Jay Seegert | Science Has Facts & Christians Have Facts | TBN

Jay Seegert | Science Has Facts & Christians Have Facts

Watch Jay Seegert | Science Has Facts & Christians Have Facts
June 22, 2019
27:36

Creation in the 21st Century with David Rives

Closed captions

Jay Seegert | Science Has Facts & Christians Have Facts

Show timecode
Hide timecode
  • - DAVID RIVES: COMING UP ON
  • 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.240
  • "CREATION IN THE 21ST CENTURY":
  • 00:00:01.240 --> 00:00:03.240
  • - JAY SEEGERT: IT'S NOT ABOUT
  • 00:00:03.240 --> 00:00:04.160
  • WHETHER OR NOT YOU HAVE FAITH.
  • 00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:05.090
  • EVERYONE HAS FAITH IN
  • 00:00:05.090 --> 00:00:05.280
  • SOMETHING.
  • 00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:07.120
  • THE QUESTION IS: IS YOUR FAITH,
  • 00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:09.080
  • YOUR REASONABLE FAITH, BACKED
  • 00:00:09.080 --> 00:00:11.100
  • UP BY HISTORY, ARCHAEOLOGY,
  • 00:00:11.100 --> 00:00:12.100
  • SCIENCE PROPHECY, THINGS LIKE
  • 00:00:12.100 --> 00:00:13.100
  • THAT (WHICH THE CHRISTIAN
  • 00:00:13.100 --> 00:00:15.000
  • WORLDVIEW HAS TONS OF
  • 00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:16.080
  • EVIDENCE)?
  • 00:00:16.080 --> 00:00:17.250
  • - DAVID: WE ALL ASSUME THAT
  • 00:00:17.250 --> 00:00:18.240
  • WHEN IT COMES TO SCIENCE AND
  • 00:00:18.240 --> 00:00:19.180
  • ORIGINS, IT'S FACTS VERSUS
  • 00:00:19.180 --> 00:00:20.140
  • FAITH.
  • 00:00:20.140 --> 00:00:22.020
  • BUT IT'S ACTUALLY FAITH VERSUS
  • 00:00:22.020 --> 00:00:23.030
  • FAITH.
  • 00:00:23.030 --> 00:00:25.130
  • WHAT ABOUT OUR STARTING POINT?
  • 00:00:25.130 --> 00:00:27.090
  • HOW DO WE MEASURE FACTS VERSUS
  • 00:00:27.090 --> 00:00:28.010
  • FAITH?
  • 00:00:28.010 --> 00:00:30.080
  • - JAY SEEGERT: THE QUESTION
  • 00:00:30.080 --> 00:00:30.280
  • COMES UP: IS IT POSSIBLE TO
  • 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:32.020
  • KNOW ANYTHING FOR SURE?
  • 00:00:32.020 --> 00:00:34.150
  • [DRAMATIC THEME MUSIC PLAYS]
  • 00:00:44.240 --> 00:00:47.240
  • [MUSIC]
  • 00:00:51.230 --> 00:00:54.230
  • [MUSIC]
  • 00:00:59.040 --> 00:01:02.060
  • - DAVID: WELCOME TO "CREATION
  • 00:01:19.250 --> 00:01:20.270
  • IN THE 21ST CENTURY," WHERE
  • 00:01:20.270 --> 00:01:22.200
  • SCIENTIFIC DISCOVERY CONNECTS
  • 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:24.210
  • NOW, I'M DAVID RIVES, AND, I
  • 00:01:28.050 --> 00:01:28.250
  • WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT YOU ARE
  • 00:01:28.250 --> 00:01:29.250
  • JUST LIKE THE DESIGN THAT WE
  • 00:01:31.290 --> 00:01:32.190
  • SEE IN A CITY OR AN AUTOMOBILE
  • 00:01:32.190 --> 00:01:34.120
  • ALLOWS US TO APPRECIATE AND
  • 00:01:34.120 --> 00:01:35.070
  • STUDY THE ENGINEER OR DESIGNER
  • 00:01:35.070 --> 00:01:37.270
  • OF THOSE THINGS, WELL, THE
  • 00:01:37.270 --> 00:01:39.250
  • DESIGN THAT WE SEE IN THE
  • 00:01:39.250 --> 00:01:41.000
  • NATURAL WORLD ALL AROUND US,
  • 00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:42.040
  • FROM THE TINY HUMMINGBIRD TO
  • 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:43.170
  • HUMAN LIFE, IS POINTING US TO
  • 00:01:43.170 --> 00:01:45.150
  • THE DESIGNER OF THE UNIVERSE,
  • 00:01:45.150 --> 00:01:48.120
  • NOT TO NATURALISM AND CHANCE.
  • 00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:49.170
  • EACH WEEK, WE EXPLORE
  • 00:01:49.170 --> 00:01:51.290
  • SCIENTIFIC AND HISTORICAL
  • 00:01:51.290 --> 00:01:53.150
  • EVIDENCES OF BIBLICAL TRUTH,
  • 00:01:53.150 --> 00:01:54.250
  • AND, TODAY, WE WANNA TALK ABOUT
  • 00:01:54.250 --> 00:01:57.140
  • A HEAVENS DECLARE SEGMENT THAT
  • 00:01:57.140 --> 00:01:58.120
  • DISCUSSES THE POPULATION OF
  • 00:01:58.120 --> 00:02:00.140
  • EARTH.
  • 00:02:00.160 --> 00:02:03.160
  • YOU SEE, IF EARTH HAS ONLY BEEN
  • 00:02:03.160 --> 00:02:04.160
  • AROUND FOR 6.000 YEARS, AS THE
  • 00:02:04.160 --> 00:02:05.250
  • BIBLE SAYS, WELL, THEN, WHY
  • 00:02:05.250 --> 00:02:07.250
  • DON'T WE SEE TRILLIONS UPON
  • 00:02:08.260 --> 00:02:11.260
  • TRILLIONS OF PEOPLE HERE ON THE
  • 00:02:11.260 --> 00:02:13.060
  • PLANET TODAY?
  • 00:02:13.070 --> 00:02:16.070
  • WHY DO WE HAVE THE POPULATION
  • 00:02:16.070 --> 00:02:17.200
  • THAT WE HAVE TODAY?
  • 00:02:17.200 --> 00:02:19.000
  • AND, DOES IT MAKE SENSE FROM A
  • 00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:21.120
  • SCIENTIFIC PERSPECTIVE?
  • 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:23.270
  • [MUSIC]
  • 00:02:26.220 --> 00:02:28.040
  • OVER ONE MILLION YEARS AGO,
  • 00:02:28.040 --> 00:02:29.040
  • MODERN HUMANS ARRIVED ON THE
  • 00:02:29.040 --> 00:02:31.280
  • PLANET -- OR SO THE
  • 00:02:31.280 --> 00:02:32.150
  • EVOLUTIONARY STORY GOES.
  • 00:02:32.150 --> 00:02:35.080
  • YOU KNOW, THERE'S A PROBLEM
  • 00:02:35.080 --> 00:02:35.280
  • WITH THAT.
  • 00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:36.130
  • THERE AREN'T ENOUGH PEOPLE ON
  • 00:02:36.130 --> 00:02:37.090
  • EARTH.
  • 00:02:37.090 --> 00:02:39.000
  • NOW, IF WE STAND IN THE MIDDLE
  • 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:40.020
  • OF DOWNTOWN DALLAS, IT'S
  • 00:02:40.020 --> 00:02:41.050
  • DEFINITELY A BUSTLING PLACE,
  • 00:02:41.050 --> 00:02:42.140
  • BUT, WHERE ARE ALL OF THE
  • 00:02:42.140 --> 00:02:44.140
  • PEOPLE IF HUMANS HAVE BEEN
  • 00:02:44.140 --> 00:02:46.160
  • AROUND FOR OVER A MILLION
  • 00:02:46.160 --> 00:02:47.050
  • YEARS?
  • 00:02:47.050 --> 00:02:50.000
  • NOW, IF WE ASSUME A REALLY,
  • 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:51.180
  • REALLY SLOW GROWTH RATE OF JUST
  • 00:02:51.180 --> 00:02:52.150
  • .01 PERCENT, A POPULATION THAT
  • 00:02:52.150 --> 00:02:55.080
  • DOUBLES EVERY 7.000 YEARS, AS
  • 00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:57.260
  • OPPOSED TO EVERY 39 YEARS, LIKE
  • 00:02:57.260 --> 00:03:00.120
  • IT DOES TODAY, WELL, IN JUST
  • 00:03:00.180 --> 00:03:03.180
  • ONE MILLION YEARS, THE NUMBER
  • 00:03:03.180 --> 00:03:04.100
  • OF PEOPLE ON EARTH COULD BE 10
  • 00:03:04.100 --> 00:03:05.010
  • TO THE 43RD POWER.
  • 00:03:05.010 --> 00:03:07.140
  • THAT'S AN UNIMAGINABLY LARGE
  • 00:03:07.140 --> 00:03:09.200
  • NUMBER THAT EARTH COULD NOT
  • 00:03:09.200 --> 00:03:11.060
  • EVEN BEGIN TO SUSTAIN!
  • 00:03:11.060 --> 00:03:13.110
  • NOW, SOME EVOLUTIONISTS WILL
  • 00:03:13.180 --> 00:03:16.180
  • SAY THAT WARS, FAMINE, DISEASE,
  • 00:03:16.180 --> 00:03:17.240
  • AND HIGH INFANT-MORTALITY RATES
  • 00:03:17.240 --> 00:03:18.160
  • HAVE KEPT THE POPULATION ON THE
  • 00:03:18.160 --> 00:03:19.150
  • VERGES OF EXTINCTION UNTIL
  • 00:03:19.150 --> 00:03:20.100
  • RELATIVELY MODERN TIMES.
  • 00:03:24.100 --> 00:03:27.100
  • BUT IF THIS RATHER INCREDIBLE
  • 00:03:27.100 --> 00:03:28.010
  • STORY IS TRUE, WELL, THEN,
  • 00:03:28.010 --> 00:03:29.010
  • WHERE ARE ALL THE HUMAN
  • 00:03:29.010 --> 00:03:29.220
  • REMAINS?
  • 00:03:29.220 --> 00:03:31.040
  • WE SUPPOSEDLY HAVE A HANDFUL OF
  • 00:03:31.040 --> 00:03:31.280
  • HUMAN REMAINS THAT HAVE
  • 00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:33.060
  • SURVIVED THE RAVISHES OF
  • 00:03:33.060 --> 00:03:33.290
  • HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF YEARS,
  • 00:03:33.290 --> 00:03:34.200
  • BUT WHY AREN'T THERE MORE?
  • 00:03:34.260 --> 00:03:37.260
  • IF EVOLUTION IS TRUE, THERE
  • 00:03:37.260 --> 00:03:38.190
  • SHOULD BE MANY MORE HUMAN
  • 00:03:38.190 --> 00:03:39.100
  • REMAINS TO ACCOUNT FOR THE
  • 00:03:39.100 --> 00:03:40.040
  • BILLIONS OF INDIVIDUALS WHO
  • 00:03:40.040 --> 00:03:40.240
  • HAVE DIED.
  • 00:03:42.220 --> 00:03:45.220
  • AND EVEN IF WE DON'T FIND HUMAN
  • 00:03:45.220 --> 00:03:46.140
  • REMAINS, WE SHOULD FIND
  • 00:03:46.140 --> 00:03:47.020
  • ARTIFACTS THEY LEFT BEHIND OR
  • 00:03:47.020 --> 00:03:47.230
  • THEY WERE BURIED WITH.
  • 00:03:47.230 --> 00:03:50.180
  • YET, WE SIMPLY DON'T FIND
  • 00:03:50.180 --> 00:03:52.140
  • EVIDENCE THAT BILLIONS AND
  • 00:03:52.140 --> 00:03:53.230
  • BILLIONS OF PEOPLE HAVE LIVED
  • 00:03:53.230 --> 00:03:54.140
  • AND DIED OVER THE SUPPOSED LAST
  • 00:03:54.140 --> 00:03:55.060
  • MILLIONS YEARS.
  • 00:03:55.060 --> 00:03:57.070
  • NOW, WHAT HAPPENS IF WE START
  • 00:03:57.070 --> 00:03:58.040
  • WITH GOD'S WORD?
  • 00:03:58.040 --> 00:03:58.200
  • WELL, THE HUMAN POPULATION
  • 00:03:58.200 --> 00:03:59.280
  • STARTED WITH TWO INDIVIDUALS
  • 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:03.120
  • JUST 6.000 YEARS AGO.
  • 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:03.290
  • NOW, AROUND 4.000 YEARS AGO,
  • 00:04:03.290 --> 00:04:05.210
  • THE POPULATION WAS REDUCED TO
  • 00:04:05.210 --> 00:04:06.120
  • JUST EIGHT AT THE TIME OF THE
  • 00:04:06.170 --> 00:04:09.170
  • WORLDWIDE FLOOD.
  • 00:04:09.170 --> 00:04:12.120
  • NOW, IF WE START WITH THOSE
  • 00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:13.230
  • EIGHT PEOPLE AND ASSUME A
  • 00:04:13.230 --> 00:04:14.210
  • CONSERVATIVE GROWTH RATE OF
  • 00:04:14.210 --> 00:04:15.110
  • JUST HALF A PERCENT, WELL, WE
  • 00:04:15.110 --> 00:04:18.030
  • CAN EASILY GET TO OUR MODERN
  • 00:04:18.030 --> 00:04:18.230
  • PEOPLE TO DATE, EVEN TAKING
  • 00:04:18.230 --> 00:04:19.130
  • INTO ACCOUNT WARS, FAMINE,
  • 00:04:19.130 --> 00:04:21.010
  • DISEASE, AND HIGH INFANT
  • 00:04:21.010 --> 00:04:21.230
  • MORTALITY.
  • 00:04:21.230 --> 00:04:24.090
  • THE EVIDENCE CONFIRMS THE
  • 00:04:24.090 --> 00:04:25.250
  • BIBLE, NOT EVOLUTIONARY IDEAS
  • 00:04:25.250 --> 00:04:27.290
  • ABOUT THE PAST.
  • 00:04:27.290 --> 00:04:30.240
  • THE DATA MAKES A CLEAR CASE
  • 00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:31.140
  • THAT ALMOST COMPLETELY
  • 00:04:31.140 --> 00:04:32.190
  • PRECLUDES THE NOTION OF ANY
  • 00:04:32.190 --> 00:04:33.280
  • MORE THAN A FEW THOUSAND YEARS
  • 00:04:33.280 --> 00:04:34.290
  • OF HUMAN EXISTENCE.
  • 00:04:34.290 --> 00:04:35.270
  • YOU KNOW, THAT'S JUST ONE MORE
  • 00:04:35.280 --> 00:04:38.280
  • SCIENTIFIC REASON THAT YOU
  • 00:04:38.280 --> 00:04:40.060
  • SHOULDN'T BELIEVE IN LONG AGES
  • 00:04:40.060 --> 00:04:40.270
  • OF EVOLUTION.
  • 00:04:40.270 --> 00:04:42.180
  • IT TAKES A LOT OF FAITH.
