Crusades: Is Bigger Better? | TBN

Crusades: Is Bigger Better?

Watch Crusades: Is Bigger Better?
February 20, 2018
29:32

Adventures with God

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Crusades: Is Bigger Better?

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  • - Darren Wilson: For 10 years,
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  • I've traveled the world in an
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  • attempt to film God touching
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  • people's lives.
  • 00:00:03.030 --> 00:00:04.020
  • And I've captured some of the
  • 00:00:04.020 --> 00:00:04.290
  • most incredible moments of faith
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  • and miracles ever caught on
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  • film.
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  • But I've discovered that faith
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  • is as much about questions as it
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  • is answers, as much mystery as
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  • it is certainty.
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  • So I wanna take you on a new
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  • adventure.
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  • Together, we'll wrestle with big
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  • questions about God but we'll
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  • also see faith in its purest
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  • form.
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  • It's time to face our questions
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  • head on.
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  • It's time to see proof that God
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  • exists.
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  • It's time for "Adventures with
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  • - Darren: Being an American, I
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  • feel like I often have a
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  • built-in bent towards growth and
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  • I think it's easy for many
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  • Christians and ministries to
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  • take the attitude that if our
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  • ministry is getting bigger then
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  • we are somehow more in line with
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  • God's will than other
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  • ministries.
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  • But I think we all have seen,
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  • for instance, massive
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  • megachurches that were more
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  • corporation than a dwelling
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  • place for God's Spirit.
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  • And we've also seen tiny
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  • churches that are vibrant,
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  • power-filled places that
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  • represented God's heart in
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  • technicolor.
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  • So a question I've pondered
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  • often when it comes to ministry
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  • is: "Is bigger better?"
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  • My good friend, Will Hacker,
  • 00:01:09.210 --> 00:01:11.000
  • while directing his feature
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  • film, "Finger of God 2,"
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  • traveled to Africa with a
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  • ministry doing some of the
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  • biggest events on earth to find
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  • - Will Hacker: We--so we went
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  • up to--we got out of the airport
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  • after waiting for Mike's bag for
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  • about 35 minutes, about, and
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  • then as we're coming out a
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  • couple of guys wanted to see if
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  • we needed a taxi.
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  • Didn't need a taxi.
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  • And then Kwame came up with his
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  • friend and we thought they were
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  • taxi drivers so we're, like,
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  • "No, we don't need you, don't
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  • want you."
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  • And apparently, those are the
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  • people that we were supposed to
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  • meet so, fortunately, they had
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  • our names on a piece of paper
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  • and they also had pictures of us
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  • so they knew exactly who we
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  • were.
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  • We were supposed to meet them in
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  • Tamale, not in Ghana, so I was a
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  • little bit thrown off that
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  • somebody was trying to grab my
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  • bag and tell me that I was
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  • supposed to go with them.
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  • But it all worked out great and
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  • they're amazing people, so off
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  • - female: We are all--
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  • - Will: Yes, yes.
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  • All right.
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  • - female: God will bless.
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  • - Will: How much?
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  • How much for everybody?
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  • To drive.
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  • [chatter]
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  • - Will: Fifteen?
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  • For everyone?
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  • How much?
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  • - female: Twenty.
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  • - Will: Twenty?
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  • Fifteen, fifteen for everyone?
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  • Is this your car?
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  • Is this yours?
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  • Oh, oh, oh.
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  • - Will: Can you do it?
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  • Yeah, yeah.
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  • - Darren: Look at that, look at
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  • - male: -- Has this become
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  • boring to you
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  • or is this still exciting?
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  • 'Cause this is exciting for us.
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  • - Daniel Kolenda: And the
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  • Scripture says that when the
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  • Word of God was preached and the
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  • great miracles began to happen
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  • that there was great joy in the
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  • city and I feel like that is
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  • going to be the testimony of
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  • Tamale.
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  • And when this week is over, a
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  • blessing from heaven will rest
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  • upon Tamale as never before.
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  • And I believe that your children
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  • and your children's children
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  • will be telling the stories of
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  • - Daniel: I'm probably a little
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  • bit biased in this way, as an
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  • evangelist, but I really believe
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  • that what moves the heart of God
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  • is souls.
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  • You know, I travel to a lot of
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  • churches around the world and I
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  • see people worshiping and
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  • praising God, dancing, clapping,
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  • singing, and I often say to them
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  • that the true test of one's
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  • relationship with God is not how
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  • loud you sing.
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  • It's not how high you dance in
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  • the worship.
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  • It's how much your heart burns
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  • for the lost and this is why I
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  • say that.
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  • Because worship is not songs.
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  • You can worship without songs.
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  • That you could worship songs.
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  • You could worship worship.
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  • What worship is, is drawing near
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  • to the heart of God.
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  • And if you draw near enough to
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  • God's heart, to lay your head on
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  • his chest like John the beloved
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  • did and to hear his heart beat,
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  • this is what it sounds like:
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  • salvation, salvation, salvation.
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  • His heart beats for the
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  • salvation of the lost.
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  • That's why Jesus came from
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  • heaven to earth to seek and save
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  • - Darren: All right, so in this
  • 00:07:02.070 --> 00:07:03.210
  • episode we are looking at the
  • 00:07:03.210 --> 00:07:06.010
  • question--we're talking about
  • 00:07:06.010 --> 00:07:08.050
  • crusades and really looking at
  • 00:07:08.050 --> 00:07:10.010
  • the question, like: "Is bigger
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  • better?"
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  • Like, because I think,
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  • especially like--we've got
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  • pastors here, we've got Daniel
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  • Kolenda here.
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  • We, you know, have got,
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  • like--we're talking about
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  • numbers.
  • 00:07:19.200 --> 00:07:20.120
  • We're talking about kind of like
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  • the idea, the desire, for
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  • greater numbers either in our
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  • churches or at our crusades.
  • 00:07:25.170 --> 00:07:26.290
  • So we're gonna get into all that
  • 00:07:26.290 --> 00:07:27.240
  • really quick.
  • 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:28.160
  • But first of all, I wanna talk
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  • to you, Mr. Hacker.
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  • Will Hacker is with us and he is
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  • the director of "Finger of God
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  • 2" which is what we're looking
  • 00:07:36.290 --> 00:07:38.220
  • at--we'll be looking at some of
  • 00:07:38.220 --> 00:07:39.220
  • that footage today in this
  • 00:07:39.220 --> 00:07:40.210
  • episode.
  • 00:07:40.210 --> 00:07:41.250
  • But I want, just real quick,
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  • Will, just so we can kind of get
  • 00:07:43.190 --> 00:07:44.180
  • everybody up to speed, talk to
  • 00:07:44.180 --> 00:07:45.250
  • us about your project.
  • 00:07:45.250 --> 00:07:47.000
  • Talk to us about this film and
  • 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:49.070
  • kind of what you're trying to
  • 00:07:49.070 --> 00:07:50.180
  • accomplish with it.
  • 00:07:50.180 --> 00:07:52.180
  • - Will: Yeah, so we looked at
  • 00:07:52.250 --> 00:07:55.250
  • the films, looked at--you and I
  • 00:07:55.250 --> 00:07:58.080
  • had been working together for,
  • 00:07:58.080 --> 00:07:59.070
  • like, a year and a half and been
  • 00:07:59.070 --> 00:08:01.110
  • good friends and saw the
  • 00:08:01.110 --> 00:08:02.240
  • miracles in the beginning,
  • 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:03.260
  • "Finger of God," and then they
  • 00:08:03.260 --> 00:08:05.120
  • just kept on getting bigger, and
  • 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:07.170
  • bigger stories.
  • 00:08:07.170 --> 00:08:08.200
  • You're in the temple of the--
  • 00:08:08.260 --> 00:08:11.260
  • And the question kept on ringing
  • 00:08:11.260 --> 00:08:13.060
  • in my head, like, what is the
  • 00:08:13.060 --> 00:08:14.050
  • point?
  • 00:08:14.050 --> 00:08:15.280
  • You asked the question, "Are
  • 00:08:15.280 --> 00:08:17.070
  • miracles real?"
  • 00:08:17.070 --> 00:08:19.010
  • From a conservative background,
  • 00:08:19.010 --> 00:08:20.080
  • from a evangelical,
  • 00:08:20.080 --> 00:08:21.120
  • Bible-teaching background, I
  • 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:23.050
  • was, like, "So what?
