • 00:18:51.040 --> 00:18:55.110
  • codependency, recovery,
  • 00:18:55.120 --> 00:18:57.280
  • and the miracle of God's restoration in her life.
  • 00:18:57.290 --> 00:19:01.070
  • Okay. Your husband is drug-addicted.
  • 00:19:01.080 --> 00:19:04.280
  • He's lying; he's sick; he's in and out of rehab;
  • 00:19:04.290 --> 00:19:08.170
  • your home has been robbed.
  • 00:19:08.180 --> 00:19:11.200
  • You were divorced.
  • 00:19:11.210 --> 00:19:13.090
  • How'd that happen?
  • 00:19:13.100 --> 00:19:14.090
  • How did you finally get to the point,
  • 00:19:14.100 --> 00:19:16.010
  • or how did circumstances bring you to the place
  • 00:19:16.020 --> 00:19:18.040
  • where this is over and it's not getting better?
  • 00:19:18.050 --> 00:19:20.240
  • -Juliet Van Heerden: Um, well, "John" just said to me,
  • 00:19:20.250 --> 00:19:23.010
  • "I am tired of living the double life.
  • 00:19:23.020 --> 00:19:25.190
  • I don't want to be the Christian husband that you want me to be.
  • 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:30.200
  • I want to drink what I want, smoke what I want,
  • 00:19:30.210 --> 00:19:36.000
  • watch what I want, snort what I want."
  • 00:19:36.010 --> 00:19:39.170
  • And I was able to walk away feeling relieved.
  • 00:19:39.180 --> 00:19:45.280
  • -John: I wanted to ask you about that.
  • 00:19:45.290 --> 00:19:48.090
  • When he says, "I'm done."
  • 00:19:48.100 --> 00:19:49.230
  • -Juliet: Mm-hm.
  • 00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:50.190
  • -John: Was there pain by that stage?
  • 00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:52.230
  • You said "relief."
  • 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:54.170
  • So, it wasn't as painful as if he'd said that
  • 00:19:54.180 --> 00:19:58.280
  • a number of years earlier?
  • 00:19:58.290 --> 00:20:00.100
  • -Juliet: I just felt like I had done my absolute best
  • 00:20:00.110 --> 00:20:04.060
  • and given it everything that I could possibly do,
  • 00:20:04.070 --> 00:20:07.000
  • but a person is free to make their own choices.
  • 00:20:07.010 --> 00:20:10.020
  • -John: Offer a word of encouragement to somebody
  • 00:20:10.030 --> 00:20:11.290
  • who might be in the situation that you were in then,
  • 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:14.010
  • and they feel like, "If I don't hang in here to the grim death,
  • 00:20:14.020 --> 00:20:17.210
  • then somehow I've let God down."
  • 00:20:17.220 --> 00:20:19.080
  • How do you know, how do you know when you've done your best,
  • 00:20:19.090 --> 00:20:22.110
  • and it's time to let go?
  • 00:20:22.120 --> 00:20:23.260
  • -Juliet: Well, I think, I think the Lord lets us know.
  • 00:20:23.270 --> 00:20:27.060
  • And sometimes we hang on...
  • 00:20:27.070 --> 00:20:29.220
  • beyond the point where God has released us.
  • 00:20:29.230 --> 00:20:33.270
  • And God--it is not God's desire for anyone to be
  • 00:20:33.280 --> 00:20:37.270
  • in an abusive situation.
  • 00:20:37.280 --> 00:20:40.020
  • And I had a very difficult time using the word "abuse"
  • 00:20:40.030 --> 00:20:43.080
  • to describe, um, my marriage.
  • 00:20:43.090 --> 00:20:47.050
  • But, as I look back, I can say I was in an abusive marriage.
  • 00:20:47.060 --> 00:20:52.150
  • I was being financially abused.
  • 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:54.110
  • I was being emotionally neglected, verbally abused.
  • 00:20:54.120 --> 00:20:59.240
  • And, and so, as I look at that, I know that's not God's will,
  • 00:20:59.250 --> 00:21:03.220
  • and that, and that's not God's plan for us.