  • 00:04:42.180 --> 00:04:44.150
  • I'M DAVID RIVES.
  • 00:04:44.150 --> 00:04:45.150
  • TRULY, THE HEAVENS DECLARE THE
  • 00:04:45.150 --> 00:04:46.170
  • GLORY OF GOD.
  • 00:04:46.170 --> 00:04:49.020
  • [MUSIC]
  • 00:04:51.030 --> 00:04:54.030
  • JAY SEEGERT HAS HIS BACHELOR'S
  • 00:04:56.200 --> 00:04:57.110
  • IN PHYSICS FROM THE UNIVERSITY
  • 00:04:57.110 --> 00:04:58.020
  • OF WISCONSIN-WHITEWATER
  • 00:04:58.020 --> 00:04:58.200
  • AND HE'S THE DIRECTOR OF
  • 00:04:58.200 --> 00:04:59.140
  • THE STARTING POINT PROJECT.
  • 00:04:59.140 --> 00:05:01.160
  • HE'S BEEN SPEAKING ON
  • 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:03.110
  • APOLOGETICS FOR OVER 30 YEARS,
  • 00:05:03.110 --> 00:05:04.070
  • JAY HAS A GREAT PASSION FOR
  • 00:05:07.130 --> 00:05:08.090
  • HELPING CHRISTIANS STRENGTHEN
  • 00:05:08.090 --> 00:05:09.000
  • THEIR FAITH.
  • 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:10.070
  • I'M EXCITED TO HAVE HIM WITH US
  • 00:05:10.070 --> 00:05:11.080
  • ON THE PROGRAM TODAY.
  • 00:05:11.080 --> 00:05:12.070
  • WELCOME.
  • 00:05:12.070 --> 00:05:14.080
  • - JAY SEEGERT: IT'S GREAT TO
  • 00:05:14.080 --> 00:05:14.290
  • BE ON THE SHOW TODAY.
  • 00:05:14.290 --> 00:05:15.160
  • APPRECIATE IT.
  • 00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:16.020
  • - DAVID: ABSOLUTELY.
  • 00:05:16.020 --> 00:05:18.260
  • IT'S A PRIVILEGE TO HAVE YOU
  • 00:05:18.260 --> 00:05:19.170
  • HERE TO DISCUSS SOME OF THESE
  • 00:05:19.170 --> 00:05:20.080
  • THINGS -- AND ESPECIALLY TO
  • 00:05:20.080 --> 00:05:21.020
  • DISCUSS THIS WHOLE --
  • 00:05:21.020 --> 00:05:23.160
  • WE KIND OF LED UP TO IT
  • 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:24.100
  • IN THE PRE-ROLL HERE --
  • 00:05:24.100 --> 00:05:26.160
  • FAITH VERSUS FACT, RIGHT?
  • 00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:28.060
  • BECAUSE, THERE ARE MANY, MANY
  • 00:05:28.060 --> 00:05:30.260
  • FACTS OUT THERE, BUT, YOU HAVE
  • 00:05:30.260 --> 00:05:32.190
  • TO HAVE FAITH TO BELIEVE IN
  • 00:05:32.190 --> 00:05:34.060
  • THINGS THAT WE CAN'T SEE, THAT
  • 00:05:34.130 --> 00:05:37.130
  • WE CAN'T OBSERVE.
  • 00:05:37.130 --> 00:05:39.140
  • AND, I WANT YOU TO KIND OF
  • 00:05:39.140 --> 00:05:41.000
  • BREAK THAT DOWN FOR US.
  • 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:41.190
  • WHAT ABOUT FACT VERSUS FAITH?
  • 00:05:41.190 --> 00:05:42.250
  • - JAY: SURE.
  • 00:05:42.250 --> 00:05:44.120
  • WELL, WE'RE LIVING IN A SOCIETY
  • 00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:45.140
  • THAT CERTAINLY PITS FACTS
  • 00:05:45.140 --> 00:05:46.290
  • VERSUS FAITH.
  • 00:05:46.290 --> 00:05:49.030
  • THE SKEPTICS ARE ALL ABOUT
  • 00:05:49.030 --> 00:05:50.180
  • FACTS AND PROVING THINGS,
  • 00:05:50.180 --> 00:05:51.070
  • WHEREAS CHRISTIANS -- WE
  • 00:05:51.070 --> 00:05:51.250
  • SUPPOSEDLY JUST HAVE FAITH
  • 00:05:51.250 --> 00:05:52.260
  • WHICH IS NOTHING MORE THAN
  • 00:05:52.260 --> 00:05:53.170
  • WISHFUL THINKING AND FAIRY
  • 00:05:53.170 --> 00:05:54.100
  • TALES AND PUPPY DOGS, AND
  • 00:05:54.100 --> 00:05:56.030
  • RAINBOWS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
  • 00:05:56.030 --> 00:05:57.080
  • EVEN TOO MANY CHRISTIANS WILL
  • 00:05:57.080 --> 00:05:58.270
  • KIND OF FEEL THAT WAY.
  • 00:05:58.270 --> 00:05:59.220
  • THEY'LL SAY, "WELL,
  • 00:05:59.220 --> 00:06:01.050
  • CHRISTIANITY IS A FAITH AND YOU
  • 00:06:01.050 --> 00:06:02.030
  • JUST HAVE TO BELIEVE IT," SO IT
  • 00:06:02.030 --> 00:06:03.170
  • MAKES 'EM KIND OF TIMID, AS FAR
  • 00:06:03.170 --> 00:06:04.210
  • AS SHARING THEIR FAITH.
  • 00:06:04.210 --> 00:06:05.280
  • BUT, WHEN REALITY SETS IN, WE
  • 00:06:05.280 --> 00:06:08.050
  • FIND OUT IT'S NOT FACTS VERSUS
  • 00:06:08.050 --> 00:06:09.150
  • FAITH; IT'S REALLY FAITH VERSUS
  • 00:06:09.150 --> 00:06:11.010
  • FAITH.
  • 00:06:11.010 --> 00:06:11.180
  • - DAVID: FAITH VERSUS FAITH.
  • 00:06:11.180 --> 00:06:13.010
  • SO, BASICALLY, MANY SCIENTISTS
  • 00:06:13.010 --> 00:06:14.280
  • AND MANY SKEPTICS AROUND THE
  • 00:06:14.280 --> 00:06:17.020
  • WORLD HAVE INSISTED THAT
  • 00:06:17.020 --> 00:06:18.190
  • CHRISTIANITY, OR A BELIEF IN
  • 00:06:18.190 --> 00:06:20.240
  • THE BIBLE, IS FAITH.
  • 00:06:20.240 --> 00:06:21.280
  • AND, THE ATHEISTIC SCIENCE
  • 00:06:22.140 --> 00:06:25.140
  • IS...FACT.
  • 00:06:25.190 --> 00:06:28.190
  • RIGHT?
  • 00:06:28.190 --> 00:06:30.050
  • BUT WHAT DO SKEPTICS SAY ABOUT
  • 00:06:30.050 --> 00:06:31.030
  • BELIEF IN FAITH, WHICH IS
  • 00:06:31.030 --> 00:06:33.180
  • ULTIMATELY THEIR POSITION?
  • 00:06:33.180 --> 00:06:34.080
  • - JAY: SURE.
  • 00:06:34.080 --> 00:06:35.130
  • THEY ARE NOT IMPRESSED WITH THE
  • 00:06:35.130 --> 00:06:36.050
  • IDEA OF FAITH.
  • 00:06:36.050 --> 00:06:36.280
  • I HEAR QUOTES ABOUT FAITH.
  • 00:06:36.280 --> 00:06:38.190
  • THEY SAY: FAITH IS NOT A
  • 00:06:38.190 --> 00:06:40.130
  • VIRTUE.
  • 00:06:40.130 --> 00:06:40.280
  • FAITH IS GULLIBILITY.
  • 00:06:40.280 --> 00:06:41.170
  • FAITH IS DISHONESTY.
  • 00:06:41.170 --> 00:06:43.010
  • FAITH IS BLINDNESS.
  • 00:06:43.010 --> 00:06:44.210
  • FAITH IS ABSENCE OF REASON.
  • 00:06:44.210 --> 00:06:46.070
  • FAITH SHOULD NOT BE RESPECTED;
  • 00:06:46.070 --> 00:06:47.090
  • IT SHOULD BE DETESTED.
  • 00:06:47.220 --> 00:06:50.220
  • - DAVID: WOW.
  • 00:06:50.220 --> 00:06:51.080
  • - JAY: AND THEN, WE HAVE
  • 00:06:51.080 --> 00:06:52.110
  • SAM HARRIS, ONE OF THE
  • 00:06:52.110 --> 00:06:53.010
  • LEADING ATHEISTS AROUND.
  • 00:06:53.010 --> 00:06:53.210
  • HE SAID, "IT'S TIME WE ADMITTED
  • 00:06:53.210 --> 00:06:55.010
  • THAT FAITH IS NOTHING MORE THAN
  • 00:06:55.010 --> 00:06:56.030
  • THE LICENSE RELIGIOUS PEOPLE
  • 00:06:56.030 --> 00:06:57.110
  • GIVE TO ONE ANOTHER TO KEEP
  • 00:06:57.110 --> 00:07:00.040
  • BELIEVING WHEN REASON FAILS."
  • 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:01.130
  • AND WE HAVE
  • 00:07:01.130 --> 00:07:01.280
  • CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS.
  • 00:07:01.280 --> 00:07:03.170
  • HE WAS A LEADING ATHEIST, DIED
  • 00:07:03.170 --> 00:07:04.100
  • A FEW YEARS AGO.
  • 00:07:04.100 --> 00:07:04.260
  • HE SAID, "IT'S CALLED FAITH
  • 00:07:04.260 --> 00:07:05.250
  • BECAUSE IT'S NOT KNOWLEDGE."
  • 00:07:05.250 --> 00:07:08.000
  • - DAVID: HMH!
  • 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:08.190
  • - JAY: AND THEN, WE HAVE
  • 00:07:08.190 --> 00:07:09.110
  • RICHARD DAWKINS, ARGUABLY THE
  • 00:07:09.110 --> 00:07:10.150
  • WORLD'S LEADING ATHEIST.
  • 00:07:10.150 --> 00:07:11.280
  • HE SAID, "FAITH IS A GREAT COP
  • 00:07:11.280 --> 00:07:13.260
  • OUT, THE GREAT EXCUSE TO EVADE
  • 00:07:13.260 --> 00:07:15.140
  • THE NEED TO THINK AND EVALUATE
  • 00:07:15.140 --> 00:07:17.000
  • EVIDENCE.
  • 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:17.180
  • FAITH IS BELIEF IN SPITE OF,
  • 00:07:18.210 --> 00:07:21.210
  • EVEN PERHAPS BECAUSE OF, THE
  • 00:07:21.210 --> 00:07:22.110
  • LACK OF EVIDENCE."
  • 00:07:22.110 --> 00:07:22.260
  • - DAVID: WOW.
  • 00:07:22.260 --> 00:07:23.240
  • - JAY: AND, FINALLY, WE HAVE
  • 00:07:23.240 --> 00:07:24.150
  • MARK TWAIN WHO SAID, "FAITH IS
  • 00:07:24.150 --> 00:07:25.090
  • BELIEVING WHAT YOU KNOW AIN'T
  • 00:07:25.090 --> 00:07:26.180
  • SO."
  • 00:07:26.180 --> 00:07:28.150
  • [DAVID LAUGHS]
  • 00:07:28.150 --> 00:07:29.000
  • WE KNOW IT'S NOT TRUE, BUT
  • 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:29.190
  • WE'RE GONNA BELIEVE IT, ANYWAY.
  • 00:07:29.190 --> 00:07:30.180
  • THAT'S WHAT FAITH IS ALL ABOUT.
  • 00:07:30.180 --> 00:07:31.100
  • THAT'S THE IMPRESSION THAT
  • 00:07:31.100 --> 00:07:32.000
  • PEOPLE HAVE.
  • 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:32.290
  • - DAVID: OKAY.
  • 00:07:32.290 --> 00:07:33.190
  • AND, THAT'S...ULTIMATELY, THE
  • 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:38.000
  • IMPRESSION THAT EVEN THOSE IN
  • 00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:39.040
  • THE CHURCH HAVE.
  • 00:07:39.040 --> 00:07:39.290
  • - JAY: IT CREEPS IN THERE
  • 00:07:39.290 --> 00:07:42.170
  • ALL TOO OFTEN.
  • 00:07:42.170 --> 00:07:43.030
  • THERE ARE A COUPLE SIGNS I SAW
  • 00:07:43.030 --> 00:07:43.260
  • OUTSIDE SOME CHURCHES.
  • 00:07:43.260 --> 00:07:44.260
  • ONE SAID, "REASON IS THE
  • 00:07:44.260 --> 00:07:45.230
  • GREATEST ENEMY THAT FAITH HAS."
  • 00:07:45.290 --> 00:07:48.290
  • - DAVID: OH, NO.
  • 00:07:48.290 --> 00:07:49.170
  • - JAY: ANOTHER ONE SAID, "IF
  • 00:07:49.170 --> 00:07:50.190
  • YOUR FAITH IS BIG ENOUGH,
  • 00:07:50.190 --> 00:07:51.080
  • FACTS DON'T COUNT."
  • 00:07:51.080 --> 00:07:53.070
  • I THINK THAT'S A TERRIBLE
  • 00:07:53.070 --> 00:07:54.030
  • MESSAGE TO BE PORTRAYING TO
  • 00:07:54.030 --> 00:07:55.020
  • PEOPLE DRIVING BY.
  • 00:07:55.020 --> 00:07:56.000
  • I MEAN, ISAIAH SAYS, "COME NOW,
  • 00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:57.190
  • AND LET US REASON TOGETHER,
  • 00:07:57.190 --> 00:07:58.180
  • SAYS THE LORD."
  • 00:07:58.180 --> 00:08:01.160
  • GOD WANTS US TO USE OUR BRAINS.
  • 00:08:01.160 --> 00:08:02.140
  • - DAVID: AND THE BIBLE TELLS
  • 00:08:02.140 --> 00:08:03.090
  • US TO PROVE ALL THINGS AND TO
  • 00:08:03.090 --> 00:08:04.280
  • HOLD FAST THAT WHICH IS GOOD.
  • 00:08:04.280 --> 00:08:06.080
  • I MEAN, SURE WE HAVE FAITH THAT
  • 00:08:06.080 --> 00:08:08.000
  • WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS IS-- IS
  • 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:09.260
  • TRUE, BUT IT'S NOT A BLIND
  • 00:08:09.260 --> 00:08:12.050
  • FAITH!
  • 00:08:12.050 --> 00:08:12.250
  • THE EVIDENCE IS LITERALLY ALL
  • 00:08:12.250 --> 00:08:14.030
  • AROUND US.
  • 00:08:14.030 --> 00:08:15.050
  • - JAY: IT'S AN EXTREMELY
  • 00:08:15.050 --> 00:08:16.170
  • REASONABLE FAITH.
  • 00:08:16.170 --> 00:08:17.020
  • IT'S NOT ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT
  • 00:08:17.020 --> 00:08:18.050
  • YOU HAVE FAITH.
