Is Hell Real? | TBN

Is Hell Real?

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December 26, 2017
29:31

Adventures with God

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Is Hell Real?

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  • - Darren Wilson: For 10 years,
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  • I've traveled the world in an
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  • attempt to film God touching
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  • people's lives, and I've
  • 00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:04.070
  • captured some of the most
  • 00:00:04.070 --> 00:00:05.090
  • incredible moments of faith and
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  • miracles ever caught on film.
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  • But I've discovered that faith
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  • is as much about questions, as
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  • it is answers, as much mystery,
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  • as it is certainty.
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  • So I want to take you on a new
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  • adventure.
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  • Together we'll wrestle with big
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  • questions about God, but we'll
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  • also see faith in its purest
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  • form.
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  • It's time to face our questions
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  • head on.
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  • It's time to see proof that God
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  • exists.
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  • It's time for, "Adventures with
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  • - Darren Wilson: Growing up in
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  • the church, the concept of
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  • heaven and hell was always
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  • something I simply took for
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  • granted.
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  • In fact, many of my critics take
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  • issue with my films because, in
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  • their words, I'm not telling
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  • people that if they don't accept
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  • Jesus, they're all goin' to
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  • hell.
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  • That always seemed like an odd
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  • thing to focus on for me,
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  • because it often turns the
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  • gospel into a kind of fire
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  • insurance, as opposed to the
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  • loving relationship with God it
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  • was always intended to be.
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  • But lately, even the concept of
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  • hell has been under attack with
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  • many people arguing that a
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  • loving God would never consign
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  • his children to hell.
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  • Therefore, everyone eventually
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  • will be saved from that fate.
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  • So, I wanted to ask the
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  • question: "Is Hell Real?"
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  • While making "Furious Love," one
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  • of the most respected men I've
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  • ever filmed actually told me
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  • - Darren Wilson: Who's that
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  • handsome fella?
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  • That is my twin brother.
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  • We look very alike.
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  • - Matt: Yes.
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  • - Darren Wilson: He claims that
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  • I'm his evil twin, that I got
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  • all the bad, which I don't think
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  • is necessarily true.
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  • - Philip Mantofa: What?
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  • - Matt: Evil twin?
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  • - Philip: Ugly twin.
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  • - Darren Wilson: This guy's
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  • supposed to be filled with the
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  • love of Jesus, I'm not seein'
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  • it.
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  • That's all I know.
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  • - Philip: No, the love
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  • of Jesus cannot be seen.
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  • It can only be felt.
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  • - Darren Wilson: I'm not
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  • feelin' it.
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  • - Philip: He's not feeling it.
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  • You must be worse than I
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  • thought.
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  • - Matt: You must put up walls
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  • to block things, because he
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  • can't feel Jesus.
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  • - Darren Wilson: I just wanna
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  • see him punch Matt.
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  • - Matt: Why is it so important
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  • to you that someone punches me?
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  • - Darren Wilson: Because he
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  • claims that he's, like, super
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  • tough, and, like, he knows all
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  • these moves.
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  • But I've never seen it.
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  • It's just, like, it's all talk
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  • to me, talk, talk, talk, talk,
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  • talk.
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  • It's just--
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  • - Matt: What, do you want him
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  • to just tap me on the shoulder
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  • and coldcock me when I'm not
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  • payin' attention and just knock
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  • me out--?
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  • - Philip: You know what?
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  • This type cannot be cast out
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  • unless by fasting.
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  • - Philip: the first time I met
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  • Jesus, when I was born again, it
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  • was during an altar call in a
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  • small church.
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  • The first thing he says to me
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  • was, "I am Jesus, and I love
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  • you."
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  • I heard it audibly.
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  • So the first thing he presents
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  • to me, not his power, but his
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  • - Darren Wilson: This is Philip
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  • Mantofa.
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  • If you live in the West, you've
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  • probably never heard of him.
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  • But if you're from Indonesia,
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  • [music]
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  • - Darren Wilson: Philip is the
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  • head pastor of a megachurch of
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  • over 30.000 people in Indonesia.
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  • He's also only 33 years old.
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  • When this guy preaches, people
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  • literally rush the stage to
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  • [music]
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  • - Darren Wilson: Eighty percent
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  • of his church leadership is
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  • under thirty years of age.
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  • Small groups are led by each age
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  • group, including 8-year-olds.
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  • Young people are integral to
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  • this church because, as Philip
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  • - Philip: It's too sad
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  • for us to realizes that many
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  • churches don't believe in young
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  • people, thinking that all they
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  • want in church is, like, just
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  • games and so on.
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  • If we believe like that, how can
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  • we want them to believe
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  • something that's beyond their
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  • youth?
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  • We must first believe that these
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  • young people can respond very
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  • well to God, and we'll be
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  • surprised by the results.
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  • And we see the result today.
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  • A lot of the pastors are
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  • 20-something.
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  • They're leading thousands of
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  • people or hundreds of people
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  • - Darren Wilson: So, in this
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  • episode, we're looking at the
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  • question: "Is Hell Real?"
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  • And, you know, the easy thing to
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  • say is, "Yes," and then, "okay,
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  • next question," right?
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  • But the problem--as you guys
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  • know, it's kinda become a big
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  • deal recently.
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  • I mean, it's becoming more and
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  • more something that people are
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  • using to actually come against
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  • God and against Christianity,
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  • right?
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  • I mean, there's more and more
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  • high-profile books coming out
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  • of, like, kind of coming against
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  • the normal notion that hell is a
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  • real place, you're either gonna
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  • go to heaven or hell.
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  • And it's like, "Well, maybe
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  • there's these other alternative
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  • possibilities here and there."
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  • So, I just wanna kinda jump into
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  • the deep end with you guys
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  • 'cause I know you all have
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  • pretty strong opinions on this
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  • stuff.
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  • But, you know, for a lot of
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  • people, it's becoming
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  • increasingly difficult to accept
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  • the fact that a God would send
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  • someone to be tortured for all
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  • of eternity simply because they
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  • didn't choose to follow him in
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  • life.
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  • And for a lot of people, you
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  • know, I just know, like, maybe
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  • in, like, our worlds, it's not a
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  • big deal.
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  • But for, like, people who aren't
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  • believers, this is a big
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  • hanging-up point, right?
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  • - Daniel Kolenda: Well, I'll
  • 00:05:48.230 --> 00:05:49.200
  • start.
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  • You know, I think this is a hard
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  • conversation to have.
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  • It's a difficult thing to talk
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  • about.
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  • And I think if you are preaching
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  • about hell without a deep place
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  • in your heart that's broken,
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  • then you should talk about
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  • something else.
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  • You know, nobody should preach
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  • hellfire if they don't weep over
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  • souls because it just rings
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  • hollow.
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  • How can you talk about something
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  • so terrible and so permanent
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  • with a sense of triteness and
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  • triviality about it?
  • 00:06:15.160 --> 00:06:16.150
  • So, when we talk about hell, it
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  • is a very real thing.