  • 00:08:23.050 --> 00:08:24.280
  • So what happens now?"
  • 00:08:24.280 --> 00:08:26.120
  • And I honestly, it just kept on
  • 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:28.070
  • running through my head and we
  • 00:08:28.070 --> 00:08:29.140
  • kind of came up with the idea
  • 00:08:29.140 --> 00:08:31.100
  • that and "Finger of God 2" is to
  • 00:08:31.100 --> 00:08:34.020
  • just kind of explore, like, what
  • 00:08:34.020 --> 00:08:35.190
  • is the bigger, what is God doing
  • 00:08:35.190 --> 00:08:37.120
  • since the miracles have
  • 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:38.160
  • happened?
  • 00:08:38.160 --> 00:08:39.270
  • And do things just drop off the
  • 00:08:39.270 --> 00:08:41.200
  • map?
  • 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:42.160
  • Do they, you know, fall off the
  • 00:08:42.160 --> 00:08:43.170
  • cliff or is God doing something
  • 00:08:43.170 --> 00:08:45.060
  • huge?
  • 00:08:45.060 --> 00:08:46.120
  • And it kind of began to wrestle
  • 00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:48.000
  • in me the question of what's the
  • 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:49.200
  • point of Christianity?
  • 00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:51.070
  • I mean, what's--what are we
  • 00:08:51.070 --> 00:08:52.090
  • going after?
  • 00:08:52.090 --> 00:08:53.040
  • Is it miracles, is it power, is
  • 00:08:53.040 --> 00:08:54.260
  • it authority?
  • 00:08:54.260 --> 00:08:56.250
  • Is it evangelism?
  • 00:08:56.250 --> 00:08:57.260
  • You know, what is the point?
  • 00:08:57.260 --> 00:08:58.250
  • And so, we started contacting
  • 00:08:59.180 --> 00:09:02.200
  • people, and Daniel was one of
  • 00:09:02.200 --> 00:09:03.190
  • the first people that, you know,
  • 00:09:03.190 --> 00:09:05.140
  • we kind of looked to of God's
  • 00:09:05.140 --> 00:09:07.030
  • doing something huge.
  • 00:09:07.030 --> 00:09:09.050
  • And to be honest, as I talked to
  • 00:09:09.070 --> 00:09:12.070
  • people in my circles about
  • 00:09:12.070 --> 00:09:14.050
  • Reinhard Bonnke, they literally
  • 00:09:14.050 --> 00:09:15.240
  • have no idea who he is.
  • 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:17.210
  • I mean, no idea, you know?
  • 00:09:17.210 --> 00:09:19.090
  • Apparently, 70, 75 million
  • 00:09:19.090 --> 00:09:20.280
  • people coming to Christ is not
  • 00:09:20.280 --> 00:09:22.240
  • noteworthy.
  • 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:25.000
  • And--
  • 00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:27.170
  • - Darren: In the evangelical
  • 00:09:27.170 --> 00:09:28.290
  • world.
  • 00:09:28.290 --> 00:09:29.260
  • - Will: Yeah, in the
  • 00:09:29.260 --> 00:09:30.190
  • evangelical world.
  • 00:09:30.190 --> 00:09:31.120
  • And to be honest, even more so,
  • 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:32.200
  • it's almost laughable, like,
  • 00:09:32.200 --> 00:09:34.070
  • there's no way that that's true
  • 00:09:34.070 --> 00:09:35.100
  • because I haven't heard about
  • 00:09:35.100 --> 00:09:36.280
  • it.
  • 00:09:36.280 --> 00:09:37.280
  • And so that was kind of the how
  • 00:09:37.290 --> 00:09:40.290
  • we got to being able to film and
  • 00:09:40.290 --> 00:09:42.210
  • contacting you and you
  • 00:09:42.210 --> 00:09:44.020
  • graciously inviting us to the
  • 00:09:44.020 --> 00:09:45.220
  • Crusade.
  • 00:09:45.220 --> 00:09:46.230
  • So that's where we found
  • 00:09:46.230 --> 00:09:48.010
  • ourselves at the Crusade.
  • 00:09:48.010 --> 00:09:49.050
  • - Darren: Okay, so let's pause
  • 00:09:49.050 --> 00:09:50.130
  • there and I wanna meet you.
  • 00:09:50.130 --> 00:09:52.080
  • So for people who don't know who
  • 00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:53.160
  • you are, just give me a brief
  • 00:09:53.160 --> 00:09:54.180
  • thumbnail sketch of kind of who
  • 00:09:54.180 --> 00:09:56.250
  • you are, what you do.
  • 00:09:56.250 --> 00:09:58.010
  • - Daniel: Well, I'm an
  • 00:09:58.010 --> 00:09:58.260
  • evangelist.
  • 00:09:58.260 --> 00:10:00.040
  • Most people know me as the
  • 00:10:00.040 --> 00:10:01.070
  • successor to Reinhard Bonnke
  • 00:10:01.070 --> 00:10:03.010
  • who, I know I'm a bit biased,
  • 00:10:03.010 --> 00:10:04.140
  • but I would say he's the
  • 00:10:04.140 --> 00:10:05.270
  • greatest evangelist of our
  • 00:10:05.270 --> 00:10:07.020
  • lifetime, maybe in history.
  • 00:10:07.020 --> 00:10:09.030
  • I mean, he's spoken to the
  • 00:10:09.030 --> 00:10:10.170
  • largest crowds that have ever
  • 00:10:10.170 --> 00:10:12.070
  • gathered in the history of the
  • 00:10:12.070 --> 00:10:13.210
  • world.
  • 00:10:13.210 --> 00:10:14.190
  • So like you said, it's over 76
  • 00:10:14.190 --> 00:10:15.210
  • million now.
  • 00:10:15.210 --> 00:10:16.290
  • But that's just in 30 years.
  • 00:10:16.290 --> 00:10:18.290
  • So that comes out to over 7000
  • 00:10:18.290 --> 00:10:20.190
  • people per day for 20--for 30
  • 00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:24.120
  • consecutive years.
  • 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:25.080
  • So it's really, really
  • 00:10:25.080 --> 00:10:25.280
  • incredible what God's doing.
  • 00:10:25.280 --> 00:10:27.110
  • And 7 years ago, I stepped into
  • 00:10:27.110 --> 00:10:29.040
  • the position of leading that
  • 00:10:29.040 --> 00:10:30.110
  • ministry and since then I've
  • 00:10:30.110 --> 00:10:31.160
  • been the one, you know,
  • 00:10:31.160 --> 00:10:33.050
  • conducting these huge crusades
  • 00:10:33.050 --> 00:10:34.240
  • overseas and it's amazing
  • 00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:36.110
  • because it's not just that
  • 00:10:36.110 --> 00:10:38.150
  • people are getting saved.
  • 00:10:38.150 --> 00:10:39.230
  • I mean, that's amazing but
  • 00:10:39.230 --> 00:10:41.170
  • what's also happening is that
  • 00:10:41.170 --> 00:10:43.060
  • with these crusades, entire
  • 00:10:43.060 --> 00:10:45.220
  • regions are shaken.
  • 00:10:45.220 --> 00:10:47.050
  • I mean, imagine if 80% of a city
  • 00:10:47.050 --> 00:10:50.010
  • shows up and hears the gospel,
  • 00:10:50.010 --> 00:10:51.190
  • sees miracles, watches people
  • 00:10:51.190 --> 00:10:53.190
  • getting delivered of demons,
  • 00:10:53.190 --> 00:10:54.240
  • sees the sick getting healed.
  • 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:56.080
  • It does something in the
  • 00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:57.130
  • atmosphere and the culture of
  • 00:10:57.130 --> 00:10:59.020
  • the entire region.
  • 00:10:59.020 --> 00:11:00.170
  • It's more than just the sum of
  • 00:11:00.170 --> 00:11:02.100
  • the parts.
  • 00:11:02.100 --> 00:11:03.060
  • There's something exponentially
  • 00:11:03.060 --> 00:11:04.140
  • greater.
  • 00:11:04.140 --> 00:11:05.130
  • There's a synergy that the
  • 00:11:05.130 --> 00:11:06.170
  • gospel just impacts the whole
  • 00:11:06.170 --> 00:11:07.180
  • region, and that's what we're
  • 00:11:07.180 --> 00:11:08.180
  • seeing all over Africa.