  • 00:08:18.050 --> 00:08:19.010
  • EVERYONE HAS FAITH IN
  • 00:08:19.010 --> 00:08:19.210
  • SOMETHING.
  • 00:08:19.210 --> 00:08:21.000
  • THE QUESTION IS: IS YOUR FAITH
  • 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:22.220
  • A REASONABLE FAITH, BACKED UP
  • 00:08:22.220 --> 00:08:24.060
  • BY HISTORY, ARCHAEOLOGY,
  • 00:08:24.060 --> 00:08:26.010
  • SCIENCE, PROPHECY, THINGS LIKE
  • 00:08:26.010 --> 00:08:27.210
  • THAT (WHICH THE CHRISTIAN
  • 00:08:27.210 --> 00:08:28.100
  • WORLDVIEW HAS TONS OF
  • 00:08:28.100 --> 00:08:29.110
  • EVIDENCE)?
  • 00:08:29.110 --> 00:08:32.010
  • - DAVID: OKAY, SO, WHAT I
  • 00:08:32.010 --> 00:08:32.210
  • WANNA ASK IS: WHAT ABOUT OUR
  • 00:08:32.210 --> 00:08:33.120
  • STARTING POINT?
  • 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:35.110
  • HOW DO WE MEASURE FACTS VERSUS
  • 00:08:36.150 --> 00:08:39.150
  • FAITH?
  • 00:08:39.150 --> 00:08:40.230
  • - JAY: SURE.
  • 00:08:40.230 --> 00:08:41.110
  • WELL, EVERYONE STARTS SOMEWHERE
  • 00:08:41.110 --> 00:08:42.030
  • WITH THEIR BELIEF SYSTEMS.
  • 00:08:42.030 --> 00:08:42.220
  • IT'S IMPOSSIBLE NOT TO START
  • 00:08:42.220 --> 00:08:43.120
  • SOMEWHERE.
  • 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:44.210
  • THE CHRISTIAN STARTS WITH THE
  • 00:08:44.210 --> 00:08:45.140
  • BELIEF THAT GOD EXISTS AND THE
  • 00:08:45.140 --> 00:08:46.240
  • BIBLE'S HIS WORD.
  • 00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:48.090
  • AND THEN, WE BUILD OUR BELIEF
  • 00:08:48.090 --> 00:08:49.260
  • OF EVERYTHING ELSE UPON THAT,
  • 00:08:49.260 --> 00:08:51.150
  • OUR BELIEF OF WHAT SCIENCE AND
  • 00:08:51.150 --> 00:08:53.010
  • LOGIC REALLY ARE.
  • 00:08:53.010 --> 00:08:54.010
  • UH, ETHICS, MORALITY,
  • 00:08:54.010 --> 00:08:55.070
  • PHILOSOPHY -- ALL THOSE THINGS
  • 00:08:55.070 --> 00:08:56.240
  • ARE BUILT ON OUR STARTING
  • 00:08:56.240 --> 00:08:57.130
  • POINT.
  • 00:08:57.130 --> 00:08:58.250
  • BECAUSE, AGAIN, EVERYONE HAS TO
  • 00:08:58.250 --> 00:09:00.040
  • START SOMEWHERE.
  • 00:09:00.040 --> 00:09:01.270
  • - DAVID: ALL RIGHT.
  • 00:09:01.270 --> 00:09:02.210
  • YOU-- YOU GIVE THIS ANALOGY --
  • 00:09:02.210 --> 00:09:03.200
  • I LOVE THIS -- AND IT HAS TO DO
  • 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:05.140
  • WITH...A MEASURING STICK, OR A
  • 00:09:05.140 --> 00:09:07.190
  • RULER, OR A TAPE MEASURE.
  • 00:09:07.190 --> 00:09:09.080
  • GIVE THAT TO US, RIGHT NOW.
  • 00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:11.080
  • I WANT THE AUDIENCE TO HEAR
  • 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:11.280
  • THIS.
  • 00:09:11.280 --> 00:09:12.230
  • - JAY: SURE.
  • 00:09:12.230 --> 00:09:13.120
  • UM, WHEN YOU THINK OF GOD,
  • 00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:15.190
  • PROBABLY THE FIRST THING THAT
  • 00:09:15.190 --> 00:09:16.130
  • POPS INTO YOUR HEAD IS A COIL
  • 00:09:16.130 --> 00:09:17.120
  • OF ROPE, RIGHT?
  • 00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:18.240
  • [DAVID LAUGHS]
  • 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:19.090
  • MAYBE THAT'S JUST ME.
  • 00:09:19.090 --> 00:09:21.070
  • BUT HERE'S THE POINT: LET'S SAY
  • 00:09:21.070 --> 00:09:21.290
  • YOU WENT TO A HARDWARE STORE
  • 00:09:21.290 --> 00:09:22.190
  • AND YOU SAID, "I'D LIKE 1 METER
  • 00:09:22.190 --> 00:09:23.110
  • OF ROPE."
  • 00:09:23.110 --> 00:09:24.260
  • - DAVID: OKAY.
  • 00:09:24.260 --> 00:09:25.120
  • - JAY: GUY GOES OVER, CUTS OFF
  • 00:09:25.120 --> 00:09:26.070
  • A PIECE, HANDS IT TO YOU, AND
  • 00:09:26.070 --> 00:09:26.280
  • SAYS, "THERE YOU GO."
  • 00:09:26.280 --> 00:09:28.100
  • THEN, YOU MIGHT ASK,
  • 00:09:28.100 --> 00:09:28.260
  • "HOW DO I KNOW IT'S A METER?"
  • 00:09:29.190 --> 00:09:32.190
  • HE SAYS, "WELL, GOOD QUESTION.
  • 00:09:32.190 --> 00:09:33.100
  • I KNOW IT'S A METER BECAUSE I
  • 00:09:33.100 --> 00:09:34.010
  • USED A TAPE MEASURE."
  • 00:09:34.010 --> 00:09:35.110
  • - DAVID: OKAY.
  • 00:09:35.110 --> 00:09:36.110
  • - JAY: WELL, IT'S NOT JUST HIS
  • 00:09:36.110 --> 00:09:37.220
  • OPINION HE USED A TAPE MEASURE;
  • 00:09:37.220 --> 00:09:38.140
  • HE'S APPEALING TO A HIGHER
  • 00:09:38.140 --> 00:09:39.220
  • SOURCE OF AUTHORITY: THE TAPE
  • 00:09:39.220 --> 00:09:40.130
  • MEASURE.
  • 00:09:40.130 --> 00:09:41.210
  • THEN, YOU SAY, "OKAY, HOW DO I
  • 00:09:41.210 --> 00:09:43.020
  • KNOW THE TAPE MEASURE'S
  • 00:09:43.020 --> 00:09:44.140
  • ACCURATE?"
  • 00:09:44.140 --> 00:09:44.290
  • HE SAYS, "WELL, GOOD QUESTION.
  • 00:09:44.290 --> 00:09:46.030
  • I KNOW THE TAPE MEASURE'S
  • 00:09:46.030 --> 00:09:47.190
  • ACCURATE BECAUSE THEY'RE MAKING
  • 00:09:47.190 --> 00:09:48.270
  • IT IN THE MANUFACTURING PLANT,
  • 00:09:48.270 --> 00:09:50.070
  • WHERE THEY DO IT JUST RIGHT."
  • 00:09:50.070 --> 00:09:50.280
  • - DAVID: HMH.
  • 00:09:50.280 --> 00:09:51.240
  • - JAY: HE'S APPEALING TO AN
  • 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:52.170
  • EVEN HIGHER AUTHORITY -- NOT
  • 00:09:52.170 --> 00:09:53.190
  • JUST HIS OPINION OR THE TAPE
  • 00:09:53.190 --> 00:09:56.080
  • MEASURE, BUT THE MANUFACTURING
  • 00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:57.000
  • PLANT WHERE THEY MAKE THESE
  • 00:09:57.000 --> 00:09:57.200
  • THINGS.
  • 00:09:57.200 --> 00:09:58.000
  • - DAVID: OKAY.
  • 00:09:58.000 --> 00:09:58.140
  • - JAY: THEN, YOU ASK, "HOW DO
  • 00:09:58.140 --> 00:09:59.070
  • I KNOW THEY'RE DOING IT RIGHT
  • 00:09:59.070 --> 00:10:00.010
  • AT THE MANUFACTURING PLANT?"
  • 00:10:00.010 --> 00:10:00.220
  • HE SAYS, "WELL, I KNOW THEY'RE
  • 00:10:00.220 --> 00:10:02.050
  • DOING IT RIGHT THERE BECAUSE
  • 00:10:02.050 --> 00:10:03.260
  • THEY'RE USING THE STANDARDS
  • 00:10:03.260 --> 00:10:05.180
  • THAT WERE ESTABLISHED AT THE
  • 00:10:05.180 --> 00:10:06.200
  • GENERAL COUNCIL OF WEIGHTS AND
  • 00:10:06.200 --> 00:10:07.110
  • MEASURES IN 1983.
  • 00:10:07.110 --> 00:10:09.030
  • [DAVID LAUGHS]
  • 00:10:09.030 --> 00:10:09.200
  • THEY DETERMINED THE METER'S
  • 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:10.150
  • GONNA BE THE DISTANCE LIGHT
  • 00:10:10.150 --> 00:10:11.270
  • TRAVELS IN A VACUUM IN
  • 00:10:11.270 --> 00:10:12.170
  • ONE THREE-HUNDRED-MILLIONTH OF
  • 00:10:12.170 --> 00:10:13.120
  • A SECOND."
  • 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:14.110
  • [DAVID LAUGHS]
  • 00:10:14.110 --> 00:10:14.260
  • THAT'S ACTUALLY THE ULTIMATE
  • 00:10:14.260 --> 00:10:15.160
  • AUTHORITY FOR DETERMINING HOW
  • 00:10:15.160 --> 00:10:16.280
  • LONG A METER IS.
  • 00:10:16.280 --> 00:10:18.230
  • IT CAN'T GO ANY HIGHER THAN
  • 00:10:18.230 --> 00:10:19.230
  • THAT.
  • 00:10:19.230 --> 00:10:20.090
  • A METER'S THAT LENGTH BECAUSE
  • 00:10:20.090 --> 00:10:22.000
  • THEY SAID SO.
  • 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:22.220
  • - DAVID: OKAY.
  • 00:10:22.220 --> 00:10:23.180
  • - JAY: SO, WITH THAT -- I
  • 00:10:23.180 --> 00:10:25.050
  • MEAN, EVERYONE KIND OF FOLLOWS
  • 00:10:25.050 --> 00:10:26.020
  • THAT PROGRESSION.
  • 00:10:26.020 --> 00:10:26.200
  • - DAVID: RIGHT.
  • 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:27.070
  • - JAY: PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD.
  • 00:10:27.070 --> 00:10:28.000
  • BUT, WITH THAT IN MIND, THINK
  • 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:29.010
  • ABOUT THIS: IF THE BIBLE TRULY
  • 00:10:29.010 --> 00:10:31.030
  • IS THE INSPIRED WORD OF GOD,
  • 00:10:31.030 --> 00:10:33.010
  • THEN IT MUST BE THE ULTIMATE
  • 00:10:33.010 --> 00:10:35.180
  • AUTHORITY.
  • 00:10:35.180 --> 00:10:37.040
  • THERE'S NO WAY TO GO TO
  • 00:10:37.040 --> 00:10:38.030
  • SOMETHING HIGHER TO APPEAL TO
  • 00:10:38.030 --> 00:10:40.210
  • SEE IF THAT'S RIGHT.
  • 00:10:40.210 --> 00:10:41.090
  • IT'S NOT LIKE THERE'S A MEGA
  • 00:10:41.090 --> 00:10:42.160
  • GOD OUT THERE OVER OUR GOD.
  • 00:10:42.160 --> 00:10:43.270
  • WE APPEAL TO THE MEGA GOD, THE
  • 00:10:43.270 --> 00:10:45.010
  • MEGA GOD SAYS: YEAH, THE BIBLE
  • 00:10:45.010 --> 00:10:46.170
  • YOU'RE LOOKING AT -- THAT WAS
  • 00:10:46.170 --> 00:10:47.220
  • WRITTEN BY THE SUBSERVIENT GOD
  • 00:10:47.220 --> 00:10:48.190
  • THAT YOU GUYS WORSHIP.
  • 00:10:48.190 --> 00:10:50.200
  • DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.
  • 00:10:50.200 --> 00:10:51.120
  • WE'RE AT THE END OF THE LINE.
  • 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:52.170
  • SO, IF THE BIBLE IS THE
  • 00:10:52.170 --> 00:10:54.090
  • ULTIMATE AUTHORITY FOR US AS
  • 00:10:54.090 --> 00:10:56.130
  • CHRISTIANS, THERE'S NO WAY TO
  • 00:10:56.130 --> 00:10:58.030
  • PROVE IT BECAUSE YOU CAN'T GO
  • 00:10:58.030 --> 00:10:59.070
  • ANY HIGHER.
  • 00:10:59.070 --> 00:11:00.040
  • IT BECOMES OUR STARTING POINT.
  • 00:11:00.040 --> 00:11:02.110
  • IT'S WHERE WE START.
  • 00:11:02.110 --> 00:11:03.160
  • AND, THEN, WE USE THOSE BELIEFS
  • 00:11:03.160 --> 00:11:04.230
  • -- THAT GOD EXISTS AND THE
  • 00:11:04.230 --> 00:11:06.130
  • BIBLE'S HIS WORD -- TO DEVELOP
  • 00:11:06.130 --> 00:11:07.120
  • OUR BELIEF FOR EVERYTHING ELSE.
  • 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:09.150
  • - DAVID: AND, BASICALLY,
  • 00:11:09.150 --> 00:11:10.070
  • THAT'S THE STANDARD, THE
  • 00:11:10.070 --> 00:11:11.160
  • ULTIMATE AUTHORITY THAT WE CAN
  • 00:11:11.160 --> 00:11:13.090
  • APPEAL TO.
  • 00:11:13.090 --> 00:11:13.290
  • AND, YOU HAVE TO START
  • 00:11:13.290 --> 00:11:15.100
  • SOMEWHERE.
  • 00:11:15.100 --> 00:11:16.180
  • NOW, MANY PEOPLE START WITH THE
  • 00:11:16.180 --> 00:11:18.120
  • ASSUMPTION THAT, 14 BILLION
  • 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:19.230
  • YEARS AGO, THE UNIVERSE RAPIDLY
  • 00:11:19.230 --> 00:11:21.070
  • EXPANDED, CREATING TIME AND
  • 00:11:21.070 --> 00:11:22.250
  • SPACE AS IT WENT.
  • 00:11:22.250 --> 00:11:23.250
  • UH, EVENTUALLY, ALL THAT MATTER
  • 00:11:23.250 --> 00:11:25.240
  • COALESCED.
  • 00:11:25.240 --> 00:11:26.240
  • IT FORMED STARS, GALAXIES,
  • 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:28.170
  • PLANETS.
  • 00:11:28.170 --> 00:11:29.080
  • EVENTUALLY...WE CAME FROM
  • 00:11:29.080 --> 00:11:30.250
  • STARDUST, RIGHT?