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  • And the truth is that, yes, it's
  • 00:06:19.280 --> 00:06:21.020
  • real.
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  • But it's not something to be
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  • taken lightly.
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  • You know, if we're gonna take
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  • the Bible literally, and if
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  • we're gonna take the teachings
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  • of Jesus seriously, then we have
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  • to accept the reality of hell.
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  • I'll be real honest.
  • 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:34.060
  • I mean, I don't like preachin'
  • 00:06:34.060 --> 00:06:35.160
  • about hell.
  • 00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:36.170
  • I'm an evangelist.
  • 00:06:36.170 --> 00:06:37.230
  • I preach the gospel all the
  • 00:06:37.230 --> 00:06:38.220
  • time, but if I do talk about
  • 00:06:38.290 --> 00:06:41.290
  • hell, it's not the focus.
  • 00:06:41.290 --> 00:06:43.230
  • Because, you know, the focus of
  • 00:06:43.230 --> 00:06:44.220
  • the gospel is the good news.
  • 00:06:44.220 --> 00:06:45.290
  • But we learn by way of contrast.
  • 00:06:45.290 --> 00:06:48.110
  • It's hard to understand what
  • 00:06:48.110 --> 00:06:49.260
  • salvation is if you don't
  • 00:06:49.260 --> 00:06:50.260
  • understand what you've been
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  • saved from.
  • 00:06:51.290 --> 00:06:53.180
  • And so, the subject stirs up a
  • 00:06:53.180 --> 00:06:56.060
  • lot of emotions in people.
  • 00:06:56.060 --> 00:06:57.170
  • Some people get very defensive
  • 00:06:57.170 --> 00:06:58.140
  • over it.
  • 00:06:58.140 --> 00:06:59.110
  • Some people get very dogmatic
  • 00:06:59.250 --> 00:07:02.270
  • about it.
  • 00:07:02.270 --> 00:07:04.040
  • But I think that here's where it
  • 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:05.250
  • all comes back to you.
  • 00:07:05.250 --> 00:07:06.220
  • I've heard some preachers that
  • 00:07:06.220 --> 00:07:07.200
  • have preached a 45-minute
  • 00:07:07.200 --> 00:07:08.200
  • message describing the intricate
  • 00:07:08.200 --> 00:07:10.190
  • details of what hell is like and
  • 00:07:10.190 --> 00:07:12.070
  • how it feels and what happens
  • 00:07:12.070 --> 00:07:13.070
  • there.
  • 00:07:13.070 --> 00:07:14.070
  • And I look in my Bible, and I
  • 00:07:14.070 --> 00:07:15.130
  • don't find a lot of that.
  • 00:07:15.130 --> 00:07:16.200
  • I think, in many situations, it
  • 00:07:16.200 --> 00:07:18.030
  • sounds more like something from
  • 00:07:18.030 --> 00:07:19.190
  • Dante's "Inferno" than it is
  • 00:07:19.190 --> 00:07:21.150
  • actually from Scripture.
  • 00:07:21.150 --> 00:07:22.270
  • So, what is it about hell that's
  • 00:07:22.270 --> 00:07:24.020
  • horrible?
  • 00:07:24.020 --> 00:07:24.280
  • This is an important question.
  • 00:07:24.280 --> 00:07:26.150
  • Is it the fire?
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  • Is it the torment?
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  • Is it the fact that you're there
  • 00:07:28.290 --> 00:07:30.260
  • with demons?
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  • I think the worst thing about
  • 00:07:32.130 --> 00:07:33.130
  • hell is that it's a place of
  • 00:07:33.130 --> 00:07:35.100
  • separation from God.
  • 00:07:35.100 --> 00:07:37.050
  • And that is what makes anything
  • 00:07:37.090 --> 00:07:40.090
  • hell, is being separated from
  • 00:07:40.090 --> 00:07:41.140
  • God.
  • 00:07:41.140 --> 00:07:42.100
  • So, you may not believe in hell
  • 00:07:42.100 --> 00:07:43.110
  • as a literal place, but if
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  • you're separated from God,
  • 00:07:44.110 --> 00:07:45.150
  • you're living there right now.
  • 00:07:45.150 --> 00:07:47.020
  • This is what a lot of people
  • 00:07:47.020 --> 00:07:47.240
  • don't realize, that they say
  • 00:07:47.240 --> 00:07:48.240
  • there's no hell, and yet they
  • 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:49.230
  • live in hell.
  • 00:07:49.230 --> 00:07:50.270
  • We're surrounded by a world full
  • 00:07:50.270 --> 00:07:52.150
  • of people that are in hell at
  • 00:07:52.150 --> 00:07:53.190
  • the moment.
  • 00:07:53.190 --> 00:07:54.210
  • And what they need is not just
  • 00:07:54.210 --> 00:07:56.020
  • salvation from the hell to come
  • 00:07:56.020 --> 00:07:57.280
  • in eternity.
  • 00:07:57.280 --> 00:07:59.050
  • They need to be saved from the
  • 00:07:59.050 --> 00:08:00.050
  • hell that they live in.
  • 00:08:00.050 --> 00:08:02.020
  • - Bryan Schwartz: First of all,
  • 00:08:02.020 --> 00:08:02.240
  • it's offensive to your intellect
  • 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:05.000
  • and most of what you--I know,
  • 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:06.290
  • before I met Jesus, my greatest
  • 00:08:06.290 --> 00:08:09.050
  • concern wasn't hell.
  • 00:08:09.050 --> 00:08:11.160
  • I knew I was in it.
  • 00:08:11.160 --> 00:08:12.180
  • I honestly did.
  • 00:08:12.180 --> 00:08:13.180
  • I knew if there was one guy God
  • 00:08:13.180 --> 00:08:14.280
  • hated, it was me.
  • 00:08:14.280 --> 00:08:17.060
  • And it was because of my acts.
  • 00:08:17.060 --> 00:08:18.190
  • It was because of my life.
  • 00:08:18.190 --> 00:08:21.030
  • So, even internally, I knew,
  • 00:08:21.030 --> 00:08:23.050
  • I didn't even worry about hell.
  • 00:08:23.050 --> 00:08:25.040
  • That wasn't my greatest concern
  • 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:27.040
  • when I went over to that Bible
  • 00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:27.260
  • study.
  • 00:08:27.260 --> 00:08:28.190
  • I had a wife that hated me, you
  • 00:08:28.190 --> 00:08:30.060
  • know?
  • 00:08:30.060 --> 00:08:31.080
  • That was hell.
  • 00:08:31.080 --> 00:08:32.120
  • It was hell every day waking up
  • 00:08:32.120 --> 00:08:33.140
  • having everything the world said
  • 00:08:33.140 --> 00:08:34.230
  • is awesome, and I'm still
  • 00:08:34.230 --> 00:08:36.090
  • depressed, miserable, lonely,
  • 00:08:36.090 --> 00:08:38.050
  • and terrified about bein' a dad,
  • 00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:42.080
  • knowing I'm an awful--you know
  • 00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:43.190
  • what I mean?