  • 00:11:08.180 --> 00:11:10.050
  • - male: You know, so basically
  • 00:12:10.250 --> 00:12:12.070
  • our job is to make sure that
  • 00:12:12.070 --> 00:12:13.190
  • every single person on this
  • 00:12:13.190 --> 00:12:14.230
  • field walks away with the
  • 00:12:14.230 --> 00:12:16.150
  • message ringing in their ears so
  • 00:12:16.150 --> 00:12:18.290
  • at least then they have the
  • 00:12:18.290 --> 00:12:20.250
  • conscious decision to make, "Do
  • 00:12:20.260 --> 00:12:23.260
  • I give my life to Christ or do I
  • 00:12:23.260 --> 00:12:26.100
  • not?"
  • 00:12:26.100 --> 00:12:27.110
  • You know?
  • 00:12:27.110 --> 00:12:28.130
  • But, you know, I don't want 'em
  • 00:12:28.130 --> 00:12:30.000
  • stand there on Judgment Day and
  • 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:32.290
  • then say, "Well, they couldn't
  • 00:12:32.290 --> 00:12:34.000
  • hear at the back," you know?
  • 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:36.080
  • Our job is to make sure that
  • 00:12:36.080 --> 00:12:38.250
  • people can hear everywhere, no
  • 00:12:38.250 --> 00:12:41.090
  • matter--with the limited kit
  • 00:12:41.090 --> 00:12:43.060
  • that we've got.
  • 00:12:43.060 --> 00:12:45.000
  • - Daniel: I had quite a number
  • 00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:46.010
  • of seasons in my life where I
  • 00:12:46.010 --> 00:12:47.200
  • was very challenged, especially
  • 00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:49.100
  • in the area of the supernatural.
  • 00:12:49.100 --> 00:12:51.200
  • Because I was raised in a
  • 00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:53.110
  • Pentecostal preacher's home.
  • 00:12:53.110 --> 00:12:55.230
  • And so I always believed in the
  • 00:12:55.230 --> 00:12:57.080
  • miraculous.
  • 00:12:57.080 --> 00:12:58.210
  • I always believed in the
  • 00:12:58.210 --> 00:12:59.160
  • supernatural.
  • 00:12:59.160 --> 00:13:00.270
  • But for a long time, I didn't
  • 00:13:00.270 --> 00:13:02.100
  • really see it and I didn't
  • 00:13:02.100 --> 00:13:04.090
  • really see much evidence of it
  • 00:13:04.090 --> 00:13:05.130
  • in my own life or in the lives
  • 00:13:05.130 --> 00:13:07.090
  • of the people around me.
  • 00:13:08.060 --> 00:13:11.060
  • When I was 16, I went to a
  • 00:13:11.060 --> 00:13:13.250
  • revival where literally millions
  • 00:13:13.250 --> 00:13:15.210
  • of people were touched over a
  • 00:13:15.210 --> 00:13:17.190
  • series of about 5 years and I
  • 00:13:17.190 --> 00:13:20.000
  • think that was the first time
  • 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:21.070
  • that I saw real supernatural
  • 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:24.120
  • power being demonstrated.
  • 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:26.240
  • And it blew me away.
  • 00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:28.210
  • I--it opened my eyes.
  • 00:13:28.210 --> 00:13:30.130
  • I said, "I didn't know that you
  • 00:13:30.130 --> 00:13:32.080
  • could have this.
  • 00:13:32.080 --> 00:13:33.080
  • I didn't know you could live
  • 00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:34.000
  • like this."
  • 00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:34.260
  • And it was that demonstration of
  • 00:13:34.260 --> 00:13:36.210
  • power that provoked my heart to
  • 00:13:36.210 --> 00:13:38.230
  • go after this.
  • 00:13:38.230 --> 00:13:40.040
  • So I was about 16 years old when
  • 00:13:40.040 --> 00:13:41.170
  • I first experienced that.
  • 00:13:41.170 --> 00:13:43.120
  • From that day to this day, I
  • 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:45.020
  • have been chasing after this
  • 00:13:45.020 --> 00:13:47.060
  • thing with all of my heart.
  • 00:13:47.060 --> 00:13:48.290
  • Because in all honesty, if this
  • 00:13:48.290 --> 00:13:51.270
  • isn't real, if the Holy Spirit
  • 00:13:51.270 --> 00:13:54.270
  • isn't really working today, if
  • 00:13:54.270 --> 00:13:56.140
  • he's not really changing lives
  • 00:13:56.140 --> 00:13:57.260
  • today, if there's not something
  • 00:13:57.260 --> 00:13:59.070
  • tangible and real-world about
  • 00:13:59.070 --> 00:14:01.190
  • our Christianity, I'm not
  • 00:14:01.190 --> 00:14:03.040
  • interested.
  • 00:14:03.040 --> 00:14:04.110
  • I'm not interested in a bunch of
  • 00:14:04.110 --> 00:14:05.130
  • religious exercises and
  • 00:14:05.130 --> 00:14:07.000
  • doctrines and dogmas and
  • 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:09.060
  • rituals.
  • 00:14:09.060 --> 00:14:10.090
  • I just--I don't care about any
  • 00:14:10.090 --> 00:14:11.230
  • of that stuff.
  • 00:14:11.230 --> 00:14:12.230
  • I want something that's real.
  • 00:14:12.230 --> 00:14:14.140
  • I want something that affects
  • 00:14:14.140 --> 00:14:15.190
  • people's lives.
  • 00:14:15.190 --> 00:14:16.260
  • I want something that affects my
  • 00:14:16.260 --> 00:14:17.220
  • own life and that's why I've
  • 00:14:17.220 --> 00:14:20.030
  • gone after this thing.
  • 00:14:20.030 --> 00:14:21.140
  • - Will: So what are we
  • 00:14:21.140 --> 00:14:22.070
  • expecting tonight?
  • 00:14:22.070 --> 00:14:23.230
  • - Daniel: Tonight.
  • 00:14:23.230 --> 00:14:24.150
  • Tonight, I'm gonna preach on the
  • 00:14:24.150 --> 00:14:25.100
  • blood of Jesus, which should be
  • 00:14:25.100 --> 00:14:26.220
  • interesting.
  • 00:14:26.220 --> 00:14:28.200
  • We're gonna burn fetishes,
  • 00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:29.180
  • charms, amulets, idols, juju,
  • 00:14:30.020 --> 00:14:33.020
  • all these things that, you know,
  • 00:14:33.020 --> 00:14:34.150
  • might have been given to people
  • 00:14:34.150 --> 00:14:35.120
  • by witchdoctors.
  • 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:36.100
  • You'll see a lot of
  • 00:14:36.100 --> 00:14:37.180
  • - Daniel: If you asked what I'm
  • 00:15:15.190 --> 00:15:16.080
  • thinking right now, in all
  • 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:17.050
  • honesty, I'm a little
  • 00:15:17.050 --> 00:15:18.150
  • disappointed with the turnout
  • 00:15:18.150 --> 00:15:19.160
  • 'cause it's kind of small.
  • 00:15:19.160 --> 00:15:21.130
  • But I know, I have this
  • 00:15:21.130 --> 00:15:22.130
  • confidence in my heart that once
  • 00:15:22.130 --> 00:15:23.210
  • Jesus starts to move here and
  • 00:15:23.210 --> 00:15:25.230
  • the miracles start to happen,
  • 00:15:25.230 --> 00:15:27.090
  • it's gonna be--it's gonna be off
  • 00:15:27.090 --> 00:15:29.020
  • - Darren: Just, like, talk to
  • 00:15:38.060 --> 00:15:39.070
  • me about this tension as, like,
  • 00:15:39.070 --> 00:15:41.260
  • somebody who's running a church,
  • 00:15:41.260 --> 00:15:43.290
  • that this tension between, like,
  • 00:15:43.290 --> 00:15:46.080
  • wanting growth but at the same
  • 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:47.190
  • time wanting to, like, really be
  • 00:15:47.190 --> 00:15:49.220
  • able to still connect with your
  • 00:15:49.220 --> 00:15:50.220
  • people, to still really pastor
  • 00:15:50.220 --> 00:15:53.000
  • your people.