  • 00:11:30.250 --> 00:11:31.290
  • SO, WE ASKED PEOPLE ON THE
  • 00:11:31.290 --> 00:11:32.290
  • STREET: DO YOU THINK IT TAKES
  • 00:11:32.290 --> 00:11:34.120
  • FAITH TO BELIEVE AN AMOEBA, FOR
  • 00:11:34.130 --> 00:11:37.130
  • INSTANCE, COULD TURN INTO A
  • 00:11:37.130 --> 00:11:38.210
  • MAN?
  • 00:11:38.210 --> 00:11:39.160
  • HERE'S WHAT WE GO.
  • 00:11:39.160 --> 00:11:41.120
  • [INDISTINCT CHATTER]
  • 00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:43.110
  • - VOICE OF WOMAN: I WANNA
  • 00:11:43.110 --> 00:11:44.180
  • BRING MY CAMERA.
  • 00:11:44.180 --> 00:11:45.180
  • [BACK-UP BEEPER SOUNDING]
  • 00:11:45.180 --> 00:11:46.220
  • - INTERVIEWEE: I DON'T KNOW IF
  • 00:11:46.220 --> 00:11:47.140
  • I CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION.
  • 00:11:47.140 --> 00:11:48.050
  • - INTERVIEWEE: I THINK IT'S
  • 00:11:48.050 --> 00:11:49.030
  • FAITH AND SCIENCE.
  • 00:11:49.030 --> 00:11:50.090
  • I MEAN...'CAUSE YOU CAN-- I
  • 00:11:50.090 --> 00:11:52.150
  • MEAN, IF YOU'RE IN A
  • 00:11:52.150 --> 00:11:53.100
  • LABORATORY, YOU CAN SEE CELLS
  • 00:11:53.100 --> 00:11:54.040
  • GROW FROM...EXPERIMENTS, SO...
  • 00:11:54.040 --> 00:11:56.100
  • - INTERVIEWEE: NO.
  • 00:11:56.100 --> 00:11:57.200
  • YOU-- LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION
  • 00:11:57.280 --> 00:12:01.000
  • AND...YOU HAVE A BABY IN NINE
  • 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:03.010
  • MONTHS, SO...
  • 00:12:03.010 --> 00:12:06.010
  • - INTERVIEWEE: [LAUGHS
  • 00:12:06.010 --> 00:12:06.190
  • SCOFFINGLY]
  • 00:12:06.190 --> 00:12:07.010
  • AFTER THESE DAYS, ANYTHING IS
  • 00:12:07.010 --> 00:12:07.240
  • POSSIBLE, UM...ESPECIALLY
  • 00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:08.160
  • WITH...
  • 00:12:08.160 --> 00:12:09.270
  • I MEAN, WE'VE SEEN, LIKE,
  • 00:12:09.270 --> 00:12:10.290
  • DIFFERENT KIND OF ANIMALS FROM
  • 00:12:10.290 --> 00:12:13.010
  • OUT OF NOWHERE IN THE SEA.
  • 00:12:13.010 --> 00:12:15.170
  • [BACK-UP BEEPER CHIMING]
  • 00:12:15.170 --> 00:12:16.260
  • SO, I THINK...IF WE COULD SEE
  • 00:12:16.260 --> 00:12:18.060
  • LIKE A LITTLE-- A LITTLE THING
  • 00:12:18.060 --> 00:12:20.140
  • TURN INTO, LIKE, A HUMAN BEING,
  • 00:12:20.140 --> 00:12:21.060
  • ESPECIALLY WITH THE GENETICS, I
  • 00:12:21.060 --> 00:12:23.020
  • THINK IT'S REALLY-- I THINK IT
  • 00:12:23.020 --> 00:12:24.190
  • COULD BE POSSIBLE.
  • 00:12:24.190 --> 00:12:25.290
  • - INTERVIEWEE: WELL, NO, I
  • 00:12:25.290 --> 00:12:27.160
  • MEAN, I THINK, UH...THERE'S TWO
  • 00:12:27.160 --> 00:12:28.200
  • LITTLE PARTICLES -- ONE IN A
  • 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:29.240
  • WOMAN, ONE IN A MAN -- AND,
  • 00:12:29.240 --> 00:12:30.240
  • ALL OF A SUDDEN, A BABY'S MADE,
  • 00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:33.220
  • AND...I THINK...(LAUGHS)
  • 00:12:33.220 --> 00:12:34.140
  • ...SOUNDS PRETTY ACCURATE TO
  • 00:12:34.140 --> 00:12:35.040
  • ME.
  • 00:12:35.040 --> 00:12:36.070
  • - INTERVIEWEE: IT DOES TAKE
  • 00:12:36.070 --> 00:12:36.270
  • FAITH TO BELIEVE THAT.
  • 00:12:36.270 --> 00:12:37.190
  • IT REALLY DOES.
  • 00:12:37.190 --> 00:12:39.230
  • - INTERVIEWEE: I THINK IT
  • 00:12:39.230 --> 00:12:40.120
  • WOULD PROBABLY TAKE SOME
  • 00:12:40.120 --> 00:12:42.000
  • PERSISTENCE, UH, TO WATCH
  • 00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:43.200
  • DIFFERENT PHENOMENA OCCUR OVER
  • 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:46.060
  • TIME TO TEST YOUR HYPOTHESIS,
  • 00:12:46.060 --> 00:12:49.050
  • UM, BUT I'M NOT NECESSARILY
  • 00:12:49.050 --> 00:12:50.030
  • SURE THAT FAITH IS A PART OF
  • 00:12:50.030 --> 00:12:50.240
  • THAT EQUATION.
  • 00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:52.200
  • - INTERVIEWEE: FAITH, AND A
  • 00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:53.250
  • LOT OF PRAYING, AND, PERHAPS, A
  • 00:12:53.250 --> 00:12:54.270
  • MIRACLE, YEAH.
  • 00:12:54.270 --> 00:12:56.200
  • - INTERVIEWEE (LEFT): YEAH.
  • 00:12:56.200 --> 00:12:57.110
  • I DO.
  • 00:12:57.110 --> 00:12:58.090
  • I MEAN, LIKE, BECAUSE THEY
  • 00:12:58.090 --> 00:13:00.060
  • STILL HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO
  • 00:13:00.060 --> 00:13:01.080
  • REPLICATE IT, LIKE, RIGHT?
  • 00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:01.280
  • SOME MULTICELLULAR ORGANISM
  • 00:13:01.280 --> 00:13:03.040
  • THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE ONE CELL
  • 00:13:03.040 --> 00:13:03.260
  • SWALLOWED ANOTHER AND STARTED
  • 00:13:03.260 --> 00:13:05.040
  • TO, LIKE, HANG OUT.
  • 00:13:05.040 --> 00:13:06.090
  • I'VE NEVER...SEEN THAT HAPPEN,
  • 00:13:06.090 --> 00:13:07.100
  • SO, IF YOU-- YOU HAVE WHATEVER
  • 00:13:07.100 --> 00:13:08.120
  • YOU WANT.
  • 00:13:08.120 --> 00:13:09.220
  • IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT, YOU
  • 00:13:09.220 --> 00:13:10.190
  • HAVE TO HAVE FAITH.
  • 00:13:10.190 --> 00:13:11.260
  • - INTERVIEWEE (LEFT): YEAH, I
  • 00:13:11.260 --> 00:13:12.180
  • GUESS SO.
  • 00:13:12.180 --> 00:13:14.080
  • - INTERVIEWEE (RIGHT): MM-HMM.
  • 00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:16.250
  • ALSO TAKES FAITH TO THINK THAT
  • 00:13:16.250 --> 00:13:18.000
  • DUST EVOLVED INTO A MAN.
  • 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:20.050
  • - INTERVIEWEE: ABSOLUTELY.
  • 00:13:20.050 --> 00:13:20.250
  • IT TAKES FAITH TO BELIEVE AN
  • 00:13:20.250 --> 00:13:22.150
  • AMOEBA CAN TURN INTO A MAN.
  • 00:13:22.150 --> 00:13:23.050
  • - INTERVIEWEE: YES, IT TAKES
  • 00:13:23.050 --> 00:13:23.260
  • FAITH TO BELIEVE IN A WHOLE
  • 00:13:23.260 --> 00:13:24.220
  • BUNCH OF STUFF.
  • 00:13:24.220 --> 00:13:25.230
  • LIKE, YOU JUST-- YOU HAVE THIS
  • 00:13:25.230 --> 00:13:27.190
  • PASSION ABOUT SOMETHING.
  • 00:13:27.190 --> 00:13:28.180
  • AND YOU BELIEVE THAT, OKAY,
  • 00:13:28.180 --> 00:13:31.060
  • MAYBE IF I TURN THIS INTO THIS,
  • 00:13:31.060 --> 00:13:32.000
  • PUT THESE TWO TOGETHER, THEN
  • 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:32.280
  • IT'S GONNA BECOME WHAT YOU
  • 00:13:32.280 --> 00:13:34.040
  • BELIEVE, SO...YEAH.
  • 00:13:34.040 --> 00:13:36.110
  • - INTERVIEWEE (RIGHT): YES.
  • 00:13:36.110 --> 00:13:37.140
  • - INTERVIEWEE (LEFT): SOME
  • 00:13:37.140 --> 00:13:38.040
  • SORT OF FAITH, YEAH.
  • 00:13:38.040 --> 00:13:39.020
  • [INDISTINCT CHATTER]
  • 00:13:39.020 --> 00:13:41.070
  • - DAVID: IT'S INTERESTING THAT
  • 00:13:41.070 --> 00:13:42.040
  • NEARLY EVERYONE SAID THAT IT
  • 00:13:42.040 --> 00:13:44.030
  • TAKES FAITH TO BELIEVE THAT AN
  • 00:13:44.030 --> 00:13:46.080
  • AMOEBA COULD TURN INTO A MAN.
  • 00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:47.250
  • AND, THAT'S ACCURATE BECAUSE
  • 00:13:47.250 --> 00:13:49.110
  • WE'VE NEVER SEEN IT TAKE PLACE.
  • 00:13:49.110 --> 00:13:52.070
  • THERE'S NOT AN EXPERIMENT WE
  • 00:13:52.070 --> 00:13:54.160
  • CAN DO TO TURN AN AMOEBA INTO A
  • 00:13:54.160 --> 00:13:55.280
  • MAN.
  • 00:13:55.280 --> 00:13:57.090
  • THERE-- IT'S NOT OBSERVABLE.
  • 00:13:57.090 --> 00:13:58.010
  • IT'S NOT REPEATABLE.
  • 00:13:58.010 --> 00:14:00.100
  • THAT MEANS THAT IT DOESN'T
  • 00:14:00.100 --> 00:14:01.100
  • FOLLOW THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD.
  • 00:14:01.100 --> 00:14:03.050
  • - JAY: IT REALLY DOESN'T.
  • 00:14:03.050 --> 00:14:05.290
  • FAITH IS GENERALLY SEEN AS A
  • 00:14:05.290 --> 00:14:06.190
  • WEAKER POSITION, BUT, YOU KNOW,
  • 00:14:06.190 --> 00:14:08.020
  • WE'VE KIND OF ADMITTED OUR
  • 00:14:08.020 --> 00:14:08.250
  • STARTING POINT AS CHRISTIANS:
  • 00:14:08.250 --> 00:14:09.270
  • BELIEVE THAT GOD EXISTS AND THE
  • 00:14:09.270 --> 00:14:10.210
  • BIBLE'S HIS WORD.
  • 00:14:10.210 --> 00:14:12.040
  • WHEN YOU ASK A SKEPTIC, "WELL,
  • 00:14:12.040 --> 00:14:13.050
  • WHAT IS YOUR STARTING POINT?"
  • 00:14:13.050 --> 00:14:14.090
  • MANY OF THEM HAVEN'T EVEN
  • 00:14:14.210 --> 00:14:17.210
  • THOUGHT THROUGH, LIKE, THAT
  • 00:14:17.210 --> 00:14:18.110
  • THEY HAVE A STARTING POINT.
  • 00:14:18.110 --> 00:14:19.050
  • THEY'LL TYPICALLY SAY, WELL,
  • 00:14:19.050 --> 00:14:19.250
  • THEIR STARTING POINT IS REALLY
  • 00:14:19.250 --> 00:14:20.160
  • ALL ABOUT FACTS, THOUGH.
  • 00:14:20.160 --> 00:14:21.040
  • SO, THEN I ASK 'EM, "WHAT DO
  • 00:14:21.040 --> 00:14:21.240
  • YOU MEAN BY FACTS?"
  • 00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:22.100
  • THEY SAY, "WELL, YOU KNOW --
  • 00:14:22.100 --> 00:14:23.110
  • YOU KNOW, SCIENCE AND PROVEN
  • 00:14:23.110 --> 00:14:24.110
  • THINGS."
  • 00:14:24.110 --> 00:14:24.290
  • - DAVID: MMH.
  • 00:14:24.290 --> 00:14:25.150
  • - JAY: OKAY, WELL, WHAT IS
  • 00:14:25.150 --> 00:14:26.150
  • SCIENCE, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE
  • 00:14:26.150 --> 00:14:27.260
  • TALKING ABOUT ORIGINS?
  • 00:14:27.260 --> 00:14:28.210
  • NOT SO MUCH ABOUT WEIGHING
  • 00:14:28.210 --> 00:14:29.260
  • SOMETHING IN THE LABORATORY
  • 00:14:29.260 --> 00:14:30.220
  • TODAY.
  • 00:14:30.220 --> 00:14:31.240
  • BUT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
  • 00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:32.250
  • EVENTS THAT HAPPENED IN THE
  • 00:14:32.250 --> 00:14:34.190
  • UNOBSERVED PAST, WHAT IS
  • 00:14:34.190 --> 00:14:35.080
  • SCIENCE?
  • 00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:36.050
  • SCIENCE IS REALLY THE THOUGHTS
  • 00:14:36.050 --> 00:14:36.260
  • AND OPINIONS OF OTHER MEN AND
  • 00:14:36.260 --> 00:14:38.230
  • WOMEN, MOST OF WHICH WE'VE
  • 00:14:38.230 --> 00:14:40.100
  • NEVER MET.
  • 00:14:40.100 --> 00:14:41.030
  • SO, THEN I WOULD ASK THE
  • 00:14:41.030 --> 00:14:42.060
  • SKEPTIC, "HOW DO YOU KNOW YOU
  • 00:14:42.060 --> 00:14:43.080
  • CAN TRUST THE THOUGHTS AND
  • 00:14:43.080 --> 00:14:44.160
  • OPINIONS OF OTHER MEN AND
  • 00:14:44.160 --> 00:14:45.100
  • WOMEN?"
  • 00:14:45.100 --> 00:14:45.270
  • AND THEN, THEY WOULD SAY,
  • 00:14:45.270 --> 00:14:46.260
  • "WELL, I CAN...I CAN JUST TELL.
  • 00:14:46.260 --> 00:14:48.230
  • I CAN THINK THROUGH THAT AND
  • 00:14:48.230 --> 00:14:50.240
  • REALIZE THAT THEY'RE CORRECT."