  • 00:08:43.190 --> 00:08:44.140
  • And so, I guess, as a dad, if
  • 00:08:44.220 --> 00:08:47.220
  • somebody does somethin' to my
  • 00:08:47.220 --> 00:08:48.260
  • kids, I want justice.
  • 00:08:48.260 --> 00:08:50.290
  • Like, intuitively, I believe
  • 00:08:50.290 --> 00:08:52.230
  • justice is real.
  • 00:08:52.230 --> 00:08:54.200
  • But when it comes to usually our
  • 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:56.050
  • own stuff, we don't like to.
  • 00:08:56.050 --> 00:08:58.180
  • We love mercy.
  • 00:08:58.180 --> 00:08:59.270
  • We love that it triumphs over
  • 00:08:59.270 --> 00:09:00.250
  • justice.
  • 00:09:00.250 --> 00:09:01.200
  • But it's offensive when you've
  • 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:02.270
  • been living like hell and
  • 00:09:02.270 --> 00:09:04.230
  • somebody starts challenging you
  • 00:09:04.230 --> 00:09:06.050
  • with the reality of where this
  • 00:09:06.050 --> 00:09:07.040
  • leads to.
  • 00:09:07.040 --> 00:09:08.170
  • And it's what you said.
  • 00:09:08.170 --> 00:09:09.250
  • Just like eternity, God honors
  • 00:09:09.250 --> 00:09:12.030
  • choice.
  • 00:09:12.030 --> 00:09:13.100
  • He's so good and loving, he
  • 00:09:13.100 --> 00:09:14.150
  • actually honors our choice.
  • 00:09:14.150 --> 00:09:16.200
  • And hell is a destination by
  • 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:18.180
  • choice.
  • 00:09:18.180 --> 00:09:19.230
  • Heaven is a destination by
  • 00:09:19.230 --> 00:09:20.170
  • - Philip: I got few death
  • 00:09:23.170 --> 00:09:24.110
  • threats when I speak on it, a
  • 00:09:24.110 --> 00:09:27.010
  • few bombs, phone threats.
  • 00:09:27.010 --> 00:09:29.280
  • And many gossips, slanderers,
  • 00:09:30.280 --> 00:09:33.280
  • and they say that I'm, you know,
  • 00:09:33.280 --> 00:09:35.190
  • all this kinda stuff.
  • 00:09:39.030 --> 00:09:40.050
  • Who cares?
  • 00:09:40.050 --> 00:09:41.170
  • 'Cause even if I can save one
  • 00:09:41.170 --> 00:09:42.180
  • soul defending them through the
  • 00:09:42.180 --> 00:09:44.090
  • testimony I have, go there, it's
  • 00:09:44.090 --> 00:09:47.020
  • worth it.
  • 00:09:47.020 --> 00:09:48.130
  • You wanna kill me?
  • 00:09:48.130 --> 00:09:49.110
  • Still worth it.
  • 00:09:49.110 --> 00:09:52.060
  • - Philip: It was on January the
  • 00:09:52.060 --> 00:09:55.010
  • 1st 8 years ago, year 2000.
  • 00:09:57.180 --> 00:10:00.180
  • I went to bed the night before.
  • 00:10:00.180 --> 00:10:03.170
  • My wife was next to me, and
  • 00:10:04.160 --> 00:10:07.160
  • there was one moment where I
  • 00:10:07.160 --> 00:10:08.070
  • woke up and with all
  • 00:10:08.070 --> 00:10:10.150
  • consciousness, all my senses
  • 00:10:10.150 --> 00:10:11.200
  • intact, my brain, everything,
  • 00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:13.280
  • was just fully conscious.
  • 00:10:13.280 --> 00:10:16.000
  • But I was surprised because I
  • 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:17.210
  • wasn't where I was supposed to
  • 00:10:18.050 --> 00:10:21.050
  • be, in my room.
  • 00:10:21.050 --> 00:10:23.100
  • I was in a weird place I
  • 00:10:23.280 --> 00:10:26.280
  • couldn't explain.
  • 00:10:26.280 --> 00:10:27.290
  • There's no place like that.
  • 00:10:27.290 --> 00:10:30.070
  • And I was puzzling, "Where am I?
  • 00:10:31.270 --> 00:10:34.270
  • What's this?"
  • 00:10:34.270 --> 00:10:35.290
  • I mean, I'm conscious.
  • 00:10:35.290 --> 00:10:36.230
  • It's not a dream, not a vision,
  • 00:10:36.230 --> 00:10:38.120
  • but it's me.
  • 00:10:38.120 --> 00:10:40.070
  • Like, physically too, it's me.
  • 00:10:40.070 --> 00:10:42.060
  • I just cannot see myself,
  • 00:10:42.060 --> 00:10:43.060
  • wearing what clothes, and so on.
  • 00:10:43.060 --> 00:10:44.090
  • It's, all the details is lost
  • 00:10:44.090 --> 00:10:46.080
  • because of the trauma, because
  • 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:48.120
  • of the shock.
  • 00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:49.210
  • And I heard a voice behind me,
  • 00:10:49.210 --> 00:10:51.130
  • and I couldn't turn my neck, you
  • 00:10:51.130 --> 00:10:52.110
  • know, to the right or to the
  • 00:10:52.110 --> 00:10:53.040
  • left.
  • 00:10:53.040 --> 00:10:53.260
  • Just a voice behind me, and
  • 00:10:53.260 --> 00:10:54.200
  • because I fellowshipped with
  • 00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:55.230
  • that voice every day reading the
  • 00:10:55.230 --> 00:10:57.030
  • Bible every day, I know
  • 00:10:57.030 --> 00:10:58.040
  • who--that I know that I know
  • 00:10:58.040 --> 00:10:59.080
  • that, that voice is my Master
  • 00:10:59.080 --> 00:11:01.110
  • Jesus Christ, saying to me, "You
  • 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:05.000
  • are here by my will.
  • 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:07.160
  • Go ahead and go forward.
  • 00:11:07.160 --> 00:11:09.010
  • Walk on, I'll lead you.
  • 00:11:09.010 --> 00:11:10.140
  • I'll show you something to tell
  • 00:11:10.140 --> 00:11:13.040
  • other people, and just walk on."
  • 00:11:13.040 --> 00:11:15.290
  • And a very, very long path, a
  • 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:19.240
  • really long path, and it's very
  • 00:11:19.240 --> 00:11:22.050
  • stuffy, no air, and no wind
  • 00:11:22.050 --> 00:11:24.230
  • blowing, and just very heavy.
  • 00:11:25.160 --> 00:11:28.160
  • I think the stink itself could
  • 00:11:28.160 --> 00:11:30.120
  • kill ya, literally, in this
  • 00:11:30.120 --> 00:11:32.040
  • life.
  • 00:11:32.040 --> 00:11:33.160
  • But I know that I was in a good
  • 00:11:33.160 --> 00:11:35.100
  • hand.