  • 00:21:03.230 --> 00:21:05.270
  • We need to be safe.
  • 00:21:05.280 --> 00:21:07.190
  • And sometimes God makes provision for, for people.
  • 00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:12.090
  • Um, He says He hates divorce.
  • 00:21:12.100 --> 00:21:14.150
  • Yes, He does because it's painful and devastating.
  • 00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:18.040
  • But there is provision.
  • 00:21:18.050 --> 00:21:19.210
  • There are, there are times when it's a relief.
  • 00:21:19.220 --> 00:21:23.220
  • -John: Back up a few years.
  • 00:21:23.230 --> 00:21:24.220
  • -Juliet: Yes.
  • 00:21:24.230 --> 00:21:25.220
  • -John: You were worried that someone might learn
  • 00:21:25.230 --> 00:21:26.180
  • your dirty little secret.
  • 00:21:26.190 --> 00:21:27.180
  • Now, years later--
  • 00:21:27.190 --> 00:21:28.270
  • -Juliet: Yes.
  • 00:21:28.280 --> 00:21:30.030
  • -John: ...the secret's out, and yet people embraced you.
  • 00:21:30.040 --> 00:21:32.000
  • -Juliet: They embraced me, and they loved me.
  • 00:21:32.010 --> 00:21:33.260
  • And they loved "John" through it, too.
  • 00:21:33.270 --> 00:21:35.150
  • I mean, once we started sharing,
  • 00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:37.170
  • we found that people embraced us and loved us through it.
  • 00:21:37.180 --> 00:21:41.130
  • And it was beautiful to just be like,
  • 00:21:41.140 --> 00:21:44.240
  • oh, I don't have to carry this burden of a secret anymore.
  • 00:21:44.250 --> 00:21:49.140
  • So, I, I would encourage people: Please share.
  • 00:21:49.150 --> 00:21:53.060
  • Find a safe place and share with somebody.
  • 00:21:53.070 --> 00:21:55.090
  • Don't hold it.
  • 00:21:55.100 --> 00:21:56.160
  • -John: Along the way, you wrote a book.
  • 00:21:56.170 --> 00:21:58.060
  • -Juliet: Yes.
  • 00:21:58.070 --> 00:21:59.010
  • -John: "Same Dress, Different Day."
  • 00:21:59.020 --> 00:22:00.170
  • -Juliet: Yes.
  • 00:22:00.180 --> 00:22:01.120
  • -John: Why did you write the book?
  • 00:22:01.130 --> 00:22:03.080
  • -Juliet: Believe me, I didn't want to.
  • 00:22:03.090 --> 00:22:05.060
  • Um, for, for doing public speaking now
  • 00:22:05.070 --> 00:22:08.270
  • and for being a teacher, I'm actually an introvert,
  • 00:22:08.280 --> 00:22:12.040
  • and I'm a very private person.
  • 00:22:12.050 --> 00:22:14.060
  • And that's why I kept my mouth closed for so long about things.
  • 00:22:14.070 --> 00:22:17.180
  • I did not want to write this book.
  • 00:22:17.190 --> 00:22:19.120
  • I am a writer. I love to write.
  • 00:22:19.130 --> 00:22:21.250
  • But I was, you know, journaling and writing for myself,
  • 00:22:21.260 --> 00:22:25.100
  • never thinking I would tell my story to other people.
  • 00:22:25.110 --> 00:22:28.130
  • But the Holy Spirit just kept on me about this,
  • 00:22:28.140 --> 00:22:30.290
  • that, that you need to share this story
  • 00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:33.060
  • because it will bring hope to others.
  • 00:22:33.070 --> 00:22:35.030
  • And as a pastor's wife, I started hearing the stories
  • 00:22:35.040 --> 00:22:38.020
  • of people in church who were suffering,
  • 00:22:38.030 --> 00:22:39.240
  • families that are suffering with the same kind of problems
  • 00:22:39.250 --> 00:22:42.180
  • that I experienced.