  • 00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:53.040
  • OKAY -- NOW, YOU'RE RELYING ON
  • 00:14:53.040 --> 00:14:53.250
  • YOUR OWN REASONING TO FIGURE
  • 00:14:53.250 --> 00:14:54.150
  • OUT MEN AND WOMEN YOU'VE NEVER
  • 00:14:54.150 --> 00:14:55.060
  • MET ARE CORRECT ABOUT THEIR
  • 00:14:55.060 --> 00:14:56.080
  • OPINIONS ABOUT THE PAST.
  • 00:14:56.080 --> 00:14:57.000
  • [DAVID LAUGHS]
  • 00:14:57.000 --> 00:14:57.290
  • - DAVID: UH-HUH.
  • 00:14:57.290 --> 00:14:58.260
  • - JAY: THEN, I ASK 'EM,
  • 00:14:58.260 --> 00:14:59.140
  • "HOW DO YOU KNOW YOU CAN TRUST
  • 00:14:59.140 --> 00:15:00.070
  • YOUR REASONING?"
  • 00:15:00.070 --> 00:15:00.240
  • - DAVID: MM-HMM.
  • 00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:01.100
  • - JAY: THEN, THEY SAY: "WELL,
  • 00:15:01.100 --> 00:15:02.180
  • I KNOW I CAN TRUST IT BECAUSE
  • 00:15:02.180 --> 00:15:03.090
  • IT'S WORKED WELL FOR ME
  • 00:15:03.090 --> 00:15:04.220
  • THROUGHOUT MY LIFE.
  • 00:15:04.220 --> 00:15:05.190
  • IT'S CONSISTENT AND..."
  • 00:15:05.190 --> 00:15:06.270
  • OKAY, SO NOW YOU'RE USING YOUR
  • 00:15:06.270 --> 00:15:08.080
  • REASON TO TELL YOU WHY YOU CAN
  • 00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:09.230
  • TRUST YOUR REASON, WHICH IS
  • 00:15:09.230 --> 00:15:11.190
  • CIRCULAR REASONING.
  • 00:15:11.190 --> 00:15:12.120
  • - DAVID: UH-HUH.
  • 00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:13.060
  • - JAY: AT THAT POINT, I SAY:
  • 00:15:13.060 --> 00:15:13.270
  • "YOU KNOW WHAT?
  • 00:15:13.270 --> 00:15:14.110
  • BUT THAT'S OKAY, BECAUSE
  • 00:15:14.110 --> 00:15:14.290
  • EVERYONE HAS TO START
  • 00:15:14.290 --> 00:15:15.170
  • SOMEWHERE.
  • 00:15:15.170 --> 00:15:16.260
  • I JUST WANTED YOU TO REALIZE
  • 00:15:16.260 --> 00:15:18.150
  • YOU'RE ULTIMATELY NOT SO MUCH
  • 00:15:18.150 --> 00:15:20.030
  • ABOUT FACTS.
  • 00:15:20.030 --> 00:15:21.010
  • YOU ASSUME YOU CAN TRUST YOUR
  • 00:15:21.010 --> 00:15:22.180
  • OWN REASONING, EVEN THOUGH YOU
  • 00:15:22.180 --> 00:15:23.290
  • CAN'T PROVE THAT.
  • 00:15:23.290 --> 00:15:25.130
  • THAT'S YOUR STARTING POINT.
  • 00:15:25.130 --> 00:15:26.030
  • SO, AT LEAST WE'RE BEING HONEST
  • 00:15:26.030 --> 00:15:28.000
  • ABOUT WHERE WE'RE BEGINNING AND
  • 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:28.220
  • WE USE THOSE STARTING POINTS,
  • 00:15:28.220 --> 00:15:31.000
  • THEN, TO EVALUATE EVERYTHING
  • 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:32.120
  • ELSE."
  • 00:15:32.120 --> 00:15:33.110
  • - DAVID: THAT'S VERY GOOD.
  • 00:15:33.110 --> 00:15:34.060
  • SO, HOW CAN WE USE THIS TO TEST
  • 00:15:34.060 --> 00:15:35.180
  • OUR WORLDVIEW?
  • 00:15:35.180 --> 00:15:38.160
  • OR IS THERE ANY TEST THAT WE
  • 00:15:38.160 --> 00:15:39.200
  • CAN DO?
  • 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:40.200
  • - JAY: SURE.
  • 00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:42.060
  • THAT'S WHAT WE DO.
  • 00:15:42.060 --> 00:15:44.020
  • BECAUSE STARTING POINTS, BY
  • 00:15:44.020 --> 00:15:44.220
  • DEFINITION, CAN'T BE PROVEN.
  • 00:15:44.220 --> 00:15:45.160
  • YOU GOTTA START SOMEWHERE.
  • 00:15:45.160 --> 00:15:46.280
  • YOU DON'T TRY TO PROVE OR
  • 00:15:46.280 --> 00:15:48.180
  • DISPROVE THEM.
  • 00:15:48.180 --> 00:15:50.040
  • WHAT YOU DO IS YOU TAKE 'EM ALL
  • 00:15:50.040 --> 00:15:50.260
  • FOR A TEST DRIVE.
  • 00:15:50.260 --> 00:15:51.110
  • - DAVID: OKAY...
  • 00:15:51.110 --> 00:15:52.150
  • - JAY: HOW WELL DO THEY WORK
  • 00:15:52.150 --> 00:15:53.070
  • WITH THE REAL WORLD AROUND US?
  • 00:15:53.070 --> 00:15:53.280
  • AND SO, WE'LL SEE, YOU KNOW,
  • 00:15:53.280 --> 00:15:55.010
  • HOW MUCH TIME WE HAVE FOR THE
  • 00:15:55.010 --> 00:15:55.220
  • EXAMPLES.
  • 00:15:55.220 --> 00:15:56.230
  • WE MIGHT LOOK AT SOME
  • 00:15:56.230 --> 00:15:57.230
  • SCIENTIFIC EXAMPLES AND
  • 00:15:57.230 --> 00:15:59.260
  • PHILOSOPHICAL TESTS TO SEE HOW
  • 00:15:59.260 --> 00:16:01.090
  • WELL WE'LL PIT THE CHRISTIAN
  • 00:16:01.090 --> 00:16:03.090
  • WORLDVIEW AGAINST THE ATHEISTIC
  • 00:16:03.090 --> 00:16:04.280
  • WORLDVIEW.
  • 00:16:04.280 --> 00:16:06.150
  • AND, THE FIRST EXAMPLE WE'LL
  • 00:16:06.250 --> 00:16:09.250
  • USE TESTING THESE WORLDVIEWS,
  • 00:16:09.250 --> 00:16:12.130
  • THESE STARTING POINTS, WOULD BE
  • 00:16:12.130 --> 00:16:13.050
  • THE IDEA OF LOGIC.
  • 00:16:13.050 --> 00:16:13.200
  • - DAVID: MM-HMM.
  • 00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:14.110
  • - JAY: SO, ALL WE'RE GONNA DO
  • 00:16:14.110 --> 00:16:15.020
  • IS WE'RE GONNA THINK THROUGH
  • 00:16:15.020 --> 00:16:15.220
  • WHAT LOGIC IS.
  • 00:16:15.220 --> 00:16:16.050
  • - DAVID: NOW, IS THIS
  • 00:16:16.050 --> 00:16:17.150
  • SOMETHING THAT WE CAN, SAY, THE
  • 00:16:17.150 --> 00:16:18.220
  • VIEWERS OUT THERE, THEY CAN
  • 00:16:18.220 --> 00:16:20.170
  • TAKE NOTE OF WHAT YOU'RE ABOUT
  • 00:16:20.170 --> 00:16:22.290
  • TO SAY AND ACTUALLY USE THESE
  • 00:16:22.290 --> 00:16:23.200
  • IN CONVERSATIONS, IN LOVING
  • 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:24.160
  • CONVERSATIONS, WITHOUT GETTING
  • 00:16:24.160 --> 00:16:26.230
  • TOO TECHNICAL OR...OR EVEN TOO
  • 00:16:26.230 --> 00:16:29.010
  • INTIMIDATED WHEN THEY TALK TO A
  • 00:16:29.010 --> 00:16:29.230
  • SKEPTIC?
  • 00:16:29.230 --> 00:16:31.110
  • - JAY: RIGHT, THIS IS
  • 00:16:31.110 --> 00:16:31.290
  • EXTREMELY PRACTICAL.
  • 00:16:31.290 --> 00:16:34.110
  • AND WE DO -- I'M GLAD YOU
  • 00:16:34.110 --> 00:16:36.190
  • BROUGHT THAT UP -- WE DO WANNA
  • 00:16:36.190 --> 00:16:37.110
  • DO THIS VERY GRACIOUSLY.
  • 00:16:37.110 --> 00:16:38.020
  • - DAVID: YEAH.
  • 00:16:38.020 --> 00:16:38.160
  • - JAY: AND THIS IS NOT
  • 00:16:38.160 --> 00:16:39.040
  • TECHNICAL, REALLY, AT ALL.
  • 00:16:39.040 --> 00:16:39.230
  • SO, THE VIEWERS COULD USE THIS
  • 00:16:39.230 --> 00:16:40.140
  • VERY SIMPLY.
  • 00:16:40.140 --> 00:16:41.200
  • - DAVID: OKAY.
  • 00:16:42.190 --> 00:16:45.190
  • - JAY: SO, WE'RE GONNA THINK
  • 00:16:45.190 --> 00:16:46.130
  • ABOUT LOGIC IS AND WE'RE GONNA
  • 00:16:46.130 --> 00:16:47.040
  • EVALUATE IT FROM EACH OF THE
  • 00:16:47.040 --> 00:16:48.220
  • TWO DIFFERENT WORLDVIEWS --
  • 00:16:48.220 --> 00:16:51.030
  • CHRISTIAN WORLDVIEW, ATHEISTIC
  • 00:16:51.030 --> 00:16:51.250
  • WORLDVIEW.
  • 00:16:51.250 --> 00:16:52.070
  • SO, I WOULD ASK AN ATHEIST, "DO
  • 00:16:52.070 --> 00:16:52.290
  • YOU BELIEVE THAT LOGIC EXISTS?"
  • 00:16:52.290 --> 00:16:53.210
  • AND THEY'D SAY: "WELL, OF
  • 00:16:53.210 --> 00:16:54.100
  • COURSE, I DO.
  • 00:16:54.100 --> 00:16:54.230
  • WHY WOULD YOU ASK?"
  • 00:16:54.230 --> 00:16:55.090
  • SAY: "JUST CHECKING.
  • 00:16:55.090 --> 00:16:56.080
  • DO YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE THERE
  • 00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:58.160
  • ARE LAWS OF LOGIC, LIKE THE LAW
  • 00:16:58.160 --> 00:16:59.080
  • OF NON-CONTRADICTION?
  • 00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:00.080
  • I CAN'T BOTH BE SITTING HERE
  • 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:02.080
  • TALKING TO YOU, RIGHT NOW, AND
  • 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:03.260
  • NOT SITTING HERE TALKING TO
  • 00:17:03.260 --> 00:17:05.010
  • YOU, RIGHT NOW."
  • 00:17:05.010 --> 00:17:06.040
  • - DAVID: MM-HMM.
  • 00:17:06.040 --> 00:17:07.010
  • - JAY: "ARE THERE LAWS OF
  • 00:17:07.010 --> 00:17:07.260
  • LOGIC?"
  • 00:17:07.260 --> 00:17:09.280
  • THEY WOULD SAY, "YEAH, THERE
  • 00:17:09.280 --> 00:17:11.010
  • ARE LAWS OF LOGIC."
  • 00:17:11.010 --> 00:17:13.040
  • "OKAY, ARE THESE LAWS PHYSICAL
  • 00:17:13.040 --> 00:17:13.250
  • THINGS?
  • 00:17:13.250 --> 00:17:14.110
  • CAN THEY TAKE 'EM INTO A
  • 00:17:14.110 --> 00:17:15.010
  • LABORATORY AND WEIGH THEM, AND
  • 00:17:15.010 --> 00:17:16.040
  • PAINT THEM, AND BEND THEM?"
  • 00:17:16.040 --> 00:17:16.240
  • THEY'D SAY, "NO, THEY'RE NOT
  • 00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:17.140
  • PHYSICAL THINGS; THEY'RE
  • 00:17:17.140 --> 00:17:18.020
  • NON-PHYSICAL THINGS."
  • 00:17:18.020 --> 00:17:18.190
  • "OKAY.
  • 00:17:18.190 --> 00:17:19.280
  • UM, ARE THEY THE SAME
  • 00:17:19.280 --> 00:17:20.280
  • EVERYWHERE, THESE LAWS OF
  • 00:17:20.280 --> 00:17:21.260
  • LOGIC?
  • 00:17:21.260 --> 00:17:22.120
  • ARE THEY THE SAME, YOU KNOW,
  • 00:17:22.120 --> 00:17:23.190
  • HERE IN DALLAS AS THEY ARE IN
  • 00:17:23.190 --> 00:17:24.150
  • OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY?
  • 00:17:24.150 --> 00:17:25.060
  • ON THE MOON?
  • 00:17:25.060 --> 00:17:26.260
  • OR ARE THEY DIFFERENT IN
  • 00:17:26.260 --> 00:17:27.140
  • DIFFERENT PLACES?
  • 00:17:27.140 --> 00:17:28.000
  • - DAVID: MM-HMM.
  • 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:29.180
  • - JAY: THE ATHEIST WOULD SAY,
  • 00:17:29.180 --> 00:17:30.210
  • "WELL, NO, THE LAWS OF LOGIC
  • 00:17:30.210 --> 00:17:32.000
  • ARE THE SAME EVERYWHERE."
  • 00:17:32.190 --> 00:17:35.190
  • - DAVID: OKAY.
  • 00:17:35.190 --> 00:17:36.050
  • - JAY: OKAY?
  • 00:17:36.050 --> 00:17:36.250
  • "DO THEY CHANGE?
  • 00:17:36.250 --> 00:17:37.130
  • WILL THE LAWS OF LOGIC BE THE
  • 00:17:37.130 --> 00:17:38.040
  • SAME TOMORROW AS THEY ARE
  • 00:17:38.040 --> 00:17:38.230
  • TODAY?
  • 00:17:38.230 --> 00:17:39.140
  • WERE THEY THE SAME A THOUSAND
  • 00:17:39.140 --> 00:17:40.050
  • YEARS AGO OR DID THEY CHANGE
  • 00:17:40.050 --> 00:17:40.250
  • OVER TIME?"
  • 00:17:40.250 --> 00:17:41.160
  • AND THEY WOULD SAY, "WELL, NO,
  • 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:42.070
  • THEY DON'T CHANGE."
  • 00:17:42.070 --> 00:17:43.130
  • - DAVID: MM-HMM.
  • 00:17:43.130 --> 00:17:44.120
  • - JAY: I WOULD SAY: "OKAY.
  • 00:17:44.120 --> 00:17:45.090
  • SO, YOU'RE TELLING ME YOU
  • 00:17:45.090 --> 00:17:46.210
  • BELIEVE THAT OUR LAWS OF LOGIC
  • 00:17:46.220 --> 00:17:49.220
  • THAT ARE NON-PHYSICAL THINGS
  • 00:17:49.220 --> 00:17:50.130
  • ARE THE SAME EVERYWHERE AND
  • 00:17:50.130 --> 00:17:51.030
  • THEY DON'T CHANGE?"