  • 00:11:35.100 --> 00:11:36.140
  • And I walk on, said, "What is it
  • 00:11:36.140 --> 00:11:38.010
  • that you are trying to show me?
  • 00:11:38.010 --> 00:11:39.200
  • Get me out of here," you know,
  • 00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:40.270
  • "get me out of here."
  • 00:11:40.270 --> 00:11:41.250
  • You feel everything.
  • 00:11:41.250 --> 00:11:43.050
  • Like, you feel your skin.
  • 00:11:43.050 --> 00:11:44.050
  • You feel everything.
  • 00:11:44.170 --> 00:11:47.170
  • And finally, I reach a place.
  • 00:11:47.280 --> 00:11:50.280
  • He led me to a place.
  • 00:11:50.280 --> 00:11:52.210
  • It's a huge, wide, gate.
  • 00:11:53.020 --> 00:11:56.020
  • It's not like a gate at all,
  • 00:11:56.020 --> 00:11:57.190
  • nothing like it.
  • 00:11:57.190 --> 00:11:59.210
  • Whatever I say here is just far
  • 00:12:01.060 --> 00:12:04.060
  • to be likened to anything that
  • 00:12:04.060 --> 00:12:06.090
  • we have seen in this life on
  • 00:12:06.090 --> 00:12:07.130
  • earth.
  • 00:12:07.130 --> 00:12:09.070
  • And that gate is so wide, and
  • 00:12:09.070 --> 00:12:10.290
  • then there's the supernatural
  • 00:12:10.290 --> 00:12:12.230
  • writings on it, above it.
  • 00:12:12.230 --> 00:12:15.020
  • It's amazing even to be able to
  • 00:12:15.020 --> 00:12:17.010
  • read it because it's so far,
  • 00:12:17.010 --> 00:12:19.020
  • it's so wide and tall, and it's
  • 00:12:19.020 --> 00:12:21.260
  • a door.
  • 00:12:21.260 --> 00:12:23.230
  • And the writing, and God touched
  • 00:12:23.230 --> 00:12:26.210
  • my eyes to be able to interpret
  • 00:12:26.210 --> 00:12:28.250
  • what is written.
  • 00:12:28.250 --> 00:12:29.170
  • It's something like, "The valley
  • 00:12:29.170 --> 00:12:30.230
  • of death and torture," something
  • 00:12:30.230 --> 00:12:32.080
  • like that.
  • 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:33.230
  • And the voice behind me is
  • 00:12:33.230 --> 00:12:35.000
  • saying, "Open the door."
  • 00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:36.120
  • I say, "I'm afraid to even open
  • 00:12:36.120 --> 00:12:37.190
  • the door.
  • 00:12:37.190 --> 00:12:38.110
  • It's so rusty, it could hurt my
  • 00:12:38.110 --> 00:12:39.190
  • hand."
  • 00:12:39.190 --> 00:12:40.110
  • Because it's not a spiritual, I
  • 00:12:40.110 --> 00:12:41.150
  • mean, it's not a spiritual
  • 00:12:41.150 --> 00:12:42.150
  • experience.
  • 00:12:42.150 --> 00:12:43.080
  • It's like almost physical, you
  • 00:12:43.080 --> 00:12:44.010
  • know?
  • 00:12:44.010 --> 00:12:44.210
  • And not almost physical.
  • 00:12:44.210 --> 00:12:45.100
  • It's more than physical.
  • 00:12:45.100 --> 00:12:46.240
  • I'm not gonna touch doors like
  • 00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:47.290
  • that.
  • 00:12:47.290 --> 00:12:48.240
  • It's going to hurt my hands.
  • 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:50.020
  • But before I touch it, the door
  • 00:12:50.020 --> 00:12:51.140
  • opened by itself.
  • 00:12:51.140 --> 00:12:53.220
  • And as it opens, it breaks my
  • 00:12:53.220 --> 00:12:55.140
  • heart so much.
  • 00:12:59.250 --> 00:13:02.270
  • I could hear all those--I could
  • 00:13:04.280 --> 00:13:07.280
  • hear people, voices of human
  • 00:13:10.090 --> 00:13:13.090
  • being crying for help, and
  • 00:13:13.110 --> 00:13:16.110
  • cursing, everything, you know?
  • 00:13:16.110 --> 00:13:17.160
  • And it's not clear anymore.
  • 00:13:17.160 --> 00:13:19.180
  • So many people and some gnashing
  • 00:13:19.180 --> 00:13:21.040
  • of teeth, and the heat just--the
  • 00:13:22.040 --> 00:13:25.040
  • darkness just came out.
  • 00:13:25.040 --> 00:13:26.100
  • It's not like darkness like
  • 00:13:26.100 --> 00:13:27.280
  • there's no light and this is
  • 00:13:27.280 --> 00:13:28.240
  • darkness.
  • 00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:29.170
  • This darkness is a force and
  • 00:13:29.170 --> 00:13:30.230
  • it's a reality.
  • 00:13:30.230 --> 00:13:33.050
  • It's just the feeling of wrath
  • 00:13:33.050 --> 00:13:35.100
  • of God in the air.
  • 00:13:35.100 --> 00:13:37.090
  • And as I opened the door and I
  • 00:13:38.060 --> 00:13:41.060
  • could see I was by the gate, and
  • 00:13:41.060 --> 00:13:43.020
  • I knew exactly where I was.
  • 00:13:43.020 --> 00:13:44.140
  • I was where the dead are kept
  • 00:13:44.140 --> 00:13:47.070
  • until the day of the judgment of
  • 00:13:47.070 --> 00:13:48.250
  • Jesus Christ, the white throne
  • 00:13:48.250 --> 00:13:50.100
  • judgment that is written in the
  • 00:13:50.100 --> 00:13:51.130
  • book of Revelation.
  • 00:13:51.130 --> 00:13:53.230
  • And before I could see anything
  • 00:13:53.230 --> 00:13:55.130
  • else, I could see far, far away,
  • 00:13:57.130 --> 00:14:00.150
  • far, far away.
  • 00:14:00.150 --> 00:14:01.070
  • It's too far for a man to reach
  • 00:14:01.070 --> 00:14:02.140
  • with his eyes, but because of
  • 00:14:02.150 --> 00:14:05.150
  • Jesus and his power, I could see
  • 00:14:07.060 --> 00:14:10.060
  • very far away, the endless,
  • 00:14:10.060 --> 00:14:12.190
  • endless, at that direction, in
  • 00:14:12.190 --> 00:14:14.200
  • front of me is really endless.
  • 00:14:14.200 --> 00:14:16.250
  • And I could smoke billowing up
  • 00:14:16.250 --> 00:14:19.220
  • and it was, like, there is a
  • 00:14:19.220 --> 00:14:21.090
  • glow of fire.
  • 00:14:21.090 --> 00:14:22.160
  • Though I could not see the
  • 00:14:22.160 --> 00:14:23.190
  • end of the fire.