  • 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:53.210
  • 'Cause at a certain point, it
  • 00:15:53.210 --> 00:15:55.150
  • stops really being possible,
  • 00:15:55.150 --> 00:15:57.030
  • right, to, like, be truly
  • 00:15:57.030 --> 00:15:58.120
  • pastoral over everybody in your
  • 00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:01.020
  • church.
  • 00:16:01.020 --> 00:16:02.080
  • So, like, what--is there a
  • 00:16:02.080 --> 00:16:03.130
  • tension or is it just always,
  • 00:16:03.130 --> 00:16:04.230
  • like, you just go for more?
  • 00:16:04.230 --> 00:16:06.260
  • - Darren Davis: I think, you
  • 00:16:06.260 --> 00:16:07.140
  • know, different leaders are
  • 00:16:07.140 --> 00:16:08.040
  • gonna have different capacity
  • 00:16:08.040 --> 00:16:10.040
  • for the stewardship of lives
  • 00:16:10.040 --> 00:16:11.270
  • and, you know, a lot of times
  • 00:16:11.270 --> 00:16:14.210
  • that's bashed in the Western
  • 00:16:14.210 --> 00:16:16.090
  • culture as it relates to
  • 00:16:16.090 --> 00:16:17.220
  • megachurch or big events.
  • 00:16:17.220 --> 00:16:19.050
  • And there could be some, "Hey,
  • 00:16:19.220 --> 00:16:22.220
  • why are we--why are we bashing
  • 00:16:22.220 --> 00:16:24.130
  • those realities?"
  • 00:16:24.130 --> 00:16:25.180
  • But I do think God puts grace on
  • 00:16:25.180 --> 00:16:26.230
  • certain people to steward many,
  • 00:16:26.280 --> 00:16:29.280
  • - Shawn Bolz: I think, I look
  • 00:16:33.280 --> 00:16:35.110
  • at Jesus as inherent to the
  • 00:16:35.110 --> 00:16:36.080
  • Bible.
  • 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:36.270
  • It's always cities.
  • 00:16:36.270 --> 00:16:37.290
  • It's always, you know, regions.
  • 00:16:37.290 --> 00:16:39.170
  • It's always--he speaks to the
  • 00:16:39.170 --> 00:16:41.100
  • seven cities in, you know, the
  • 00:16:41.100 --> 00:16:42.220
  • book of Revelation and I think,
  • 00:16:42.220 --> 00:16:44.150
  • like, I just wanna give him his
  • 00:16:44.150 --> 00:16:45.160
  • reward.
  • 00:16:45.160 --> 00:16:46.100
  • But I feel like a lot of pastors
  • 00:16:46.100 --> 00:16:47.230
  • get caught up in almost like a
  • 00:16:47.230 --> 00:16:48.200
  • Messiah complex.
  • 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:49.190
  • Like the Schindler's list, you
  • 00:16:49.190 --> 00:16:50.110
  • know?
  • 00:16:50.110 --> 00:16:51.130
  • If I just give this--I can
  • 00:16:51.130 --> 00:16:52.170
  • buy one more, you know, like?
  • 00:16:52.170 --> 00:16:54.110
  • And I feel like, I love the
  • 00:16:54.110 --> 00:16:57.010
  • context of growing family
  • 00:16:57.010 --> 00:16:59.120
  • because there's never enough
  • 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:01.020
  • family.
  • 00:17:01.020 --> 00:17:01.240
  • Like, when you love your family
  • 00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:02.240
  • and you do a family gathering,
  • 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:03.220
  • if someone's missing, you're
  • 00:17:03.220 --> 00:17:04.140
  • like, "Oh, I just wish you were
  • 00:17:04.140 --> 00:17:05.140
  • there."
  • 00:17:05.140 --> 00:17:06.020
  • So I get really homesick for
  • 00:17:06.020 --> 00:17:06.270
  • who's not there.
  • 00:17:06.270 --> 00:17:08.150
  • Then I look at a region and I
  • 00:17:08.150 --> 00:17:09.130
  • think of--we went in with our
  • 00:17:09.130 --> 00:17:11.080
  • city in Los Angeles and they had
  • 00:17:11.080 --> 00:17:12.260
  • the city map.
  • 00:17:12.260 --> 00:17:13.210
  • The leaders have a city map and
  • 00:17:13.210 --> 00:17:14.280
  • it's all the quadrants of
  • 00:17:14.280 --> 00:17:15.290
  • society that affect and build
  • 00:17:15.290 --> 00:17:17.110
  • our city.
  • 00:17:17.110 --> 00:17:18.050
  • And they have, like, you know,
  • 00:17:18.050 --> 00:17:19.110
  • the fire police, or the fire,
  • 00:17:19.110 --> 00:17:20.290
  • police chiefs, and those guys,
  • 00:17:20.290 --> 00:17:22.090
  • and disaster relief and the
  • 00:17:22.090 --> 00:17:24.060
  • homeless and the, you know, all
  • 00:17:24.060 --> 00:17:25.250
  • the different stuff that people
  • 00:17:25.250 --> 00:17:26.270
  • will reach out to homeless, the
  • 00:17:26.270 --> 00:17:27.230
  • education, the--all the things.
  • 00:17:27.230 --> 00:17:29.180
  • And then the church was way over
  • 00:17:29.180 --> 00:17:30.270
  • here on the outside.
  • 00:17:30.270 --> 00:17:32.080
  • And I said, "Well, what's going
  • 00:17:32.080 --> 00:17:33.210
  • on with the church?
  • 00:17:33.210 --> 00:17:34.170
  • Like, how come it's over there?"
  • 00:17:34.170 --> 00:17:35.150
  • And they said, "Well, we don't
  • 00:17:35.150 --> 00:17:36.080
  • really know how to connect."
  • 00:17:36.080 --> 00:17:37.100
  • There's 4000 churches out there.
  • 00:17:37.100 --> 00:17:38.120
  • "We don't really know how to
  • 00:17:38.120 --> 00:17:39.050
  • connect our needs to the church
  • 00:17:39.050 --> 00:17:40.170
  • and they're kind of more
  • 00:17:40.170 --> 00:17:41.070
  • self-involved."
  • 00:17:41.070 --> 00:17:42.290
  • And I just thought, you know,
  • 00:17:42.290 --> 00:17:43.260
  • like, it is about influence.
  • 00:17:43.260 --> 00:17:46.140
  • It is--we are called to
  • 00:17:46.140 --> 00:17:47.170
  • influence out of God's love, to
  • 00:17:47.170 --> 00:17:49.130
  • help bring about--they have a
  • 00:17:49.130 --> 00:17:50.120
  • map of how they're influencing
  • 00:17:50.120 --> 00:17:51.280
  • our culture of our city and
  • 00:17:51.280 --> 00:17:53.160
  • we're not part of it.
  • 00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:55.040
  • I was, like, Jesus, like, this
  • 00:17:55.040 --> 00:17:58.020
  • is your favorite thing, the
  • 00:17:58.020 --> 00:17:59.000
  • cities.
  • 00:17:59.000 --> 00:17:59.210
  • You come and you bless and you
  • 00:17:59.210 --> 00:18:01.030
  • grace regions.
  • 00:18:01.030 --> 00:18:02.050
  • You love people groups, and
  • 00:18:02.050 --> 00:18:03.210
  • we're not involved.
  • 00:18:03.210 --> 00:18:04.260
  • - Darren Davis: I think there's
  • 00:18:04.260 --> 00:18:06.030
  • a longing for relationship, for
  • 00:18:06.030 --> 00:18:08.000
  • intimacy, which is and should be
  • 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:09.120
  • the foundation of community,
  • 00:18:09.120 --> 00:18:10.150
  • absolutely.
  • 00:18:10.150 --> 00:18:11.230
  • And that's why Jesus, he's
  • 00:18:11.230 --> 00:18:13.060
  • ministering to the multitudes,
  • 00:18:13.060 --> 00:18:14.230
  • right?
  • 00:18:14.230 --> 00:18:15.170
  • Then he turns to who?
  • 00:18:15.170 --> 00:18:16.110
  • The 12 disciples.
  • 00:18:16.110 --> 00:18:17.180
  • And even within his 12, he had 3
  • 00:18:17.180 --> 00:18:18.260
  • intimate friends, you know?
  • 00:18:18.260 --> 00:18:20.230
  • Even in the midst of that.