  • 00:22:42.190 --> 00:22:44.040
  • And I really had so much compassion for them,
  • 00:22:44.050 --> 00:22:46.110
  • and, and a few people said to me,
  • 00:22:46.120 --> 00:22:47.270
  • "You need to share your story. You need to write your story.
  • 00:22:47.280 --> 00:22:50.110
  • You need to write your story."
  • 00:22:50.120 --> 00:22:51.150
  • And I kept putting it off.
  • 00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:53.000
  • And I knew it would be difficult because I was happy;
  • 00:22:53.010 --> 00:22:56.050
  • I was living the happily ever after.
  • 00:22:56.060 --> 00:22:57.190
  • Who wants to go back and think about that stuff?
  • 00:22:57.200 --> 00:22:59.190
  • And in order to write well, you need to relive it in your mind.
  • 00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:04.150
  • But, um, Andre, my husband, he gave me permission to do it.
  • 00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:08.250
  • He set me--it was very gracious of him as a man--
  • 00:23:08.260 --> 00:23:12.110
  • he gave me permission to go back and to relive that pain
  • 00:23:12.120 --> 00:23:15.250
  • and to write about "John" and to, um, to share my story.
  • 00:23:15.260 --> 00:23:20.200
  • And it took me about three years from start to finish,
  • 00:23:20.210 --> 00:23:25.030
  • um, because it was hard.
  • 00:23:25.040 --> 00:23:26.280
  • I would write a bit, and then I'd take a long break.
  • 00:23:26.290 --> 00:23:30.110
  • But it was published in 2015,
  • 00:23:30.120 --> 00:23:33.020
  • and the responses from readers has been...
  • 00:23:33.030 --> 00:23:36.170
  • [Voice quavers] It hurts me so much to hear
  • 00:23:36.180 --> 00:23:38.220
  • what they have to say.
  • 00:23:38.230 --> 00:23:39.240
  • They say to me, "You're telling my story."
  • 00:23:39.250 --> 00:23:43.010
  • -John: Give some advice to that, that woman especially--
  • 00:23:43.020 --> 00:23:46.280
  • doesn't have to be a woman--
  • 00:23:46.290 --> 00:23:47.270
  • -Juliet: Mm-hm.
  • 00:23:47.280 --> 00:23:49.010
  • -John: ...who's in a relationship that's just
  • 00:23:49.020 --> 00:23:50.240
  • spiraling downwards.
  • 00:23:50.250 --> 00:23:52.040
  • Nothing he or she can do about it.
  • 00:23:52.050 --> 00:23:54.030
  • There's addictions, or whatever the case is.
  • 00:23:54.040 --> 00:23:57.160
  • Where should they go?
  • 00:23:57.170 --> 00:23:58.160
  • -Juliet: No, and, and Dr. Larry Crabb says,
  • 00:23:58.170 --> 00:24:00.260
  • "Healing takes place in community."
  • 00:24:00.270 --> 00:24:02.230
  • So we need to find a community of people where we feel safe,
  • 00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:07.010
  • and who--where we're not alone in our suffering;
  • 00:24:07.020 --> 00:24:09.020
  • our suffering is, sorrow is divided.
  • 00:24:09.030 --> 00:24:11.180
  • Um, and I would, I would suggest finding a local, um,
  • 00:24:11.190 --> 00:24:15.120
  • Christ-centered recovery, um, group, recovery community.
  • 00:24:15.130 --> 00:24:19.120
  • Al-Anon is a wonderful resource.
  • 00:24:19.130 --> 00:24:22.000
  • Um, find a group that meets regularly for codependents.
  • 00:24:22.010 --> 00:24:25.220
  • There's Codependents Anonymous where, uh, those--
  • 00:24:25.230 --> 00:24:28.190
  • that's those of us who, who get caught in the cycle
  • 00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:31.110
  • of rescuing that loved one.
  • 00:24:31.120 --> 00:24:32.280
  • Um, not everyone can afford counseling,
  • 00:24:32.290 --> 00:24:35.230
  • professional counseling.