  • 00:17:51.030 --> 00:17:51.190
  • THEY'D SAY, "YES."
  • 00:17:51.190 --> 00:17:53.010
  • "OKAY, I HAVE ONE FINAL
  • 00:17:53.010 --> 00:17:53.250
  • QUESTION FOR YOU, THEN.
  • 00:17:53.250 --> 00:17:55.140
  • WHERE DO THEY COME FROM?
  • 00:17:55.140 --> 00:17:56.140
  • USING YOUR STARTING POINT, YOUR
  • 00:17:57.290 --> 00:18:01.010
  • WORLDVIEW, THE THING THAT YOU
  • 00:18:01.010 --> 00:18:02.080
  • CHOSE, HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHERE
  • 00:18:02.080 --> 00:18:03.010
  • DO THESE NON-PHYSICAL LAWS OF
  • 00:18:03.010 --> 00:18:04.020
  • LOGIC COME FROM?
  • 00:18:04.020 --> 00:18:05.050
  • 'CAUSE, AS AN ATHEIST, THE ONLY
  • 00:18:05.050 --> 00:18:06.160
  • THING YOU THINK EXISTS IS
  • 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:07.290
  • MATTER AND ENERGY."
  • 00:18:07.290 --> 00:18:09.000
  • - DAVID: THAT'S TRUE.
  • 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:09.260
  • - JAY: "PHYSICAL STUFF.
  • 00:18:09.260 --> 00:18:10.140
  • WE'VE NEVER SEEN MATTER AND
  • 00:18:10.140 --> 00:18:11.040
  • ENERGY CREATE A NON-PHYSICAL
  • 00:18:11.040 --> 00:18:12.230
  • THING, BUT YOU BELIEVE THESE
  • 00:18:12.230 --> 00:18:13.130
  • NON-PHYSICAL THINGS.
  • 00:18:13.130 --> 00:18:13.290
  • ALSO, USING YOUR STARTING POINT
  • 00:18:13.290 --> 00:18:16.150
  • -- THE THING YOU CHOSE -- HELP
  • 00:18:16.150 --> 00:18:17.060
  • ME UNDERSTAND WHAT IS IT IN
  • 00:18:17.060 --> 00:18:19.170
  • YOUR WORLDVIEW THAT TELLS YOU
  • 00:18:19.170 --> 00:18:21.140
  • THESE LAWS ARE THE SAME
  • 00:18:21.140 --> 00:18:22.020
  • EVERYWHERE?
  • 00:18:22.020 --> 00:18:23.020
  • AND, LASTLY, WHAT IS IT IN YOUR
  • 00:18:23.020 --> 00:18:24.110
  • WORLDVIEW THAT TELLS YOU THEY
  • 00:18:24.110 --> 00:18:25.160
  • NEVER CHANGE?
  • 00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:27.070
  • THERE'S ACTUALLY ABSOLUTELY
  • 00:18:27.070 --> 00:18:28.220
  • NOTHING IN AN ATHEISTIC
  • 00:18:28.220 --> 00:18:30.240
  • WORLDVIEW THAT CAN ACCOUNT
  • 00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:31.260
  • FOR LAW OF LOGIC THAT ARE
  • 00:18:31.260 --> 00:18:34.060
  • NON-PHYSICAL, THE SAME
  • 00:18:34.060 --> 00:18:35.190
  • EVERYWHERE, AND THEY DON'T
  • 00:18:35.190 --> 00:18:36.080
  • CHANGE.
  • 00:18:36.080 --> 00:18:36.290
  • - DAVID: WOW.
  • 00:18:36.290 --> 00:18:37.180
  • - JAY: OKAY?
  • 00:18:37.180 --> 00:18:39.240
  • DID WE JUST DISPROVE THEIR
  • 00:18:39.240 --> 00:18:40.130
  • WORLDVIEW?
  • 00:18:40.130 --> 00:18:41.110
  • NO, AND WE'RE NOT TRYING TO.
  • 00:18:41.110 --> 00:18:43.010
  • - DAVID: NO.
  • 00:18:43.010 --> 00:18:44.200
  • - JAY: JUST TESTING IT AND
  • 00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:45.100
  • IT'S NOT...LOOKING GOOD SO FAR.
  • 00:18:45.100 --> 00:18:46.020
  • THEN, YOU SWITCH OVER TO THE
  • 00:18:46.020 --> 00:18:46.220
  • CHRISTIAN WORLDVIEW.
  • 00:18:46.220 --> 00:18:47.080
  • - DAVID: OKAY.
  • 00:18:47.080 --> 00:18:47.220
  • - JAY: HOW DOES A CHRISTIAN
  • 00:18:47.220 --> 00:18:48.120
  • HANDLE THIS?
  • 00:18:48.120 --> 00:18:48.240
  • VERY SIMPLY.
  • 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:49.060
  • CHRISTIANS BELIEVE IN A GOD WHO
  • 00:18:49.060 --> 00:18:50.010
  • IS NON-PHYSICAL.
  • 00:18:50.010 --> 00:18:52.030
  • HE'S THE SAME EVERYWHERE AND HE
  • 00:18:52.030 --> 00:18:53.080
  • DOESN'T CHANGE.
  • 00:18:53.080 --> 00:18:54.060
  • - DAVID: INTERESTING.
  • 00:18:54.060 --> 00:18:56.090
  • - JAY: THAT GOD CREATED A
  • 00:18:56.090 --> 00:18:56.280
  • UNIVERSE THAT OPERATES UNDER
  • 00:18:56.280 --> 00:18:59.110
  • LAWS OF LOGIC THAT REFLECT HIS
  • 00:18:59.110 --> 00:19:00.040
  • CHARACTER.
  • 00:19:00.040 --> 00:19:00.260
  • THEY ARE NON-PHYSICAL, THE SAME
  • 00:19:00.260 --> 00:19:01.270
  • EVERYWHERE, AND DO NOT CHANGE.
  • 00:19:01.270 --> 00:19:02.260
  • IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE ON A
  • 00:19:02.260 --> 00:19:04.090
  • CHRISTIAN WORLDVIEW, BUT IT'S
  • 00:19:04.090 --> 00:19:05.090
  • TOTALLY ANTITHETICAL TO AN
  • 00:19:05.090 --> 00:19:07.210
  • ATHEISTIC WORLDVIEW.
  • 00:19:07.210 --> 00:19:08.070
  • - DAVID: WOW!
  • 00:19:08.070 --> 00:19:09.000
  • AND THAT'S-- THAT'S VERY
  • 00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:09.220
  • SIMPLE.
  • 00:19:09.220 --> 00:19:11.170
  • AND YOU CAN ASK THE SAME
  • 00:19:11.170 --> 00:19:12.070
  • QUESTION TO TWO DIFFERENT
  • 00:19:12.070 --> 00:19:15.010
  • PEOPLE AND SAY, "WHICH ONE IS
  • 00:19:15.010 --> 00:19:15.220
  • MORE CONSISTENT?"
  • 00:19:15.220 --> 00:19:16.070
  • OKAY.
  • 00:19:16.070 --> 00:19:18.030
  • - JAY: YEAH.
  • 00:19:18.030 --> 00:19:19.050
  • - DAVID: SO, WE-- ANYONE CAN
  • 00:19:19.050 --> 00:19:21.060
  • DO THIS.
  • 00:19:21.060 --> 00:19:22.070
  • - JAY: VERY SIMPLE.
  • 00:19:22.070 --> 00:19:23.080
  • AGAIN, YOU'RE JUST GRACIOUSLY
  • 00:19:23.080 --> 00:19:23.290
  • ASKING QUESTIONS, PROBING A
  • 00:19:23.290 --> 00:19:24.190
  • LITTLE BIT DEEPER TO SEE HOW
  • 00:19:24.190 --> 00:19:25.140
  • THEY ACCOUNT FOR CERTAIN
  • 00:19:25.140 --> 00:19:26.070
  • THINGS, GIVEN THEIR STARTING
  • 00:19:26.070 --> 00:19:26.280
  • POINT.
  • 00:19:26.280 --> 00:19:29.110
  • - DAVID: SO, AND, OF COURSE,
  • 00:19:29.110 --> 00:19:32.000
  • ANYONE WHO'S HONEST WOULD HAVE
  • 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:33.030
  • TO SAY, "OKAY, YEAH, I DO--
  • 00:19:33.030 --> 00:19:35.040
  • THIS DOESN'T FULLY MATCH MY
  • 00:19:35.040 --> 00:19:35.240
  • STARTING POINT, IF I'M STARTING
  • 00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:36.160
  • FROM A NATURALISTIC ASSUMPTION
  • 00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:37.070
  • THAT WE'RE HERE BECAUSE WE'RE
  • 00:19:37.070 --> 00:19:37.280
  • HERE."
  • 00:19:37.280 --> 00:19:38.070
  • [INHALES DEEPLY]
  • 00:19:38.070 --> 00:19:39.000
  • THEN, WHAT DO YOU SAY?
  • 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:39.210
  • - JAY: WELL, TWO THINGS.
  • 00:19:39.210 --> 00:19:40.230
  • ONE IS I WOULD SAY: "YOU KNOW
  • 00:19:40.230 --> 00:19:41.140
  • WHAT?
  • 00:19:41.140 --> 00:19:42.100
  • IF YOUR WORLDVIEW CAN'T EVEN
  • 00:19:42.100 --> 00:19:44.250
  • ACCOUNT FOR LOGIC, YOU'RE KINDA
  • 00:19:44.250 --> 00:19:45.230
  • DONE."
  • 00:19:45.230 --> 00:19:46.080
  • [DAVID LAUGHS]
  • 00:19:46.080 --> 00:19:46.290
  • 'CAUSE YOU NEED TO USE LOGIC TO
  • 00:19:46.290 --> 00:19:47.270
  • TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE.
  • 00:19:47.270 --> 00:19:49.050
  • - DAVID: YEAH...
  • 00:19:49.050 --> 00:19:50.230
  • - JAY: SO, WITH THAT, I WOULD
  • 00:19:50.230 --> 00:19:51.150
  • SAY, "OKAY, LET'S DO ANOTHER
  • 00:19:51.150 --> 00:19:52.050
  • TEST."
  • 00:19:52.050 --> 00:19:52.140
  • THEN, I WOULD ASK THEM, "IS
  • 00:19:52.140 --> 00:19:53.040
  • THERE ANYTHING YOU THINK YOU
  • 00:19:53.040 --> 00:19:54.020
  • KNOW FOR SURE?"
  • 00:19:54.020 --> 00:19:55.150
  • THIS HAS TO WITH THE IDEA OF
  • 00:19:55.150 --> 00:19:56.190
  • KNOWLEDGE AND CERTAINTY.
  • 00:19:56.190 --> 00:19:57.200
  • - DAVID: MM-HMM.
  • 00:19:57.200 --> 00:19:58.150
  • - JAY: "ANYTHING THAT YOU FEEL
  • 00:19:58.150 --> 00:19:59.070
  • THAT YOU REALLY KNOW ABSOLUTELY
  • 00:19:59.070 --> 00:20:00.120
  • FOR SURE -- THERE'S NO WAY YOU
  • 00:20:00.120 --> 00:20:01.210
  • COULD BE WRONG."
  • 00:20:01.210 --> 00:20:03.080
  • AND THEY MIGHT SAY, "WELL,
  • 00:20:03.080 --> 00:20:04.190
  • I...I KNOW I'M HERE, RIGHT
  • 00:20:04.190 --> 00:20:06.260
  • NOW."
  • 00:20:06.260 --> 00:20:07.090
  • [DAVID LAUGHS]
  • 00:20:07.090 --> 00:20:07.230
  • I'D SAY: "OKAY.
  • 00:20:07.230 --> 00:20:08.070
  • HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?
  • 00:20:08.070 --> 00:20:08.240
  • HOW DO YOU KNOW YOU'RE NOT JUST
  • 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:09.160
  • DREAMING YOU'RE HERE?"
  • 00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:10.030
  • "'CAUSE WE'RE TALKING TO YOU."
  • 00:20:10.030 --> 00:20:10.240
  • - DAVID: MM-HMM.
  • 00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:11.090
  • - JAY: "HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT
  • 00:20:11.090 --> 00:20:12.000
  • YOU'RE NOT JUST DREAMING YOU'RE
  • 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:12.220
  • TALKING TO ME?"
  • 00:20:12.220 --> 00:20:13.060
  • "'CAUSE YOU'RE TALKIN' BACK TO
  • 00:20:13.060 --> 00:20:13.270
  • ME."
  • 00:20:13.270 --> 00:20:14.100
  • "HOW DO YOU KNOW YOU'RE NOT
  • 00:20:14.100 --> 00:20:15.020
  • JUST DREAMING I'M TALKING BACK
  • 00:20:15.020 --> 00:20:15.230
  • TO YOU?"
  • 00:20:15.230 --> 00:20:17.160
  • "WELL, 'CAUSE I CAN PINCH
  • 00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:19.100
  • MYSELF.
  • 00:20:19.100 --> 00:20:19.210
  • I CAN FEEL IT."
  • 00:20:19.210 --> 00:20:20.050
  • "HOW DO YOU KNOW YOU DIDN'T
  • 00:20:20.050 --> 00:20:20.260
  • JUST DREAM THAT YOU PINCHED
  • 00:20:20.260 --> 00:20:21.160
  • YOURSELF?"
  • 00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:21.280
  • - DAVID: MM-HMM.
  • 00:20:21.280 --> 00:20:23.050
  • - JAY: TECHNICALLY, WE CAN'T
  • 00:20:23.050 --> 00:20:24.010
  • EVEN SCIENTIFICALLY PROVE THAT
  • 00:20:24.010 --> 00:20:25.180
  • WE'RE HERE, RIGHT NOW.
  • 00:20:25.180 --> 00:20:26.100
  • NOW, THERE'S A LOT OF GREAT
  • 00:20:26.100 --> 00:20:27.210
  • EVIDENCE TO MAKE IT VERY
  • 00:20:27.210 --> 00:20:28.260
  • REASONABLE TO ASSUME WE-- WE
  • 00:20:28.260 --> 00:20:30.210
  • REALLY EXIST.
  • 00:20:30.210 --> 00:20:31.060
  • - DAVID: WE REALLY ARE.
  • 00:20:31.060 --> 00:20:32.100
  • NO.
  • 00:20:32.100 --> 00:20:32.180
  • - JAY: BUT YOU CAN'T
  • 00:20:32.180 --> 00:20:33.050
  • TECHNICALLY PROVE IT.
  • 00:20:33.050 --> 00:20:33.220
  • SO, THEN I WOULD ASK ANOTHER
  • 00:20:33.220 --> 00:20:34.120
  • QUESTION: "OUT OF ALL THE
  • 00:20:34.120 --> 00:20:35.010
  • INFORMATION THAT'S POSSIBLE TO
  • 00:20:35.010 --> 00:20:35.240
  • KNOW IN THE UNIVERSE, WHAT
  • 00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:37.190
  • PERCENTAGE DO YOU FEEL YOU
  • 00:20:37.190 --> 00:20:38.170
  • KNOW?"