  • 00:18:20.230 --> 00:18:22.020
  • So we need to shift the mindsets
  • 00:18:22.020 --> 00:18:24.130
  • if we wanna have more influence.
  • 00:18:24.130 --> 00:18:26.070
  • You know, not everybody's gonna
  • 00:18:26.070 --> 00:18:27.140
  • be able to have a personal
  • 00:18:27.140 --> 00:18:28.210
  • relationship with, say, one
  • 00:18:28.210 --> 00:18:30.200
  • leader.
  • 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:31.160
  • But if we can break down the
  • 00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:34.000
  • ministry within our churches to
  • 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:36.190
  • smaller subgroups, that's the
  • 00:18:36.190 --> 00:18:38.010
  • - female: We're very sad
  • 00:19:47.260 --> 00:19:48.290
  • because we know our mom very
  • 00:19:48.290 --> 00:19:51.030
  • well.
  • 00:19:51.030 --> 00:19:52.220
  • Though our dad passed away, they
  • 00:19:52.220 --> 00:19:54.180
  • were together.
  • 00:19:54.180 --> 00:19:56.120
  • We're taking care of her.
  • 00:19:56.120 --> 00:19:58.040
  • All that we could do to help
  • 00:19:58.040 --> 00:19:59.200
  • her.
  • 00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:01.040
  • So this sickness came.
  • 00:20:01.040 --> 00:20:03.000
  • It wasn't easy for us at all.
  • 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:05.110
  • See her helpless, lying down, it
  • 00:20:06.140 --> 00:20:09.140
  • wasn't easy for us.
  • 00:20:09.140 --> 00:20:11.190
  • Do you wake?
  • 00:20:11.190 --> 00:20:12.220
  • It wasn't easy.
  • 00:20:12.220 --> 00:20:14.260
  • - Daniel: Early on when I
  • 00:20:14.260 --> 00:20:15.240
  • started working with Reinhard,
  • 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:17.100
  • you know, he would send me out
  • 00:20:17.100 --> 00:20:18.040
  • to pray for the sick in these
  • 00:20:18.040 --> 00:20:19.010
  • huge meetings.
  • 00:20:19.010 --> 00:20:20.030
  • And I said to him one time, I
  • 00:20:20.030 --> 00:20:21.030
  • said, "What if I pray for the
  • 00:20:21.030 --> 00:20:22.070
  • sick and nobody gets healed?"
  • 00:20:22.070 --> 00:20:24.060
  • And he said, "Och," almost like
  • 00:20:24.060 --> 00:20:25.220
  • it was a silly suggestion.
  • 00:20:25.220 --> 00:20:27.120
  • He said, "Och."
  • 00:20:27.120 --> 00:20:28.270
  • He said, "If you pray for nine
  • 00:20:28.270 --> 00:20:29.200
  • people and no one gets healed,
  • 00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:31.010
  • pray for number ten as though
  • 00:20:31.010 --> 00:20:32.080
  • everyone had been healed because
  • 00:20:32.080 --> 00:20:33.190
  • your experience does not change
  • 00:20:33.190 --> 00:20:35.030
  • - female: She used to pray this
  • 00:20:40.030 --> 00:20:40.290
  • prayer, all alone, all by
  • 00:20:40.290 --> 00:20:42.120
  • herself, says, "Lord,
  • 00:20:42.120 --> 00:20:44.060
  • I have nobody.
  • 00:20:44.060 --> 00:20:45.210
  • You are my Father, you are my
  • 00:20:45.210 --> 00:20:46.260
  • Mother.
  • 00:20:46.260 --> 00:20:48.040
  • You are my everything.
  • 00:20:48.040 --> 00:20:50.060
  • Lord, heal me."
  • 00:20:50.060 --> 00:20:51.220
  • She felt that relief was coming
  • 00:20:51.220 --> 00:20:53.290
  • bit by bit until yesterday she
  • 00:20:53.290 --> 00:20:56.160
  • - Daniel: We wanna hear from
  • 00:21:02.150 --> 00:21:03.090
  • you.
  • 00:21:03.090 --> 00:21:03.280
  • So Mama, you had a stroke.
  • 00:21:03.280 --> 00:21:05.230
  • How long ago?
  • 00:21:05.230 --> 00:21:06.220
  • Six years, is that what she
  • 00:21:06.220 --> 00:21:07.200
  • said?
  • 00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:08.090
  • - male: [speaking foreign
  • 00:21:08.090 --> 00:21:09.140
  • language]
  • 00:21:09.140 --> 00:21:11.020
  • - female: [speaking foreign
  • 00:21:11.020 --> 00:21:11.280
  • language]
  • 00:21:11.280 --> 00:21:12.290
  • - male: Two years from--about
  • 00:21:12.290 --> 00:21:13.290
  • three years now.
  • 00:21:13.290 --> 00:21:14.290
  • - Daniel: Three years?
  • 00:21:14.290 --> 00:21:15.190
  • - male: Yes.
  • 00:21:15.190 --> 00:21:16.100
  • - Daniel: And so you couldn't
  • 00:21:16.100 --> 00:21:17.020
  • walk without this stick?
  • 00:21:17.020 --> 00:21:17.210
  • - male: [speaking foreign
  • 00:21:17.210 --> 00:21:18.140
  • language]
  • 00:21:18.140 --> 00:21:19.160
  • - female: [speaking foreign
  • 00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:20.120
  • language]
  • 00:21:20.120 --> 00:21:21.010
  • - male: Unless this one
  • 00:21:21.010 --> 00:21:21.290
  • I use it.
  • 00:21:21.290 --> 00:21:22.250
  • - Daniel: And now what happened
  • 00:21:22.250 --> 00:21:23.180
  • to you tonight?
  • 00:21:23.180 --> 00:21:24.140
  • - male: [speaking foreign
  • 00:21:24.140 --> 00:21:25.070
  • language]
  • 00:21:25.070 --> 00:21:25.280
  • - female: [speaking foreign
  • 00:21:25.280 --> 00:21:26.180
  • language]
  • 00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:33.000
  • - male: When I heard about
  • 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:33.280
  • this, I just said, "Let me bring
  • 00:21:33.280 --> 00:21:35.000
  • this, my sickness, and Jesus
  • 00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:36.130
  • will heal me.
  • 00:21:36.130 --> 00:21:37.080
  • And actually, he has healed me."
  • 00:21:37.080 --> 00:21:39.130
  • - Daniel: How do you know he
  • 00:21:39.130 --> 00:21:40.020
  • has healed you?
  • 00:21:40.020 --> 00:21:40.270
  • - male: [speaking foreign
  • 00:21:40.270 --> 00:21:41.170
  • language]
  • 00:21:41.170 --> 00:21:42.070
  • - female: [speaking foreign
  • 00:21:42.070 --> 00:21:42.290
  • language]
  • 00:21:42.290 --> 00:21:44.170
  • - male: Right now, I can walk.
  • 00:21:44.170 --> 00:21:46.030
  • - Daniel: C'mon, give me your
  • 00:21:46.030 --> 00:21:46.230
  • stick.
  • 00:21:46.230 --> 00:21:47.200
  • Walk in Jesus' name.
  • 00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:49.030
  • Walk in Jesus' name.
  • 00:21:49.030 --> 00:21:50.200
  • Walk, walk, walk.
  • 00:21:50.200 --> 00:21:52.280
  • Hallelujah, hallelujah,
  • 00:21:52.280 --> 00:21:55.220
  • hallelujah.
  • 00:21:55.220 --> 00:21:57.220
  • Mama, you couldn't walk like
  • 00:21:57.220 --> 00:21:58.160
  • this before?
  • 00:21:58.160 --> 00:21:59.150
  • - male: [speaking foreign
  • 00:21:59.150 --> 00:22:00.080
  • language]
  • 00:22:00.080 --> 00:22:01.020
  • - female: [speaking foreign
  • 00:22:01.020 --> 00:22:01.200
  • language]
  • 00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:02.170
  • - male: Never walked.
  • 00:22:02.170 --> 00:22:03.140
  • - Daniel: Do you know who has
  • 00:22:03.140 --> 00:22:04.020
  • healed you?