  • 00:14:23.190 --> 00:14:25.090
  • The valley must be very deep,
  • 00:14:25.090 --> 00:14:26.210
  • you know?
  • 00:14:26.210 --> 00:14:27.170
  • And the lake must be, it must be
  • 00:14:27.170 --> 00:14:29.020
  • a lake of fire or something, and
  • 00:14:29.020 --> 00:14:30.130
  • it's so huge, I could only see
  • 00:14:31.180 --> 00:14:34.180
  • the smoke billowing up.
  • 00:14:34.180 --> 00:14:36.150
  • And I begin to see a lot of
  • 00:14:36.150 --> 00:14:39.140
  • tortures happen.
  • 00:14:39.140 --> 00:14:40.230
  • And I reminded what is written
  • 00:14:40.230 --> 00:14:43.230
  • in the book of Revelation, that
  • 00:14:43.230 --> 00:14:45.090
  • no one has been thrown into that
  • 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:48.200
  • lake of fire, not the devil, not
  • 00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:50.230
  • human beings who died and
  • 00:14:50.230 --> 00:14:52.190
  • perished in their sin, no one
  • 00:14:52.190 --> 00:14:54.170
  • until the throne of--under the
  • 00:14:54.170 --> 00:14:56.190
  • white throne judgment of Jesus
  • 00:14:56.190 --> 00:14:57.170
  • Christ.
  • 00:14:57.170 --> 00:14:58.120
  • So, I know where I'm standing at
  • 00:14:58.120 --> 00:15:00.080
  • is by the gate of death, where I
  • 00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:02.210
  • see so millions, and only God
  • 00:15:02.210 --> 00:15:04.290
  • knows the numbers.
  • 00:15:04.290 --> 00:15:06.000
  • It's a lot, trust me, a lot more
  • 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:07.170
  • than people who go to church,
  • 00:15:07.170 --> 00:15:09.120
  • for sure.
  • 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:10.290
  • And I saw people being tortured
  • 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:14.080
  • by the free demon spirits that
  • 00:15:14.110 --> 00:15:17.110
  • are, although condemned, but
  • 00:15:17.110 --> 00:15:19.030
  • they are not yet judged and not
  • 00:15:19.030 --> 00:15:20.140
  • yet bound, not yet thrown into
  • 00:15:21.150 --> 00:15:24.150
  • the lake of fire.
  • 00:15:24.150 --> 00:15:25.100
  • And these human beings is dead
  • 00:15:26.160 --> 00:15:29.160
  • people who is, trust me, they're
  • 00:15:29.210 --> 00:15:32.210
  • not dead at all.
  • 00:15:32.210 --> 00:15:34.070
  • They're alive and more alive
  • 00:15:34.070 --> 00:15:35.120
  • than they thought, and we think,
  • 00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:38.070
  • and they are tortured day and
  • 00:15:38.070 --> 00:15:40.050
  • night by the spirits that served
  • 00:15:40.150 --> 00:15:43.150
  • them in their lives with their
  • 00:15:43.150 --> 00:15:45.200
  • sins.
  • 00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:47.020
  • And this is pay-up time.
  • 00:15:47.020 --> 00:15:48.230
  • This is not judgment time.
  • 00:15:48.230 --> 00:15:49.220
  • This is just pay-up time, you
  • 00:15:49.220 --> 00:15:50.170
  • know?
  • 00:15:50.170 --> 00:15:51.180
  • These spirits own them forever,
  • 00:15:51.180 --> 00:15:53.230
  • and these spirits, these devils,
  • 00:15:53.230 --> 00:15:55.270
  • demon spirits, and this devil,
  • 00:15:55.270 --> 00:15:57.250
  • and all these cursed dead people
  • 00:15:58.160 --> 00:16:01.180
  • who perished in their sins is
  • 00:16:01.180 --> 00:16:02.170
  • gonna be thrown into the lake of
  • 00:16:02.170 --> 00:16:03.200
  • fire.
  • 00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:04.240
  • I could see all kinds of torture
  • 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:06.020
  • there.
  • 00:16:06.020 --> 00:16:06.290
  • People are tortured according to
  • 00:16:06.290 --> 00:16:08.210
  • their sins on earth.
  • 00:16:08.210 --> 00:16:10.150
  • Not because it's God's judgment.
  • 00:16:10.150 --> 00:16:11.230
  • God's judgment is fair, but this
  • 00:16:11.230 --> 00:16:13.070
  • is like a playground, playtime
  • 00:16:13.070 --> 00:16:15.160
  • for the devil.
  • 00:16:15.160 --> 00:16:16.250
  • You know, Jesus says, "It's
  • 00:16:16.250 --> 00:16:18.000
  • better for you to go to heaven
  • 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:19.210
  • with one eye.
  • 00:16:19.210 --> 00:16:20.180
  • If your eye causes you to sin,
  • 00:16:20.180 --> 00:16:21.190
  • gouge it out."
  • 00:16:21.190 --> 00:16:22.170
  • Because it's better for you to
  • 00:16:22.170 --> 00:16:23.140
  • be one-eyed into heaven than two
  • 00:16:23.140 --> 00:16:24.190
  • eyes in heaven.
  • 00:16:24.190 --> 00:16:25.200
  • You know what happened?
  • 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:26.180
  • You see with your eyes, and your
  • 00:16:26.180 --> 00:16:27.180
  • eyes are the play toy in that
  • 00:16:28.290 --> 00:16:31.290
  • torture chamber.
  • 00:16:31.290 --> 00:16:34.130
  • Not even a chamber, it's too
  • 00:16:34.130 --> 00:16:35.060
  • small, a chamber is too small.
  • 00:16:35.060 --> 00:16:37.170
  • "And if your hands causes you to
  • 00:16:37.170 --> 00:16:39.030
  • sin, one of your hands causes
  • 00:16:39.030 --> 00:16:40.080
  • you to sin, just cut it off."
  • 00:16:41.050 --> 00:16:44.050
  • It's greater for you to be
  • 00:16:44.050 --> 00:16:44.280
  • one-handed into heaven than
  • 00:16:44.280 --> 00:16:46.290
  • two-handed.
  • 00:16:46.290 --> 00:16:47.240
  • I saw all kinds of torture and
  • 00:16:48.090 --> 00:16:51.090
  • people--
  • 00:16:52.110 --> 00:16:55.110
  • Oh, God.
  • 00:16:57.260 --> 00:17:00.280
  • Oh, have mercy.
  • 00:17:00.280 --> 00:17:03.100
  • All I did was I just said, "Have
  • 00:17:03.100 --> 00:17:04.250
  • mercy, Lord, have mercy."
  • 00:17:04.250 --> 00:17:06.200
  • I almost died witnessing all
  • 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:07.230
  • that, and I didn't die, because
  • 00:17:07.230 --> 00:17:10.140
  • of God's strength.