  • 00:20:38.170 --> 00:20:39.210
  • - DAVID: WOW.
  • 00:20:39.210 --> 00:20:40.060
  • - JAY: THEY'D PROBABLY SAY,
  • 00:20:40.060 --> 00:20:41.080
  • "PRETTY SMALL."
  • 00:20:41.080 --> 00:20:42.160
  • I'D SAY: "YEAH, ME, TOO."
  • 00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:43.280
  • - DAVID: YEAH.
  • 00:20:43.280 --> 00:20:45.170
  • - JAY: BUT LET'S JUST SAY, FOR
  • 00:20:45.170 --> 00:20:46.180
  • ARGUMENT'S SAKE, THEY SAID THEY
  • 00:20:46.180 --> 00:20:47.100
  • THINK THEY KNOW 1 PERCENT.
  • 00:20:47.100 --> 00:20:48.040
  • - DAVID: OKAY.
  • 00:20:48.040 --> 00:20:49.110
  • - JAY: OKAY, I'D SAY: "OKAY.
  • 00:20:49.110 --> 00:20:51.010
  • IF YOU THINK YOU KNOW 1 PERCENT
  • 00:20:51.010 --> 00:20:51.230
  • OF EVERYTHING, IS IT
  • 00:20:51.230 --> 00:20:52.240
  • POSSIBLE...IT IS AT ALL
  • 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:54.000
  • POSSIBLE THAT SOMETHING IN THE
  • 00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:55.190
  • 99 PERCENT THAT YOU'RE
  • 00:20:55.190 --> 00:20:56.280
  • ADMITTING YOU DON'T KNOW WOULD
  • 00:20:56.280 --> 00:20:59.070
  • REVEAL YOU'RE ACTUALLY WRONG
  • 00:20:59.070 --> 00:20:59.270
  • ABOUT WHAT YOU THOUGHT YOU KNEW
  • 00:20:59.270 --> 00:21:00.210
  • IN THE 1 PERCENT.
  • 00:21:00.210 --> 00:21:01.090
  • IS THAT POSSIBLE?"
  • 00:21:01.090 --> 00:21:02.140
  • THEY'D HAVE TO SAY, "WELL,
  • 00:21:02.140 --> 00:21:03.050
  • YEAH, IT'S POSSIBLE."
  • 00:21:03.050 --> 00:21:05.160
  • - DAVID: HMH.
  • 00:21:05.160 --> 00:21:06.110
  • - JAY: "AND IF IT'S POSSIBLE
  • 00:21:06.110 --> 00:21:07.210
  • YOU'RE WRONG ABOUT THE
  • 00:21:07.210 --> 00:21:08.170
  • 1 PERCENT, DO YOU REALLY KNOW
  • 00:21:08.170 --> 00:21:09.080
  • THE 1 PERCENT?"
  • 00:21:09.080 --> 00:21:09.220
  • "NO."
  • 00:21:09.220 --> 00:21:10.060
  • "IN FACT, YOU CAN'T KNOW
  • 00:21:10.060 --> 00:21:11.090
  • ANYTHING AT ALL...FOR SURE."
  • 00:21:11.090 --> 00:21:12.170
  • - DAVID: THAT'S TRUE.
  • 00:21:12.170 --> 00:21:14.030
  • - JAY: AND THEY'D SAID, "WELL,
  • 00:21:14.030 --> 00:21:14.250
  • YOU CAN'T, EITHER."
  • 00:21:14.250 --> 00:21:16.120
  • I'D SAY, "ARE YOU SURE ABOUT
  • 00:21:16.120 --> 00:21:17.020
  • THAT?"
  • 00:21:17.020 --> 00:21:17.110
  • [BOTH LAUGH]
  • 00:21:17.110 --> 00:21:18.060
  • YOU KNOW, IT SOUNDS A LITTLE
  • 00:21:18.060 --> 00:21:19.000
  • JUVENILE, AND WE DON'T REALLY
  • 00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:19.280
  • WANNA GO THAT ROUTE, BUT WE'RE
  • 00:21:19.280 --> 00:21:22.020
  • JUST THINKING THROUGH THIS.
  • 00:21:22.020 --> 00:21:23.090
  • - DAVID: RIGHT.
  • 00:21:23.090 --> 00:21:24.070
  • - JAY: NOW, IT'S INTERESTING.
  • 00:21:24.070 --> 00:21:24.280
  • THERE IS ONE WAY YOU COULD KNOW
  • 00:21:24.280 --> 00:21:25.200
  • SOMETHING FOR SURE.
  • 00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:26.060
  • - DAVID: OKAY.
  • 00:21:26.060 --> 00:21:26.200
  • - JAY: AND THAT IS IF YOU KNEW
  • 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:27.120
  • 100 PERCENT OF EVERYTHING.
  • 00:21:27.120 --> 00:21:30.120
  • NOW, THAT DOESN'T LOOK TOO GOOD
  • 00:21:30.120 --> 00:21:31.040
  • FOR US, SORT OF THING.
  • 00:21:31.040 --> 00:21:33.220
  • - DAVID: NO, THAT'S NOT GONNA
  • 00:21:33.220 --> 00:21:34.130
  • HAPPEN.
  • 00:21:34.130 --> 00:21:34.230
  • - JAY: BUT THERE'S ONE OTHER
  • 00:21:34.230 --> 00:21:35.150
  • WAY YOU COULD KNOW.
  • 00:21:35.150 --> 00:21:36.260
  • - DAVID: OKAY.
  • 00:21:36.260 --> 00:21:37.100
  • - JAY: THAT IS IF YOU KNEW
  • 00:21:37.100 --> 00:21:38.060
  • SOMEONE WHO KNEW EVERYTHING...
  • 00:21:38.060 --> 00:21:39.060
  • - DAVID: UH-HUH.
  • 00:21:39.060 --> 00:21:40.000
  • - JAY: ...AND THAT PERSON
  • 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:41.020
  • CHOSE TO TELL YOU SOME OF THAT,
  • 00:21:41.020 --> 00:21:41.240
  • IN WAY YOU COULD UNDERSTAND,
  • 00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:43.060
  • AND DIDN'T LIE ABOUT IT.
  • 00:21:43.060 --> 00:21:44.040
  • - DAVID: OKAY.
  • 00:21:44.040 --> 00:21:44.250
  • - JAY: THIS IS THE CHRISTIAN
  • 00:21:44.250 --> 00:21:45.250
  • WORLDVIEW.
  • 00:21:45.250 --> 00:21:46.260
  • CHRISTIANS BELIEVE IN A GOD WHO
  • 00:21:46.260 --> 00:21:48.000
  • KNOWS EVERYTHING, AND HE'S
  • 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:49.190
  • REVEALED SOME OF THAT TO US,
  • 00:21:49.190 --> 00:21:50.160
  • AND HE DOESN'T LIE.
  • 00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:51.260
  • - DAVID: WOW.
  • 00:21:51.260 --> 00:21:52.190
  • - JAY: A CHRISTIAN ACTUALLY
  • 00:21:52.190 --> 00:21:54.200
  • HAS A PHILOSOPHICAL BASIS FOR
  • 00:21:54.200 --> 00:21:55.290
  • CLAIMING TO KNOW SOMETHING
  • 00:21:55.290 --> 00:21:57.070
  • ABSOLUTELY FOR SURE, WHEREAS AN
  • 00:21:57.070 --> 00:21:58.280
  • ATHEIST HAS TO ADMIT THEY COULD
  • 00:21:58.280 --> 00:22:00.180
  • BE WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING.
  • 00:22:00.180 --> 00:22:01.170
  • - DAVID: THAT'S AMAZING!
  • 00:22:01.170 --> 00:22:02.080
  • AND IT'S SIMPLE.
  • 00:22:02.080 --> 00:22:04.030
  • IT'S SOMETHING THAT ANYONE CAN
  • 00:22:04.030 --> 00:22:04.270
  • DO WHEN WITNESSING.
  • 00:22:04.270 --> 00:22:07.140
  • AND I THINK, TODAY, WE'RE A
  • 00:22:07.140 --> 00:22:08.170
  • LITTLE BIT INTIMIDATED TO GO
  • 00:22:08.170 --> 00:22:10.030
  • OUT AND TO TALK TO OTHERS,
  • 00:22:10.030 --> 00:22:12.100
  • BECAUSE, EVERYONE HAS BEEN
  • 00:22:12.100 --> 00:22:14.020
  • STEEPED-- OR NOT EVERYONE, BUT
  • 00:22:14.020 --> 00:22:15.170
  • THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE
  • 00:22:15.170 --> 00:22:17.180
  • POPULATION HAS BEEN STEEPED
  • 00:22:17.180 --> 00:22:19.120
  • IN THIS IDEA THAT...WE
  • 00:22:19.140 --> 00:22:22.140
  • ARE...RELATED TO APELIKE
  • 00:22:22.140 --> 00:22:24.220
  • ANCESTORS OVER MILLIONS OF
  • 00:22:24.220 --> 00:22:26.270
  • YEARS OF SLOW EVOLUTION.
  • 00:22:26.270 --> 00:22:28.270
  • AND THIS VIEW HAS SO PERMEATED
  • 00:22:29.070 --> 00:22:32.070
  • SOCIETY, AND IT HAS SO
  • 00:22:32.070 --> 00:22:34.100
  • PERMEATED SOCIETY IN A WAY THAT
  • 00:22:34.100 --> 00:22:35.250
  • IT'S BEEN TAUGHT AS FACT THAT
  • 00:22:35.250 --> 00:22:37.050
  • WE'RE AFRAID TO EVEN COME
  • 00:22:37.050 --> 00:22:38.100
  • AGAINST THAT OR APPEAR
  • 00:22:38.100 --> 00:22:39.090
  • IGNORANT.
  • 00:22:40.080 --> 00:22:43.080
  • - JAY: YEAH.
  • 00:22:43.080 --> 00:22:44.000
  • THE QUOTE WOULD BE LIKE: "OH,
  • 00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:44.270
  • RIGHT.
  • 00:22:44.270 --> 00:22:45.130
  • NOW, YOU'RE RIGHT AND ALL THE
  • 00:22:45.130 --> 00:22:46.070
  • SCIENTISTS ARE WRONG."
  • 00:22:46.070 --> 00:22:47.020
  • [DAVID LAUGHS]
  • 00:22:47.020 --> 00:22:47.220
  • AND IT IS INTIMIDATING.
  • 00:22:47.220 --> 00:22:49.030
  • WELL, MOST PEOPLE BELIEVE IN
  • 00:22:49.030 --> 00:22:50.200
  • EVOLUTION BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN
  • 00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:52.090
  • TAUGHT THAT MOST PEOPLE BELIEVE
  • 00:22:52.090 --> 00:22:53.010
  • IN EVOLUTION.
  • 00:22:53.010 --> 00:22:55.020
  • BUT, MY EXPERIENCE -- 33 YEARS
  • 00:22:55.020 --> 00:22:55.230
  • -- IS THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF
  • 00:22:55.230 --> 00:22:57.270
  • PEOPLE I TALK TO...MIGHT
  • 00:22:57.270 --> 00:23:00.070
  • BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION, BUT THEY
  • 00:23:00.070 --> 00:23:01.130
  • THEMSELVES CAN'T GIVE YOU ANY
  • 00:23:01.130 --> 00:23:02.210
  • FACTS.
  • 00:23:02.210 --> 00:23:03.130
  • THEY JUST SAY: "WELL, THERE'S
  • 00:23:03.130 --> 00:23:04.040
  • TONS OF BOOKS OUT THERE.
  • 00:23:04.040 --> 00:23:04.290
  • GO GET A BOOK IF YOU WANNA
  • 00:23:04.290 --> 00:23:05.190
  • KNOW."
  • 00:23:05.190 --> 00:23:06.030
  • IT'S LIKE: OKAY, YOU DON'T KNOW
  • 00:23:06.030 --> 00:23:07.040
  • THE DETAILS OR THE EVIDENCE, SO
  • 00:23:07.040 --> 00:23:08.170
  • YOU'RE ACTUALLY EXERCISING
  • 00:23:08.170 --> 00:23:09.250
  • FAITH IN IT, BECAUSE YOU DON'T
  • 00:23:09.250 --> 00:23:11.020
  • KNOW THE SPECIFICS.
  • 00:23:11.020 --> 00:23:12.030
  • - DAVID: WE-- AND IT IS FAITH.
  • 00:23:12.030 --> 00:23:13.150
  • BUT THEY WILL SOMETIMES SPOUT
  • 00:23:13.150 --> 00:23:14.270
  • THESE "FACTS" THAT THEY LEARNED
  • 00:23:14.270 --> 00:23:16.120
  • IN UNIVERSITY IN SUCH A WAY
  • 00:23:17.170 --> 00:23:20.170
  • THAT-- THEY'RE PRETTY CONFIDENT
  • 00:23:20.170 --> 00:23:21.090
  • IN THEMSELVES.
  • 00:23:21.090 --> 00:23:22.270
  • LISTEN, I WAS WONDERING IF YOU
  • 00:23:22.270 --> 00:23:23.190
  • WOULD BE WILLING TO TACKLE A
  • 00:23:23.190 --> 00:23:25.010
  • QUESTION FROM OUR AUDIENCE.
  • 00:23:25.010 --> 00:23:25.270
  • - JAY: THAT'D BE GREAT.
  • 00:23:25.270 --> 00:23:26.160
  • - DAVID: LET'S TAKE A LOOK,
  • 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:27.060
  • RIGHT NOW.
  • 00:23:27.060 --> 00:23:28.050
  • [MUSIC INTERLUDE]
  • 00:23:29.030 --> 00:23:32.030
  • - MALE ON CAMERA: OKAY, SO,
  • 00:23:32.030 --> 00:23:32.250
  • I'M CURIOUS -- HAVEN'T WE FOUND
  • 00:23:32.250 --> 00:23:34.030
  • VARIOUS, OR MULTIPLE, FOSSILS
  • 00:23:34.030 --> 00:23:36.030
  • OF APES TURNING INTO MEN?
  • 00:23:36.030 --> 00:23:38.220
  • [MUSIC INTERLUDE]
  • 00:23:40.260 --> 00:23:43.260
  • - DAVID: WHAT DO YOU SAY TO
  • 00:23:43.260 --> 00:23:44.160
  • THAT?
  • 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:44.290
  • - JAY: RIGHT.
  • 00:23:44.290 --> 00:23:45.160
  • WHEN YOU FIND A FOSSIL, IT'S
  • 00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:47.200
  • NOT DOIN' ANYTHING.
  • 00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:48.070
  • [BOTH LAUGH LIGHTLY]
  • 00:23:48.070 --> 00:23:48.230
  • IT'S JUST LAYIN' THERE.
  • 00:23:48.230 --> 00:23:49.110
  • IT IS A FOSSIL, BUT IT'S NOT
  • 00:23:49.110 --> 00:23:50.010
  • TURNING INTO ANYTHING.
  • 00:23:50.010 --> 00:23:50.180
  • YOU HAVE TO READ INTO IT.