  • 00:22:04.020 --> 00:22:04.230
  • - male: [speaking foreign
  • 00:22:04.230 --> 00:22:05.120
  • language]
  • 00:22:05.120 --> 00:22:06.000
  • - female: [speaking foreign
  • 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:06.190
  • language]
  • 00:22:06.190 --> 00:22:07.080
  • - male: Jesus has healed me.
  • 00:22:07.080 --> 00:22:09.050
  • - Daniel: Hallelujah.
  • 00:22:09.050 --> 00:22:10.000
  • Say, "Thank you, Jesus."
  • 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:12.050
  • Lord, I thank you for this
  • 00:22:12.050 --> 00:22:12.280
  • miracle.
  • 00:22:12.280 --> 00:22:13.220
  • I bless this mama in Jesus'
  • 00:22:13.220 --> 00:22:15.070
  • name.
  • 00:22:15.070 --> 00:22:16.110
  • Lord, I thank you that she will
  • 00:22:16.110 --> 00:22:17.030
  • run and not grow weary.
  • 00:22:17.030 --> 00:22:19.180
  • She will walk and not faint.
  • 00:22:19.180 --> 00:22:21.190
  • She will rise up with wings like
  • 00:22:21.190 --> 00:22:23.000
  • - Darren: So Daniel, I wanna
  • 00:22:26.280 --> 00:22:28.010
  • put on my religious jerk hat
  • 00:22:28.010 --> 00:22:30.200
  • and--
  • 00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:31.160
  • - Daniel: I'm used to this.
  • 00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:32.170
  • - Darren: So can you just tell
  • 00:22:32.170 --> 00:22:33.210
  • me--
  • 00:22:33.210 --> 00:22:34.150
  • - Will: It's not uncommon.
  • 00:22:34.150 --> 00:22:37.040
  • - Darren: I do it for the
  • 00:22:37.040 --> 00:22:37.220
  • television.
  • 00:22:37.220 --> 00:22:38.090
  • I do it for the people--
  • 00:22:38.090 --> 00:22:39.090
  • - Shawn: But the bad thing is
  • 00:22:39.090 --> 00:22:40.000
  • he never prepares us.
  • 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:40.190
  • He's--these aren't conversations
  • 00:22:40.190 --> 00:22:41.200
  • he's had before.
  • 00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:42.170
  • - Darren: No, you don't know
  • 00:22:42.170 --> 00:22:43.090
  • what's coming.
  • 00:22:43.090 --> 00:22:44.200
  • But, look, I'm really, really
  • 00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:45.200
  • happy that we're friends 'cause
  • 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:46.200
  • you're a very large man.
  • 00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:48.080
  • And I wanna--I just wanna ask
  • 00:22:48.080 --> 00:22:49.050
  • you some tough questions that
  • 00:22:49.050 --> 00:22:50.050
  • you've heard a million times,
  • 00:22:50.050 --> 00:22:51.090
  • right?
  • 00:22:51.090 --> 00:22:51.270
  • Okay, so like, talk to me about,
  • 00:22:51.270 --> 00:22:52.260
  • like, the criticism.
  • 00:22:52.260 --> 00:22:54.220
  • So the criticism comes, okay,
  • 00:22:54.220 --> 00:22:56.150
  • yeah, you get a million people.
  • 00:22:56.150 --> 00:22:57.120
  • That's amazing.
  • 00:22:57.120 --> 00:22:58.250
  • But it's all about decision
  • 00:22:58.250 --> 00:23:00.060
  • cards which we may--which we
  • 00:23:00.060 --> 00:23:02.090
  • don't even know.
  • 00:23:02.090 --> 00:23:03.110
  • Like, okay, like, they made a
  • 00:23:03.110 --> 00:23:04.080
  • one-time decision.
  • 00:23:04.080 --> 00:23:05.150
  • There's no discipleship.
  • 00:23:05.150 --> 00:23:07.000
  • That you're just getting
  • 00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:07.260
  • decisions and then you're
  • 00:23:07.260 --> 00:23:08.220
  • leaving and then you're raising
  • 00:23:08.220 --> 00:23:09.230
  • more money because you're just
  • 00:23:09.230 --> 00:23:11.010
  • getting decision cards.
  • 00:23:11.010 --> 00:23:12.110
  • - Daniel: Yeah, well, I can
  • 00:23:12.110 --> 00:23:13.100
  • answer the objection from my
  • 00:23:13.100 --> 00:23:14.100
  • standpoint.
  • 00:23:14.100 --> 00:23:15.010
  • I can't answer for every
  • 00:23:15.010 --> 00:23:15.260
  • evangelist.
  • 00:23:15.260 --> 00:23:16.160
  • But I can tell you that for us,
  • 00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:18.160
  • more than half of our budget in
  • 00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:20.030
  • every event is spent on
  • 00:23:20.030 --> 00:23:21.030
  • follow-up.
  • 00:23:21.030 --> 00:23:22.090
  • So we spend months before
  • 00:23:22.090 --> 00:23:23.170
  • training the pastors, how to
  • 00:23:23.170 --> 00:23:24.260
  • handle new converts.
  • 00:23:24.260 --> 00:23:26.090
  • During the crusade itself, every
  • 00:23:26.090 --> 00:23:27.140
  • day, we do training.
  • 00:23:27.140 --> 00:23:28.150
  • - Darren: So you're partnering
  • 00:23:28.150 --> 00:23:29.070
  • with local churches?
  • 00:23:29.070 --> 00:23:29.260
  • - Daniel: We will not go
  • 00:23:29.260 --> 00:23:30.200
  • anywhere, that's our ministry.
  • 00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:31.270
  • Now, some ministries have a
  • 00:23:31.270 --> 00:23:33.070
  • different approach.
  • 00:23:33.070 --> 00:23:34.150
  • We won't go anywhere unless the
  • 00:23:34.150 --> 00:23:35.230
  • local church works with us.
  • 00:23:35.230 --> 00:23:38.100
  • And so we have hundreds and
  • 00:23:38.100 --> 00:23:39.100
  • sometimes even thousands, like,
  • 00:23:39.100 --> 00:23:40.180
  • this one coming up in November,
  • 00:23:40.180 --> 00:23:41.200
  • we'll have thousands of churches
  • 00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:43.060
  • partnering with it.
  • 00:23:43.060 --> 00:23:44.020
  • And so we invest everything on
  • 00:23:44.020 --> 00:23:46.090
  • the front end that we can to
  • 00:23:46.090 --> 00:23:47.120
  • make sure that the churches are
  • 00:23:47.120 --> 00:23:48.120
  • ready.
  • 00:23:48.120 --> 00:23:49.120
  • The second key is those decision
  • 00:23:49.120 --> 00:23:50.270
  • cards.
  • 00:23:50.270 --> 00:23:51.210
  • So when we talk about these
  • 00:23:51.210 --> 00:23:52.170
  • numbers, like, 76 million,
  • 00:23:52.170 --> 00:23:53.230
  • that's not a estimation.
  • 00:23:53.230 --> 00:23:55.170
  • Those are people that raise
  • 00:23:55.170 --> 00:23:56.180
  • their hand and said, "I'm
  • 00:23:56.180 --> 00:23:57.130
  • receiving Jesus for the first
  • 00:23:57.130 --> 00:23:58.080
  • time."
  • 00:23:58.080 --> 00:23:59.010
  • A counselor went to them, prayed
  • 00:23:59.010 --> 00:24:00.090
  • with them, got their contact
  • 00:24:00.090 --> 00:24:01.100
  • information.
  • 00:24:01.100 --> 00:24:02.210
  • And if you were one of those new
  • 00:24:02.210 --> 00:24:03.240
  • converts, by the time you're
  • 00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:05.000
  • walking home from our crusade
  • 00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:06.070
  • that night, you'll get a text
  • 00:24:06.070 --> 00:24:07.140
  • message on your phone from me
  • 00:24:07.140 --> 00:24:08.190
  • saying that I wanna be the first
  • 00:24:08.190 --> 00:24:10.170
  • one to congratulate you on your
  • 00:24:10.170 --> 00:24:11.290
  • decision to follow Jesus.
  • 00:24:11.290 --> 00:24:13.250
  • And then I'll tell them that a
  • 00:24:13.250 --> 00:24:14.230
  • pastor will be in touch with
  • 00:24:14.230 --> 00:24:15.230
  • them, you know, about attending
  • 00:24:15.230 --> 00:24:17.140
  • the church.