  • 00:24:35.240 --> 00:24:36.260
  • It's a wonderful resource, if you can.
  • 00:24:36.270 --> 00:24:39.060
  • But if you can't, there are people, um, who meet regularly
  • 00:24:39.070 --> 00:24:43.070
  • and talk and share and, um.
  • 00:24:43.080 --> 00:24:45.280
  • And be a reader. Um, learn about addiction.
  • 00:24:45.290 --> 00:24:49.010
  • Learn about boundaries. Learn about codependency.
  • 00:24:49.020 --> 00:24:52.030
  • Find out, um, about yourself and what you can do,
  • 00:24:52.040 --> 00:24:57.120
  • and then find a safe place where you can share and grow and heal.
  • 00:24:57.130 --> 00:25:02.220
  • There is hope.
  • 00:25:02.230 --> 00:25:04.030
  • [Music]
  • 00:25:04.040 --> 00:25:12.000
  • -Announcer: Modern life makes forming relationships hard.
  • 00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:15.230
  • We crave a solid family life,
  • 00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:17.030
  • but oftentimes don't know how to create it.
  • 00:25:17.040 --> 00:25:19.240
  • This book can help.
  • 00:25:19.250 --> 00:25:21.080
  • "Hope for Today's Families"
  • 00:25:21.090 --> 00:25:22.170
  • walks you through building relationships,
  • 00:25:22.180 --> 00:25:24.070
  • communicating effectively, and forming bonds for eternity.
  • 00:25:24.080 --> 00:25:27.160
  • Get "Hope for Today's Families."
  • 00:25:27.170 --> 00:25:29.070
  • It's free.
  • 00:25:29.080 --> 00:25:30.090
  • Call 800-253-3000
  • 00:25:30.100 --> 00:25:33.220
  • or visit us online today at iiwoffer.com.
  • 00:25:33.230 --> 00:25:37.260
  • Hope is just a call away: 800-253-3000.
  • 00:25:37.270 --> 00:25:42.130
  • -John Bradshaw: Juliet, let's pray together.
  • 00:25:43.130 --> 00:25:44.270
  • Let's pray.
  • 00:25:44.280 --> 00:25:46.120
  • Our Father in heaven,
  • 00:25:46.130 --> 00:25:47.120
  • we are grateful that You are the God who gives.
  • 00:25:47.130 --> 00:25:49.290
  • You don't take away.
  • 00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:51.030
  • You give.
  • 00:25:51.040 --> 00:25:51.230
  • You restore. You remake.
  • 00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:54.060
  • Thank You that You are never done with us,
  • 00:25:54.070 --> 00:25:56.240
  • that You always love us.
  • 00:25:56.250 --> 00:25:58.120
  • You don't turn from us, even when we turn from You.
  • 00:25:58.130 --> 00:26:02.060
  • Our Father, I want to pray right now for that woman,
  • 00:26:02.070 --> 00:26:05.280
  • that man, that young person,
  • 00:26:05.290 --> 00:26:08.130
  • who is struggling as life crashes down around them,
  • 00:26:08.140 --> 00:26:12.170
  • and allow that the challenges of this life would only turn us
  • 00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:16.150
  • in Your direction,
  • 00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:17.220
  • to embrace You, and never to turn us away from You.
  • 00:26:17.230 --> 00:26:22.220
  • Lord, we thank You, and we love You,
  • 00:26:22.230 --> 00:26:25.240
  • and we pray in Jesus' name, amen.
  • 00:26:25.250 --> 00:26:29.290
  • Thanks so much for joining me.
  • 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:31.100
  • I'm looking forward to seeing you again next time.
  • 00:26:31.110 --> 00:26:33.240
  • Until then, remember:
  • 00:26:33.250 --> 00:26:35.230
  • "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone,
  • 00:26:35.240 --> 00:26:40.020
  • but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'"
  • 00:26:40.030 --> 00:26:44.280
  • [Theme music]
  • 00:26:44.290 --> 00:26:55.000
  • [Theme music]
  • 00:26:55.000 --> 00:27:05.020