  • 00:17:10.140 --> 00:17:11.180
  • And if it were not God's
  • 00:17:11.260 --> 00:17:14.260
  • strength, I would have died in
  • 00:17:14.260 --> 00:17:16.070
  • my sleep and people would have
  • 00:17:16.070 --> 00:17:17.060
  • thought I got a heart attack
  • 00:17:17.060 --> 00:17:18.010
  • or something.
  • 00:17:18.010 --> 00:17:20.070
  • Yeah, and after that experience,
  • 00:17:20.130 --> 00:17:23.130
  • I woke up, and in the morning, I
  • 00:17:23.130 --> 00:17:26.000
  • got pain all over my body.
  • 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:27.270
  • I threw up almost every day just
  • 00:17:27.270 --> 00:17:30.030
  • thinking about it.
  • 00:17:30.030 --> 00:17:31.000
  • It's so traumatic, especially
  • 00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:32.200
  • with people asks you to tell a
  • 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:35.170
  • story.
  • 00:17:35.170 --> 00:17:36.100
  • That would be, like, killing you
  • 00:17:36.100 --> 00:17:38.000
  • again and again and again.
  • 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:40.170
  • And 9 months after that, I did
  • 00:17:40.190 --> 00:17:43.190
  • the first crusade.
  • 00:17:43.190 --> 00:17:45.240
  • It was after a lot of bargaining
  • 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:47.070
  • with God.
  • 00:17:47.070 --> 00:17:48.160
  • God told me, Holy Spirit urged
  • 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:50.140
  • me to do a crusade and share a
  • 00:17:52.070 --> 00:17:55.070
  • testimony.
  • 00:17:55.070 --> 00:17:55.290
  • I said, "I don't want to.
  • 00:17:55.290 --> 00:17:57.190
  • I don't think I could, you know?
  • 00:17:57.190 --> 00:17:59.140
  • Secondly, I don't want people to
  • 00:17:59.140 --> 00:18:00.130
  • think I'm crazy."
  • 00:18:00.130 --> 00:18:02.100
  • I've been called, "False
  • 00:18:02.100 --> 00:18:03.010
  • prophet."
  • 00:18:03.010 --> 00:18:04.050
  • I've been called, "Theologically
  • 00:18:04.050 --> 00:18:05.130
  • unhealthy preacher."
  • 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:09.000
  • Whatever, "Lord, if you love me,
  • 00:18:09.100 --> 00:18:12.100
  • don't tell me to do this.
  • 00:18:12.100 --> 00:18:13.170
  • It's bad enough, you know, you
  • 00:18:13.170 --> 00:18:16.130
  • bring me that.
  • 00:18:16.130 --> 00:18:17.170
  • It's bad enough.
  • 00:18:17.170 --> 00:18:18.070
  • Why don't you bring, like, this
  • 00:18:18.070 --> 00:18:19.220
  • guy or that guy?
  • 00:18:19.220 --> 00:18:20.220
  • Why do you bring me?"
  • 00:18:20.220 --> 00:18:22.130
  • And I obeyed anyway.
  • 00:18:22.130 --> 00:18:25.110
  • And in that crusade, I preach
  • 00:18:25.110 --> 00:18:26.160
  • very simply, and a lot of people
  • 00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:30.200
  • came and ran to the front to
  • 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:32.280
  • receive Jesus.
  • 00:18:32.280 --> 00:18:34.150
  • I didn't do that altar call in
  • 00:18:34.150 --> 00:18:35.220
  • this way: "Who wants to receive
  • 00:18:35.220 --> 00:18:37.260
  • Jesus?
  • 00:18:37.260 --> 00:18:38.190
  • All eyes closed, all heads
  • 00:18:38.190 --> 00:18:39.230
  • bowed," you know?
  • 00:18:39.230 --> 00:18:41.070
  • Nothing wrong with that style,
  • 00:18:41.070 --> 00:18:42.050
  • but I don't do that.
  • 00:18:42.050 --> 00:18:43.240
  • Because of the emergency.
  • 00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:45.170
  • You know why I'm preaching the
  • 00:18:45.170 --> 00:18:46.120
  • gospel?
  • 00:18:46.120 --> 00:18:47.040
  • It's emergency, it's urgency.
  • 00:18:47.040 --> 00:18:48.100
  • It's not a joke.
  • 00:18:49.130 --> 00:18:52.130
  • It's not manipulation.
  • 00:18:52.130 --> 00:18:53.160
  • It's not a business, come on.
  • 00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:54.270
  • It's not all that.
  • 00:18:54.270 --> 00:18:56.070
  • And I don't care anymore.
  • 00:18:56.070 --> 00:18:59.060
  • I obey the Lord, even if I have
  • 00:18:59.060 --> 00:18:59.290
  • to die and people will kill me.
  • 00:18:59.290 --> 00:19:02.150
  • Because those people didn't like
  • 00:19:02.150 --> 00:19:03.050
  • me, especially here in
  • 00:19:03.050 --> 00:19:04.080
  • Indonesia.
  • 00:19:04.080 --> 00:19:05.100
  • If I die, it's a gaining.
  • 00:19:05.100 --> 00:19:07.100
  • But if I can save one person
  • 00:19:07.100 --> 00:19:08.130
  • from going there, not me, but
  • 00:19:08.130 --> 00:19:10.200
  • Christ can save through my
  • 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:12.020
  • testimony, through the Word of
  • 00:19:12.020 --> 00:19:13.170
  • - Will Hart: Remember when we
  • 00:19:16.190 --> 00:19:17.090
  • were in, gosh, where was it,
  • 00:19:17.090 --> 00:19:18.290
  • Utah?
  • 00:19:18.290 --> 00:19:19.190
  • - Darren Wilson: Salt Lake
  • 00:19:19.190 --> 00:19:20.070
  • City, yeah.
  • 00:19:20.070 --> 00:19:20.200
  • - Will: Salt Lake City, Utah,
  • 00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:21.110
  • it was in, what movie was it?
  • 00:19:21.110 --> 00:19:22.220
  • It was "Holy Ghost."
  • 00:19:22.220 --> 00:19:23.190
  • We're out there and the guy's
  • 00:19:23.190 --> 00:19:24.240
  • yelling at the Mormons, like,
  • 00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:26.150
  • "You're gonna die.
  • 00:19:26.150 --> 00:19:27.060
  • You're gonna burn in hell.
  • 00:19:27.060 --> 00:19:27.240
  • You're gonna die.
  • 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:28.110
  • You're gonna burn in hell."
  • 00:19:28.110 --> 00:19:29.160
  • And, like, we saw people get
  • 00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:31.290
  • saved, transformed, in 2 hours,
  • 00:19:31.290 --> 00:19:34.070
  • right, that we were ministering
  • 00:19:34.070 --> 00:19:35.280
  • there, 3 hours.
  • 00:19:35.280 --> 00:19:38.060
  • And we asked them a question,
  • 00:19:38.060 --> 00:19:39.050
  • "How many people have you seen
  • 00:19:39.050 --> 00:19:40.000
  • saved with his message of hell?"