  • 00:24:17.140 --> 00:24:18.140
  • A few hours later they'll get
  • 00:24:18.140 --> 00:24:19.070
  • another text message from the
  • 00:24:19.070 --> 00:24:20.110
  • pastor, welcoming them to the
  • 00:24:20.110 --> 00:24:22.120
  • church, giving them directions
  • 00:24:22.120 --> 00:24:24.020
  • and telling them that if they
  • 00:24:24.020 --> 00:24:25.120
  • bring their book, they'll be
  • 00:24:25.120 --> 00:24:26.210
  • treated as a VIP.
  • 00:24:26.210 --> 00:24:28.010
  • Of course, we send both of those
  • 00:24:28.010 --> 00:24:28.270
  • messages out.
  • 00:24:28.270 --> 00:24:30.010
  • And so we hear constantly
  • 00:24:30.010 --> 00:24:31.060
  • because our crusade runs
  • 00:24:31.060 --> 00:24:32.130
  • Thursday through Sunday so on
  • 00:24:32.180 --> 00:24:35.180
  • Sunday night we get to hear what
  • 00:24:35.180 --> 00:24:37.140
  • happened on Sunday morning in
  • 00:24:37.140 --> 00:24:38.230
  • the churches.
  • 00:24:38.230 --> 00:24:39.280
  • And so we hear--I mean, I could
  • 00:24:39.280 --> 00:24:41.030
  • go on for hours telling you the
  • 00:24:41.030 --> 00:24:42.040
  • stories.
  • 00:24:42.040 --> 00:24:42.250
  • We've heard of churches that
  • 00:24:42.250 --> 00:24:43.200
  • have quadrupled.
  • 00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:44.270
  • You know, one pastor said he had
  • 00:24:44.270 --> 00:24:46.020
  • to have three services.
  • 00:24:46.020 --> 00:24:47.270
  • He told his own church members,
  • 00:24:47.270 --> 00:24:49.170
  • "I need you to step outside so
  • 00:24:49.170 --> 00:24:51.000
  • we can have a new converts
  • 00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:52.050
  • service," there were so many new
  • 00:24:52.050 --> 00:24:53.040
  • converts.
  • 00:24:53.040 --> 00:24:53.270
  • He had to do that three services
  • 00:24:53.270 --> 00:24:55.000
  • in a row before his regular
  • 00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:56.000
  • church members could get back
  • 00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:56.270
  • in.
  • 00:24:56.270 --> 00:24:58.020
  • For us, it works.
  • 00:24:58.020 --> 00:24:59.100
  • And I have to also say this.
  • 00:24:59.100 --> 00:25:01.080
  • That again, there's
  • 00:25:01.080 --> 00:25:02.250
  • actually--the criticism is
  • 00:25:02.250 --> 00:25:05.170
  • invalid on a number of levels
  • 00:25:05.170 --> 00:25:08.090
  • because it's not only the people
  • 00:25:08.090 --> 00:25:10.030
  • that are getting saved in those
  • 00:25:10.030 --> 00:25:11.000
  • meetings.
  • 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:11.260
  • One of the phenomenon that we
  • 00:25:11.260 --> 00:25:12.260
  • discovered years ago is that we
  • 00:25:12.260 --> 00:25:14.050
  • would send our team back, you
  • 00:25:14.050 --> 00:25:16.230
  • know, the next month, like, 6
  • 00:25:16.230 --> 00:25:18.090
  • months later, to check up on
  • 00:25:18.090 --> 00:25:19.170
  • those local churches and what we
  • 00:25:19.170 --> 00:25:21.090
  • found is that the churches not
  • 00:25:21.090 --> 00:25:23.040
  • only experienced a bump of
  • 00:25:23.040 --> 00:25:24.150
  • growth after the crusade, but a
  • 00:25:24.150 --> 00:25:27.140
  • couple of months later, they had
  • 00:25:27.140 --> 00:25:28.220
  • another bump of growth.
  • 00:25:28.220 --> 00:25:30.080
  • And we kept seeing this pattern,
  • 00:25:30.080 --> 00:25:31.240
  • it was so consistent, that we
  • 00:25:31.240 --> 00:25:33.060
  • started to query it.
  • 00:25:33.060 --> 00:25:34.160
  • We sent our guys back and said,
  • 00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:35.150
  • "Find out why this is
  • 00:25:35.150 --> 00:25:36.120
  • happening."
  • 00:25:36.120 --> 00:25:37.110
  • And so what they came back with,
  • 00:25:37.110 --> 00:25:39.060
  • they said, "You'll never believe
  • 00:25:39.060 --> 00:25:40.050
  • what's happening.
  • 00:25:40.050 --> 00:25:41.080
  • It's actually because of the new
  • 00:25:41.080 --> 00:25:42.290
  • converts that get saved, their
  • 00:25:42.290 --> 00:25:44.170
  • families watch them for a few
  • 00:25:44.170 --> 00:25:46.090
  • months, a few weeks, and when
  • 00:25:46.090 --> 00:25:47.260
  • they see that their lives have
  • 00:25:47.260 --> 00:25:49.010
  • changed, then their families get
  • 00:25:49.010 --> 00:25:50.050
  • - Daniel: Sometimes you'll have
  • 00:25:54.020 --> 00:25:54.220
  • a night where it seems like
  • 00:25:54.220 --> 00:25:56.000
  • nothing's happening.
  • 00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:57.080
  • You know, you get a miracle
  • 00:25:57.080 --> 00:25:58.040
  • here, a miracle there.
  • 00:25:58.040 --> 00:25:59.060
  • And you start to wonder, "Hm, I
  • 00:25:59.060 --> 00:26:00.050
  • wonder if anything was happening
  • 00:26:00.050 --> 00:26:01.160
  • tonight."
  • 00:26:01.160 --> 00:26:02.210
  • But you just trust the Lord with
  • 00:26:02.210 --> 00:26:03.190
  • it and you say, you know, "Lord,
  • 00:26:03.190 --> 00:26:05.030
  • it's you.
  • 00:26:05.030 --> 00:26:05.290
  • It's not me," and you keep
  • 00:26:05.290 --> 00:26:06.250
  • going.
  • 00:26:06.250 --> 00:26:07.170
  • And then the next night, it's
  • 00:26:07.170 --> 00:26:08.210
  • like all heaven breaks loose.
  • 00:26:08.210 --> 00:26:10.290
  • And a lot of the testimonies
  • 00:26:10.290 --> 00:26:12.030
  • that come forward end up telling
  • 00:26:12.030 --> 00:26:13.260
  • you they got healed the previous
  • 00:26:13.260 --> 00:26:14.250
  • night.
  • 00:26:14.250 --> 00:26:16.000
  • And so you never know what's
  • 00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:17.010
  • going on.
  • 00:26:17.010 --> 00:26:17.230
  • What I've discovered is that
  • 00:26:17.230 --> 00:26:18.190
  • faith is trust.
  • 00:26:18.190 --> 00:26:19.230
  • That's what faith is.
  • 00:26:19.230 --> 00:26:20.160
  • It's not just believing God for
  • 00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:21.290
  • a certain outcome.
  • 00:26:21.290 --> 00:26:22.260
  • It's trusting God with any
  • 00:26:22.260 --> 00:26:23.210
  • result.
  • 00:26:23.210 --> 00:26:24.220
  • "Though he slay me, yet will I
  • 00:26:24.220 --> 00:26:25.250
  • trust him."
  • 00:26:25.250 --> 00:26:26.190
  • That's what faith is.
  • 00:26:26.190 --> 00:26:27.230
  • And so when we pray for the
  • 00:26:27.230 --> 00:26:28.240
  • sick, we're not just having
  • 00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:30.160
  • faith that God will heal the
  • 00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:31.150
  • sick.
  • 00:26:31.150 --> 00:26:32.110
  • We're having faith that God will
  • 00:26:32.110 --> 00:26:33.120
  • do what's right and he will do
  • 00:26:33.180 --> 00:26:36.180
  • what's just.
  • 00:26:36.180 --> 00:26:37.220
  • He is just and righteous to
  • 00:26:37.220 --> 00:26:39.230
  • forgive us our sins, to heal us
  • 00:26:39.230 --> 00:26:41.040
  • because of what Jesus did on the
  • 00:26:41.040 --> 00:26:42.090
  • cross.