  • 00:23:52.030 --> 00:23:55.030
  • AND YOU SEE ONE FOSSIL, ANOTHER
  • 00:23:55.030 --> 00:23:55.250
  • ONE, THEN ASSUME THAT THIS
  • 00:23:55.250 --> 00:23:56.140
  • ONE'S SLOWLY CHANGED INTO THE
  • 00:23:56.140 --> 00:23:57.050
  • OTHER ONE.
  • 00:23:57.050 --> 00:23:58.090
  • WELL, LOTS OF PROBLEMS WITH
  • 00:23:58.090 --> 00:23:58.290
  • THAT.
  • 00:23:58.290 --> 00:23:59.080
  • WE DON'T SEE THOSE TRANSITIONAL
  • 00:23:59.080 --> 00:24:00.020
  • FORMS.
  • 00:24:00.020 --> 00:24:00.290
  • AND THE BEST RESPONSE IS NOT TO
  • 00:24:00.290 --> 00:24:01.290
  • ARGUE ABOUT ONE OR TWO EXAMPLES
  • 00:24:01.290 --> 00:24:03.210
  • THEY MAY BRING UP.
  • 00:24:03.210 --> 00:24:04.180
  • IF EVOLUTION WERE TRUE, WE
  • 00:24:04.180 --> 00:24:06.120
  • SHOULDN'T JUST HAVE A FEW-- YOU
  • 00:24:06.120 --> 00:24:08.160
  • KNOW, A SMALL HANDFUL OF
  • 00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:09.240
  • QUESTIONABLE EXAMPLES, WHICH
  • 00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:11.100
  • THEY HAVE; WE SHOULD BE
  • 00:24:11.100 --> 00:24:12.140
  • DROWNING IN TRANSITIONAL FORMS.
  • 00:24:12.140 --> 00:24:13.150
  • SO, FOSSILS, AGAIN, DON'T SAY
  • 00:24:13.150 --> 00:24:15.030
  • ANYTHING.
  • 00:24:15.030 --> 00:24:16.280
  • WHEN WE FIND THEM, THEY APPEAR
  • 00:24:16.280 --> 00:24:18.040
  • ABRUPTLY AND FULLY FORMED.
  • 00:24:18.040 --> 00:24:20.110
  • AND EVEN STEPHEN JAY GOULD --
  • 00:24:20.110 --> 00:24:21.110
  • HE WAS ONE OF THE WORLD'S
  • 00:24:21.110 --> 00:24:22.190
  • LEADING EVOLUTIONISTS -- HE
  • 00:24:22.190 --> 00:24:23.190
  • SAID THEY APPEAR ABRUPTLY,
  • 00:24:23.190 --> 00:24:24.200
  • FULLY FORMED, AND THEY DON'T
  • 00:24:24.200 --> 00:24:26.050
  • REALLY SEEM TO BE CHANGING
  • 00:24:26.050 --> 00:24:26.270
  • THROUGHOUT THE HISTORY IN THE
  • 00:24:26.270 --> 00:24:27.180
  • - DAVID: SO, WHEN WE'RE TOLD
  • 00:24:30.070 --> 00:24:30.280
  • THAT WE SEE FOSSIL EXAMPLES OF
  • 00:24:30.280 --> 00:24:32.250
  • APELIKE CREATURES TURNING INTO
  • 00:24:32.250 --> 00:24:34.060
  • MEN, AND THEN THEY'RE LINED UP
  • 00:24:34.060 --> 00:24:36.000
  • IN THIS BEAUTIFUL LITTLE ARRAY
  • 00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:36.210
  • OF, YOU KNOW, CHIMPANZEE,
  • 00:24:36.210 --> 00:24:39.180
  • AND THEN THEY START TO TURN
  • 00:24:39.180 --> 00:24:41.280
  • UPRIGHT, AND THEN THEY
  • 00:24:41.280 --> 00:24:42.290
  • START WALKING ON TWO LEGS,
  • 00:24:42.290 --> 00:24:43.260
  • AND THEN THEY TURN INTO A
  • 00:24:43.260 --> 00:24:45.200
  • WE DON'T ACTUALLY FIND FOSSILS
  • 00:24:48.080 --> 00:24:48.290
  • THAT SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES,
  • 00:24:48.290 --> 00:24:50.070
  • YOU'RE SAYING?
  • 00:24:50.070 --> 00:24:50.290
  • - JAY: RIGHT.
  • 00:24:50.290 --> 00:24:51.140
  • THEY DON'T SPEAK.
  • 00:24:51.140 --> 00:24:52.090
  • THEY DON'T SAY ANYTHING.
  • 00:24:52.090 --> 00:24:54.260
  • EVERY APEMAN WE'VE EVER FOUND,
  • 00:24:54.260 --> 00:24:55.170
  • OR EVER WILL FIND, ONE FINDS
  • 00:24:55.170 --> 00:24:56.280
  • IT FALLS INTO THREE CATEGORIES.
  • 00:24:56.280 --> 00:24:57.200
  • IT WAS EITHER TRULY JUST AN APE
  • 00:24:57.200 --> 00:24:59.150
  • THAT THEY TRIED TO MAKE LOOK
  • 00:24:59.150 --> 00:25:00.120
  • MORE HUMAN, LIKE
  • 00:25:00.120 --> 00:25:01.070
  • AUSTRALOPITHECUS AFARENSIS --
  • 00:25:01.070 --> 00:25:02.190
  • LUCY; OR IT WAS TRULY HUMAN
  • 00:25:02.190 --> 00:25:04.060
  • THAT THEY TRIED TO MAKE LOOK
  • 00:25:04.060 --> 00:25:05.180
  • APELIKE, LIKE THE NEANDERTHAL
  • 00:25:05.180 --> 00:25:07.070
  • MAN; OR IT WAS KIND OF A FRAUD,
  • 00:25:07.070 --> 00:25:08.220
  • LIKE A MIX OF THE TWO, LIKE
  • 00:25:08.220 --> 00:25:10.220
  • PILTDOWN MAN, WHERE THEY HAD
  • 00:25:10.220 --> 00:25:11.180
  • SOME BONES FROM AN APE AND A
  • 00:25:11.180 --> 00:25:13.110
  • BONE FROM A HUMAN THAT THEY PUT
  • 00:25:13.110 --> 00:25:16.050
  • TOGETHER -- PAST EXAMPLES THAT
  • 00:25:16.050 --> 00:25:16.260
  • FALL INTO THOSE CATEGORIES AND
  • 00:25:16.260 --> 00:25:17.170
  • THE FUTURE ONES WILL, ALSO.
  • 00:25:17.170 --> 00:25:18.080
  • - DAVID: VERY, VERY
  • 00:25:18.080 --> 00:25:18.240
  • INTERESTING.
  • 00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:20.060
  • LET'S TACKLE ONE MORE THING, IF
  • 00:25:20.060 --> 00:25:20.280
  • WE COULD, IN JUST ONE MOMENT:
  • 00:25:20.280 --> 00:25:22.130
  • THE ORIGIN OF THE UNIVERSE.
  • 00:25:22.130 --> 00:25:24.210
  • COULD WE LOOK AT THAT FROM TWO
  • 00:25:24.210 --> 00:25:26.090
  • DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES, OR
  • 00:25:26.090 --> 00:25:27.120
  • STARTING POINTS?
  • 00:25:27.120 --> 00:25:29.200
  • - JAY: SURE, I'LL GIVE YOU THE
  • 00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:30.120
  • HIGH-LEVEL VIEW.
  • 00:25:30.120 --> 00:25:30.280
  • THESE STARTING POINTS MAKE
  • 00:25:30.280 --> 00:25:32.240
  • PREDICTIONS.
  • 00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:33.080
  • - DAVID: MM-HMM.
  • 00:25:33.080 --> 00:25:33.240
  • - JAY: ATHEISTIC WORLDVIEW
  • 00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:34.140
  • SAYS THAT EVERYTHING CAME OUT
  • 00:25:34.140 --> 00:25:35.050
  • OF NOWHERE, KIND OF THIS BIG
  • 00:25:35.050 --> 00:25:35.250
  • BANG, NATURALISTIC, NO GOD.
  • 00:25:35.250 --> 00:25:36.150
  • CHRISTIAN WORLDVIEW SAYS THAT,
  • 00:25:36.150 --> 00:25:37.140
  • IN THE BEGINNING, GOD CREATED
  • 00:25:37.140 --> 00:25:38.190
  • THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH.
  • 00:25:38.190 --> 00:25:40.070
  • WHEN WE ACTUALLY TEST THEM
  • 00:25:40.070 --> 00:25:41.220
  • THROUGH SCIENCE, WE FIND THAT
  • 00:25:41.220 --> 00:25:44.030
  • THE ATHEISTIC WORLDVIEW DOESN'T
  • 00:25:44.030 --> 00:25:44.250
  • WORK WELL, AT ALL.
  • 00:25:44.250 --> 00:25:45.160
  • WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE FIRST AND
  • 00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:47.070
  • SECOND LAWS OF THERMODYNAMICS,
  • 00:25:47.070 --> 00:25:48.160
  • THEY MITIGATE AGAINST GETTING
  • 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:51.030
  • SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING AND
  • 00:25:51.030 --> 00:25:51.230
  • GETTING BETTER AND BETTER; IT
  • 00:25:51.230 --> 00:25:53.160
  • GOES DOWNHILL.
  • 00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:54.070
  • AND THEN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE
  • 00:25:54.070 --> 00:25:55.160
  • FINE-TUNING ARGUMENT AND THE
  • 00:25:55.160 --> 00:25:57.040
  • PROBABILITIES OF THESE THINGS
  • 00:25:57.040 --> 00:25:59.110
  • HAPPENING, THE WAY THE BIG BANG
  • 00:25:59.110 --> 00:26:00.200
  • DESCRIBES IT, THE NUMBERS ARE
  • 00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:01.250
  • JUST ASTRONOMICAL, OFF THE
  • 00:26:01.250 --> 00:26:03.130
  • CHART, SAYING THIS CANNOT
  • 00:26:03.130 --> 00:26:04.270
  • HAPPEN NATURALISTICALLY, WHICH
  • 00:26:04.270 --> 00:26:05.180
  • SUPPORTS THE BIBLICAL
  • 00:26:05.180 --> 00:26:06.050
  • WORLDVIEW.
  • 00:26:06.050 --> 00:26:07.020
  • - DAVID: WOW.
  • 00:26:07.020 --> 00:26:08.030
  • BOTTOM LINE IS WE CAN TRUST THE
  • 00:26:08.030 --> 00:26:10.100
  • BIBLE, CAN'T WE?
  • 00:26:10.100 --> 00:26:11.070
  • - JAY: FROM COVER TO COVER.
  • 00:26:11.070 --> 00:26:12.190
  • [DAVID LAUGHS]
  • 00:26:12.190 --> 00:26:13.110
  • - DAVID: I LOVE IT.
  • 00:26:13.110 --> 00:26:14.250
  • AND, AGAIN, THESE ARE SIMPLE
  • 00:26:14.250 --> 00:26:16.110
  • THINGS THAT ANYONE CAN TAKE
  • 00:26:16.110 --> 00:26:17.200
  • HOME, CAN USE WITH THEM ON
  • 00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:18.270
  • THEIR DAILY LIVES TO WITNESS TO
  • 00:26:18.270 --> 00:26:20.020
  • OTHERS.
  • 00:26:20.020 --> 00:26:21.250
  • THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE, JAY,
  • 00:26:21.250 --> 00:26:23.130
  • AND, UM, WE REALLY APPRECIATE
  • 00:26:23.130 --> 00:26:25.040
  • WHAT YOU DO.
  • 00:26:25.040 --> 00:26:26.020
  • - JAY: HONOR TO BE ON THE
  • 00:26:26.020 --> 00:26:26.210
  • PROGRAM.
  • 00:26:26.210 --> 00:26:27.070
  • THANK YOU.
  • 00:26:27.070 --> 00:26:28.030
  • - DAVID: YES, SIR.
  • 00:26:28.030 --> 00:26:28.280
  • YOU KNOW, THE BIBLE REALLY IS
  • 00:26:28.280 --> 00:26:30.280
  • THE ULTIMATE AUTHORITY.
  • 00:26:30.280 --> 00:26:31.180
  • AND ALTHOUGH SCIENTISTS HAVE
  • 00:26:31.180 --> 00:26:33.110
  • ATTEMPTED TO UNDERSTAND THE
  • 00:26:33.110 --> 00:26:35.010
  • ORIGIN OF LIFE FROM THIS
  • 00:26:35.010 --> 00:26:37.100
  • NATURALISTIC PERSPECTIVE, THE
  • 00:26:37.100 --> 00:26:38.170
  • SCRIPTURE MAKES IT CLEAR: IN
  • 00:26:38.170 --> 00:26:40.010
  • THE BEGINNING, GOD REALLY DID
  • 00:26:40.010 --> 00:26:41.050
  • CREATE.
  • 00:26:41.050 --> 00:26:41.240
  • NOW, I HAVE FAITH IN THAT.
  • 00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:43.230
  • EVEN THE INVISIBLE THINGS
  • 00:26:43.230 --> 00:26:44.270
  • AROUND US ARE PROCLAIMING THE
  • 00:26:44.270 --> 00:26:46.100
  • CREATOR'S GLORY.
  • 00:26:46.100 --> 00:26:47.170
  • THAT'S WHAT ROMANS TELLS US.
  • 00:26:47.170 --> 00:26:49.040
  • EVEN THE DNA THAT MAKES UP EACH
  • 00:26:49.040 --> 00:26:51.080
  • AND EVERY ONE OF US IS POINTING
  • 00:26:51.080 --> 00:26:52.230
  • TO OUR DESIGNER!
  • 00:26:52.230 --> 00:26:53.270
  • IT'S LIKE HIS FINGERPRINT.
  • 00:26:53.270 --> 00:26:55.030
  • YOU'RE MADE IN THE IN THE IMAGE
  • 00:26:55.030 --> 00:26:56.170
  • OF GOD, NOT THE RESULT OF
  • 00:26:56.170 --> 00:26:58.190
  • BILLIONS OF MUTATIONS AND
  • 00:26:58.190 --> 00:26:59.080
  • ACCIDENTS.
  • 00:26:59.080 --> 00:27:00.180
  • YOU ARE FEARFULLY AND
  • 00:27:00.180 --> 00:27:01.290
  • WONDERFULLY MADE.
  • 00:27:01.290 --> 00:27:04.230
  • BUT, ON TOP OF THAT, GOD SENT
  • 00:27:04.230 --> 00:27:05.140
  • HIS SON, JESUS CHRIST, TO PAY
  • 00:27:05.140 --> 00:27:06.050
  • FOR YOUR SINS AT CALVARY,
  • 00:27:06.050 --> 00:27:07.120
  • OFFERING US THE GIFT OF ETERNAL
  • 00:27:07.120 --> 00:27:08.120
  • LIFE WITH HIM.
  • 00:27:08.120 --> 00:27:10.040
  • I'M DAVID RIVES, AND, UNTIL OUR
  • 00:27:10.040 --> 00:27:12.270
  • NEXT PROGRAM, KEEP LOOKING UP.
  • 00:27:12.270 --> 00:27:13.200
  • TRULY, THE HEAVENS DECLARE THE
  • 00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:14.110
  • [DRAMATIC CLOSING THEME]
  • 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:25.000