  • 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:42.080
  • And he said, "Like, one--"
  • 00:19:42.080 --> 00:19:44.050
  • Was it 1 or 2 in 30 years?
  • 00:19:44.050 --> 00:19:45.210
  • - Darren Wilson: No, it was 3,
  • 00:19:45.210 --> 00:19:46.110
  • 3 in 30 years.
  • 00:19:46.110 --> 00:19:47.030
  • - Will: In 30 years.
  • 00:19:47.030 --> 00:19:48.010
  • Like, "And you're doin' this?"
  • 00:19:48.010 --> 00:19:49.060
  • And his wife was crippled, and,
  • 00:19:49.060 --> 00:19:50.180
  • like, just angry.
  • 00:19:50.180 --> 00:19:52.130
  • That message does not produce
  • 00:19:52.130 --> 00:19:54.120
  • fruit.
  • 00:19:54.120 --> 00:19:55.110
  • It's like the ultimate trump
  • 00:19:55.110 --> 00:19:56.110
  • card.
  • 00:19:56.110 --> 00:19:56.280
  • It's bein' like, "I'm right,
  • 00:19:56.280 --> 00:19:57.210
  • you're wrong.
  • 00:19:57.210 --> 00:19:58.160
  • And if you're wrong, and if,
  • 00:19:58.160 --> 00:19:59.210
  • like, and if you don't know that
  • 00:19:59.210 --> 00:20:00.210
  • you're right or wrong, like,
  • 00:20:00.210 --> 00:20:01.190
  • you're gonna go to hell."
  • 00:20:01.190 --> 00:20:02.210
  • It's, like, it just takes, it
  • 00:20:02.210 --> 00:20:03.240
  • doesn't allow people to grow in
  • 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:05.040
  • grace.
  • 00:20:05.040 --> 00:20:06.010
  • It doesn't allow that
  • 00:20:06.010 --> 00:20:06.280
  • understanding and that dialogue.
  • 00:20:06.280 --> 00:20:08.040
  • It's really unhealthy.
  • 00:20:08.040 --> 00:20:09.190
  • However, I am a firm, firm, firm
  • 00:20:09.190 --> 00:20:12.020
  • believer in hell.
  • 00:20:12.020 --> 00:20:13.060
  • I got saved from it.
  • 00:20:13.060 --> 00:20:15.020
  • I was living in it, like what
  • 00:20:15.020 --> 00:20:16.000
  • you said.
  • 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:16.280
  • It was the absence of God in my
  • 00:20:16.280 --> 00:20:19.240
  • life, but his grace and his
  • 00:20:19.240 --> 00:20:21.250
  • ability to pull us out of that
  • 00:20:21.250 --> 00:20:23.150
  • is what transformed me.
  • 00:20:23.150 --> 00:20:24.170
  • It wasn't, "Oh, now I'm not
  • 00:20:24.170 --> 00:20:25.160
  • going to hell, so now I'm
  • 00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:26.080
  • transformed."
  • 00:20:26.080 --> 00:20:27.130
  • It was radical love.
  • 00:20:27.130 --> 00:20:29.000
  • - Darren Davis: I think, as the
  • 00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:32.000
  • church is maturing, in a healthy
  • 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:33.260
  • way, not in a bad way, but in a
  • 00:20:33.260 --> 00:20:34.260
  • very healthy way, I think we're
  • 00:20:34.260 --> 00:20:36.120
  • coming to understand that, hey,
  • 00:20:36.120 --> 00:20:38.190
  • what is the gospel all about?
  • 00:20:38.190 --> 00:20:41.020
  • And is it about even a
  • 00:20:41.020 --> 00:20:42.170
  • futuristic heaven solely?
  • 00:20:42.220 --> 00:20:45.220
  • Is it, hey, come to know Jesus
  • 00:20:45.220 --> 00:20:48.060
  • so that you'll one day be able
  • 00:20:48.060 --> 00:20:50.190
  • to experience a futuristic
  • 00:20:50.190 --> 00:20:51.280
  • heaven?
  • 00:20:51.280 --> 00:20:53.060
  • Is it the other side?
  • 00:20:53.060 --> 00:20:54.160
  • Hey, if you don't, there's gonna
  • 00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:56.100
  • be punishment of a futuristic
  • 00:20:56.100 --> 00:20:57.200
  • hell.
  • 00:20:57.200 --> 00:20:59.070
  • Or is it about a now
  • 00:20:59.070 --> 00:21:01.020
  • relationship with God, you know,
  • 00:21:01.020 --> 00:21:03.110
  • as a son and daughter that's
  • 00:21:03.110 --> 00:21:05.010
  • been created in his image where
  • 00:21:05.020 --> 00:21:08.020
  • we can return to that original
  • 00:21:08.020 --> 00:21:09.110
  • intent that he's always had for
  • 00:21:09.110 --> 00:21:10.130
  • us, to know us and to walk with
  • 00:21:10.130 --> 00:21:11.160
  • us in the garden?
  • 00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:12.280
  • - Daniel: You know, I had a
  • 00:21:12.280 --> 00:21:13.170
  • young guy that I was witnessing
  • 00:21:13.170 --> 00:21:14.120
  • to.
  • 00:21:14.120 --> 00:21:14.270
  • I think he was 16.
  • 00:21:14.270 --> 00:21:16.010
  • And he threw this question at
  • 00:21:16.010 --> 00:21:18.000
  • me.
  • 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:18.150
  • He said, "I have one argument
  • 00:21:18.150 --> 00:21:21.020
  • that will topple Christianity."
  • 00:21:21.020 --> 00:21:23.010
  • And I thought, "Well, this has
  • 00:21:23.010 --> 00:21:24.050
  • been tried for thousands of
  • 00:21:24.050 --> 00:21:25.020
  • years, let's see," you know?
  • 00:21:25.020 --> 00:21:26.140
  • So he said, "Okay, there's two
  • 00:21:26.140 --> 00:21:28.000
  • beliefs that Christians have
  • 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:29.040
  • that are incompatible.
  • 00:21:29.040 --> 00:21:30.090
  • The number-one belief is that
  • 00:21:30.090 --> 00:21:31.060
  • God is good, and the second
  • 00:21:31.060 --> 00:21:32.160
  • belief is that God created
  • 00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:33.200
  • everything.
  • 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:34.230
  • But if God created everything,
  • 00:21:34.230 --> 00:21:36.030
  • then God created evil.
  • 00:21:36.030 --> 00:21:37.150
  • If God created evil, then God
  • 00:21:37.150 --> 00:21:38.180
  • can't be good."
  • 00:21:38.180 --> 00:21:40.040
  • And I said, "Okay, but you've
  • 00:21:40.040 --> 00:21:42.040
  • made one error in your logic.
  • 00:21:42.070 --> 00:21:45.070
  • The Bible doesn't say that God
  • 00:21:45.070 --> 00:21:46.060
  • created everything."