  • 00:26:42.090 --> 00:26:43.070
  • So we just put our trust in
  • 00:26:43.070 --> 00:26:44.060
  • that.
  • 00:26:44.060 --> 00:26:44.290
  • We do what we're there to do.
  • 00:26:44.290 --> 00:26:45.190
  • We don't think of ourselves as
  • 00:26:45.190 --> 00:26:47.150
  • healers.
  • 00:26:47.150 --> 00:26:48.230
  • We don't think of ourselves as
  • 00:26:48.230 --> 00:26:49.150
  • magicians.
  • 00:26:49.150 --> 00:26:51.060
  • We are ordinary Christians who
  • 00:26:51.060 --> 00:26:53.020
  • are just doing what we're told
  • 00:26:53.020 --> 00:26:54.110
  • to do in Scripture and we trust
  • 00:26:54.110 --> 00:26:55.270
  • God with the results.
  • 00:26:55.270 --> 00:26:57.140
  • And I've heard, you know, I've
  • 00:26:57.140 --> 00:26:58.130
  • heard a lot of people say things
  • 00:26:58.130 --> 00:26:59.130
  • whenever we post miracles
  • 00:26:59.130 --> 00:27:00.250
  • online, I've heard people say
  • 00:27:00.250 --> 00:27:02.030
  • things like, "Well, if you have
  • 00:27:02.030 --> 00:27:03.180
  • this gift, why don't you go into
  • 00:27:03.180 --> 00:27:05.050
  • the hospital and clean the
  • 00:27:05.050 --> 00:27:06.100
  • hospital up?"
  • 00:27:06.100 --> 00:27:07.140
  • And what that shows me, it
  • 00:27:07.140 --> 00:27:08.270
  • betrays a misunderstanding of
  • 00:27:08.270 --> 00:27:11.170
  • what the gifts of the Spirit are
  • 00:27:11.170 --> 00:27:12.180
  • and how they work.
  • 00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:14.120
  • We don't believe that we command
  • 00:27:14.120 --> 00:27:16.000
  • God.
  • 00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:17.090
  • We don't believe that he works
  • 00:27:17.090 --> 00:27:18.070
  • for us, like our employee.
  • 00:27:18.070 --> 00:27:20.090
  • We don't think that we're
  • 00:27:20.090 --> 00:27:21.140
  • something special.
  • 00:27:21.140 --> 00:27:23.010
  • We just do what his Word tells
  • 00:27:23.010 --> 00:27:24.120
  • us to do and we believe what his
  • 00:27:24.120 --> 00:27:25.290
  • verse tells us we should
  • 00:27:25.290 --> 00:27:27.050
  • - Daniel: I remember I was
  • 00:27:29.280 --> 00:27:30.200
  • preaching in Germany and after
  • 00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:31.210
  • one of the meetings, a young man
  • 00:27:31.210 --> 00:27:32.250
  • came up to me with tears in his
  • 00:27:32.250 --> 00:27:33.240
  • eyes.
  • 00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:35.040
  • And he said--he said, "I have
  • 00:27:35.040 --> 00:27:36.150
  • the calling like you have."
  • 00:27:36.150 --> 00:27:38.020
  • He said, "I wanna preach the
  • 00:27:38.020 --> 00:27:39.030
  • gospel to multitudes of people.
  • 00:27:39.030 --> 00:27:40.260
  • But," he said, "my pastor
  • 00:27:40.260 --> 00:27:42.010
  • doesn't believe in me.
  • 00:27:42.010 --> 00:27:43.150
  • My pastor won't give me a
  • 00:27:43.150 --> 00:27:44.070
  • pulpit."
  • 00:27:44.070 --> 00:27:45.210
  • And he said, "What should I do?"
  • 00:27:45.210 --> 00:27:47.010
  • And I said, "You know, I think I
  • 00:27:47.010 --> 00:27:49.000
  • can help you."
  • 00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:50.200
  • And he looked at me with this
  • 00:27:50.200 --> 00:27:52.090
  • hope in his eyes.
  • 00:27:52.090 --> 00:27:54.100
  • I think he thought I was gonna
  • 00:27:54.100 --> 00:27:55.050
  • say, "Come preach in our
  • 00:27:55.050 --> 00:27:56.020
  • crusade."
  • 00:27:56.020 --> 00:27:57.120
  • I said, "I can give you a
  • 00:27:57.120 --> 00:27:58.040
  • pulpit."
  • 00:27:58.040 --> 00:27:59.070
  • I said, "Every street corner is
  • 00:27:59.070 --> 00:28:00.120
  • a pulpit.
  • 00:28:00.120 --> 00:28:02.020
  • Your family is an opportunity to
  • 00:28:02.020 --> 00:28:03.220
  • preach the gospel.
  • 00:28:03.220 --> 00:28:04.230
  • Your friends are an opportunity.
  • 00:28:04.230 --> 00:28:06.170
  • There are pulpits everywhere.
  • 00:28:06.170 --> 00:28:08.120
  • You don't need to wait for a
  • 00:28:08.120 --> 00:28:09.080
  • pastor to give you his
  • 00:28:09.080 --> 00:28:10.060
  • microphone."
  • 00:28:10.060 --> 00:28:11.220
  • The truth is, the Scripture says
  • 00:28:11.220 --> 00:28:12.210
  • that "a man's gift will make
  • 00:28:12.210 --> 00:28:15.130
  • room for him."
  • 00:28:15.130 --> 00:28:16.220
  • So if you feel that you're
  • 00:28:16.220 --> 00:28:17.250
  • called to do something, then you
  • 00:28:17.250 --> 00:28:19.200
  • need to step into it in whatever
  • 00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:21.010
  • way that you can.
  • 00:28:21.010 --> 00:28:22.160
  • Maybe it's big, maybe it's
  • 00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:23.120
  • small, maybe it's glamorous,
  • 00:28:23.120 --> 00:28:25.080
  • maybe it's prestigious.
  • 00:28:25.080 --> 00:28:26.210
  • Maybe nobody notices.
  • 00:28:26.210 --> 00:28:27.170
  • But God will notice.
  • 00:28:27.170 --> 00:28:29.130
  • So if your job is cleaning the
  • 00:28:29.130 --> 00:28:30.170
  • toilet and somebody said, "Well,
  • 00:28:30.170 --> 00:28:31.200
  • clean that toilet with all your
  • 00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:32.290
  • heart," but I would add to it.
  • 00:28:32.290 --> 00:28:34.060
  • I would say, "Clean the back of
  • 00:28:34.060 --> 00:28:35.170
  • the toilet as well as you clean
  • 00:28:35.170 --> 00:28:37.060
  • the front of the toilet 'cause
  • 00:28:37.060 --> 00:28:38.160
  • God is watching and promotes the
  • 00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:40.010
  • - Darren: There is a natural
  • 00:28:45.180 --> 00:28:46.140
  • tendency to equate the size of
  • 00:28:46.140 --> 00:28:48.060
  • something with God's blessing.
  • 00:28:48.060 --> 00:28:50.160
  • But obviously, the bigger
  • 00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:51.240
  • something gets, the more issues
  • 00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:53.190
  • that tend to come up and
  • 00:28:53.190 --> 00:28:54.200
  • problems often surface in areas
  • 00:28:54.200 --> 00:28:56.050
  • we never expected.
  • 00:28:56.050 --> 00:28:58.200
  • I think the question of whether
  • 00:28:58.200 --> 00:28:59.150
  • it's better to be bigger or
  • 00:28:59.150 --> 00:29:00.220
  • smaller, kind of misses the
  • 00:29:00.220 --> 00:29:02.100
  • point.
  • 00:29:02.100 --> 00:29:03.180
  • That we're to do everything with
  • 00:29:03.180 --> 00:29:04.200
  • excellence and that we're to be
  • 00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:06.190
  • good stewards with whatever God
  • 00:29:06.190 --> 00:29:08.150
  • has given us.
  • 00:29:08.150 --> 00:29:10.070
  • Is bigger better?
  • 00:29:10.070 --> 00:29:11.280
  • Maybe yes, maybe no.
  • 00:29:11.280 --> 00:29:14.020
  • At the end of the day, what you
  • 00:29:14.020 --> 00:29:15.110
  • do with what you've been given
  • 00:29:15.110 --> 00:29:17.220