  • 00:21:46.060 --> 00:21:47.200
  • And he looked at me like, "What
  • 00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:48.290
  • do you mean?"
  • 00:21:48.290 --> 00:21:49.260
  • I said, "Like, for example, God
  • 00:21:49.260 --> 00:21:50.260
  • didn't create himself, right?
  • 00:21:50.260 --> 00:21:53.110
  • God is uncreated.
  • 00:21:53.110 --> 00:21:54.250
  • And so, if God didn't create
  • 00:21:54.250 --> 00:21:56.060
  • himself, that means every part
  • 00:21:56.060 --> 00:21:57.150
  • of who God is, is also
  • 00:21:57.150 --> 00:21:58.270
  • uncreated.
  • 00:21:58.270 --> 00:21:59.250
  • Love is uncreated.
  • 00:21:59.250 --> 00:22:01.050
  • Joy is uncreated.
  • 00:22:01.050 --> 00:22:02.180
  • Peace is uncreated.
  • 00:22:02.180 --> 00:22:03.190
  • These are all just simply
  • 00:22:03.190 --> 00:22:04.220
  • extensions of who God is."
  • 00:22:04.220 --> 00:22:07.130
  • And I said, "By that same token,
  • 00:22:07.130 --> 00:22:09.090
  • God did not create evil.
  • 00:22:09.090 --> 00:22:11.010
  • Evil is simply the absence of
  • 00:22:11.010 --> 00:22:13.020
  • the goodness of God."
  • 00:22:13.020 --> 00:22:14.060
  • So, it's just like you don't
  • 00:22:14.060 --> 00:22:15.180
  • have to create darkness.
  • 00:22:15.180 --> 00:22:16.250
  • You switch off the light, dark
  • 00:22:16.250 --> 00:22:17.190
  • is the automatic outcome of
  • 00:22:17.190 --> 00:22:19.230
  • that.
  • 00:22:19.230 --> 00:22:20.130
  • You don't have to create cold.
  • 00:22:20.130 --> 00:22:21.210
  • You just shot off the source of
  • 00:22:21.210 --> 00:22:22.180
  • heat, and cold is the automatic
  • 00:22:22.180 --> 00:22:24.120
  • outcome.
  • 00:22:24.120 --> 00:22:25.090
  • Any time there is separation
  • 00:22:25.090 --> 00:22:26.080
  • from God, the outcome is gonna
  • 00:22:26.080 --> 00:22:28.190
  • be hell, essentially.
  • 00:22:28.190 --> 00:22:30.100
  • And I don't know all the answers
  • 00:22:30.100 --> 00:22:31.280
  • to all the questions that I have
  • 00:22:31.280 --> 00:22:32.270
  • a Scripture and verse for.
  • 00:22:32.270 --> 00:22:34.090
  • And if anybody tells you they
  • 00:22:34.090 --> 00:22:35.070
  • do, they are lying.
  • 00:22:35.070 --> 00:22:37.180
  • But here's one thing I'm
  • 00:22:37.180 --> 00:22:39.140
  • absolutely sure of, I am sure
  • 00:22:39.140 --> 00:22:41.100
  • that God is much better and much
  • 00:22:41.100 --> 00:22:43.250
  • more just and much more holy
  • 00:22:43.250 --> 00:22:46.020
  • than I've ever dreamt.
  • 00:22:46.020 --> 00:22:47.260
  • And I believe with all of my
  • 00:22:47.260 --> 00:22:49.040
  • heart that, in the end, we will
  • 00:22:49.040 --> 00:22:50.150
  • look back and we will be amazed
  • 00:22:50.150 --> 00:22:52.110
  • at his wisdom, and we'll be
  • 00:22:52.110 --> 00:22:53.270
  • amazed at his goodness and his
  • 00:22:53.270 --> 00:22:55.290
  • kindness to all of his creation.
  • 00:22:55.290 --> 00:22:58.180
  • And whatever that looks like one
  • 00:22:58.180 --> 00:23:00.100
  • day, we'll say, "Blessed be the
  • 00:23:00.100 --> 00:23:01.260
  • - Darren Wilson: And the
  • 00:23:05.170 --> 00:23:06.070
  • examples of power kept coming.
  • 00:23:06.070 --> 00:23:08.190
  • While we were in Siberia, for
  • 00:23:08.190 --> 00:23:10.020
  • instance, we met Oksana, who not
  • 00:23:10.020 --> 00:23:12.140
  • long ago was a raging alcoholic
  • 00:23:12.140 --> 00:23:14.040
  • who actually drank herself to
  • 00:23:14.040 --> 00:23:16.000
  • death.
  • 00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:17.120
  • Neither she nor her husband
  • 00:23:17.120 --> 00:23:18.230
  • believed in God when she died.
  • 00:23:18.230 --> 00:23:21.130
  • - Darren Wilson: Oksana was
  • 00:28:31.270 --> 00:28:32.160
  • raised from the dead, and now
  • 00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:34.100
  • her entire family are
  • 00:28:34.100 --> 00:28:35.210
  • Christians.
  • 00:28:35.210 --> 00:28:37.010
  • Their neighbors are Christians,
  • 00:28:37.010 --> 00:28:38.250
  • and they see healings and the
  • 00:28:38.250 --> 00:28:39.280
  • display of God's power on a
  • 00:28:39.280 --> 00:28:41.160
  • regular basis in this, one of
  • 00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:43.180
  • the furthest reaches of the
  • 00:28:43.180 --> 00:28:45.000
  • - Darren Wilson: While I know
  • 00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:49.130
  • those who argue strongly against
  • 00:28:49.130 --> 00:28:50.190
  • the concept of hell as a place
  • 00:28:50.190 --> 00:28:52.120
  • humans will be sent when they
  • 00:28:52.120 --> 00:28:53.240
  • die probably won't budge, I
  • 00:28:53.240 --> 00:28:56.050
  • think it's important to note
  • 00:28:56.050 --> 00:28:57.140
  • that no matter where you fall on
  • 00:28:57.140 --> 00:28:59.070
  • this issue, God doesn't want
  • 00:28:59.070 --> 00:29:00.270
  • anyone to live this life or any
  • 00:29:00.270 --> 00:29:03.200
  • life beyond this without knowing
  • 00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:05.230
  • him and his goodness.
  • 00:29:05.230 --> 00:29:07.220
  • If hell is real, God isn't
  • 00:29:07.220 --> 00:29:10.000
  • sending anyone there.
  • 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:11.220
  • They are simply choosing an
  • 00:29:11.220 --> 00:29:12.290
  • existence without him.
  • 00:29:12.290 --> 00:29:14.250
  • While we'll all eventually find
  • 00:29:14.250 --> 00:29:16.160
  • out the truth when we die, I,
  • 00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:18.060
  • for one, would much rather spend
  • 00:29:18.060 --> 00:29:19.230
  • as much time as I can with the
  • 00:29:19.230 --> 00:29:21.230
  • God who loves me enough to die
  • 00:29:21.230 --> 00:29:24.000